[HN Gopher] Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter ___________________________________________________________________ Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter Author : belter Score : 37 points Date : 2023-09-01 08:07 UTC (14 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.space.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.space.com) | BiteCode_dev wrote: | I'm stunned that there is a not a constant recording of those | bodies, with some image analysis to detect anomalies like this, | done by some university. | dylan604 wrote: | The sky is big. Every telescope that can be used is looking at | something. | thetomcraig wrote: | It's amazing that amateur folks can provide this much insight | these days. I worked at JPL 10 years ago and setup a pipeline for | amateur Jupiter astronomers to get their images to JPL/NASA. | Basically JPL figured out that these people were consistently | producing such high quality data, that NASA could take advantage | of it for the Juno mission. Glad to see this in the news :). | dylan604 wrote: | It makes sense seeing that NASA/JPL only have so many | instruments pointing at Jupiter at any time. That number is | dwarfed by the number of amateurs looking at it on any night. | It also helps that it's one of the easiest things to view. | beebeepka wrote: | What does one need to look at Jupiter, visible light or not? | And how much would it cost to have a setup that I can feed | some sky coordinates and enjoy the feed/s on a screen. | | Any useful software that also happens to be free and/or open | source? I just realized I don't know anything about this | fascinating stuff | dylan604 wrote: | There's lots of really good options available now at some | very affordable prices. There's quite a few reflectors in | the 6"-8" size that are very small and easy to set up. | Because the planets are so much brighter, especially the | moon, than deep sky objects, all of the tracking and image | stacking software is not necessary to start. There are | scopes now that come with a mobile app and a built in | camera. | | Because I don't have hands on experience with anything | other than my gear, I can't really recommend specific | models. Celestron would be a good safe starting point. The | magazine/sites from places like Sky&Telescope or BBC Sky at | Night, will publish reviews of new gear ranging from | "baby's first scope" to as much money as you have. | | https://skyandtelescope.org/ | | https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/ | belter wrote: | https://twitter.com/MASA_06R/status/1696613936534360293?ref_... | tetris11 wrote: | If you can, you should: | | https://nitter.net/MASA_06R/status/1696613936534360293 | jebarker wrote: | It seems fairly frequent that amateurs observe large impacts on | Jupiter. Presumably they would be devastating impacts if they hit | Earth. Is the reason we don't get them frequently on Earth | because of the size difference (11X smaller than Jupiter) or | we're somehow protected by location? | zmmmmm wrote: | that was the most interesting part in the last paragraph to me: | | > The gas giant is considered to play a big role in protecting | the inner solar system from asteroids and comets by attracting | and absorbing impacts or flinging potentially dangerous objects | further out into the solar system | | It's fascinating to think how many factors have come together | to make life on earth so particularly viable. Even with this | "protection" we've had major catastrophic events that nearly | wiped out all advanced forms of life. | Waterluvian wrote: | The answer is in the sub-headline: "This gas giant regularly | absorbs hits from comets and asteroids, protecting inner solar | system worlds." | | It's a really cool concept, though it's not settled science: | https://earthsky.org/space/is-it-true-that-jupiter-protects-... | | It's interesting to consider that a Kepler planet may also | require larger mass planets further out to perform a similar | role. | sillysaurusx wrote: | I once heard that Jupiter protects us because it's so massive | that it catches rocks that would otherwise come towards us. No | idea if that's true, but it makes for a nice story about the | silent gassy protector. | pohl wrote: | Would there be any interesting science to be had if we sent | something to orbit Jupiter that could wait for, detect, and get | us closer readings/views of such impacts? | stouset wrote: | I'm sure there would be _some_ but of course those resources | are an opportunity cost for potentially more-valuable science | performed elsewhere. | JacobAldridge wrote: | I was only 12 when Shoemaker-Levy banged into Jupiter in 1994, so | wiser minds or those with better memories may correct me. | | At the time, the leading theory for what killed the dinosaurs was | still quite terrestrial - volcanos and climate change. | | There was increasing evidence for the meteorite impact theory, | but a big block was "Space is big, outside the early formation of | the Solar System comets and asteroids don't just slam into | planets". | | Then comet Shoemaker-Levy showed us that they actually do, | perhaps still quite frequently, with Jupiter playing an imperfect | shield for Earth. It was one of the last roadblocks to the now- | widely accepted impact theory (still not 'solved' of course, and | perhaps only part of the extinction puzzle). | | Dinosaurs were back in the zeitgeist thanks to _Jurassic Park_ | (1993), but Shoemaker-Levy and the impact theory gave us the 1998 | twin movies _Armageddon_ and (the better of the two, imho) _Deep | Impact_. | dylan604 wrote: | Was that really the leading theory you were taught? If you were | 12, I'm <10 years older, and even then I distinctly remember | the asteroid theory being taught as what wiped out the | dinosaurs. Climate change is kind of given after that, but the | asteroid was taught as _the_ cause. | | There's been a few "big one" theories I've heard about. The | impending California earthquake is a popular one, but I'm | familiar with super volcanoes and asteroids too from childhood. | davesque wrote: | Yeah, I remember the same. I was 13 in 1994 and I remember | the impact theory being taught as _the_ cause well before the | Shoemaker-Levy impact. | Archelaos wrote: | A single event like the Shoemaker-Levy 9 impact does not tell | us much about frequencies on its own. Besides, the original | width of Shoemaker-Levy 9 was estimated to have been between | 1.5 to 2 km.[1] The Chicxulub meteorite was estimated to have | been between 10 and 80 km wide.[2] And it happened around 65 | million years ago. So frequencies then and frequencies now | might be quite different. That meteorite impacts happen from | time to time on earth was nothing controversial. The question | was, whether there had been a (very rare) hugh impact, large | enough at the time of the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event | and whether this was the only cause for all those extinctions. | This is a very complex scenario and several of its details are | still debated today.[3] | | The most important evidence that an impact was the main cause | of the extinction event was provided by the discovery of the | Chicxulub crater in 1990/91. However, the investigation of this | and other evidence is still ongoing. Contrary to popular | belief, scientific debates of this magnitude are not resolved | by a single ingenious theory or observation. It is the hard | work of many, many people over years and decades that gradually | changes and refines the web of belief of a scientific | community. | | [1] https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroids-comets-and- | meteors/co... | | [2] https://arxiv.org/abs/1403.6391 | | [3] Wikipedia offers summaries of some alternative hypotheses, | showing how complex the arguments are: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_e... | njarboe wrote: | Alvarez et al., 1980 [1] was the paper that convinced most | geologists that the extinction was caused by an asteroid impact | [source, PhD in Earth Science]. They found a layer of clay with | very high iridium concentration at the K-T boundary in multiple | locations. Some asteroids have high iridium concentrations | relative to the Earth's crust so an impact of a large one would | leave this signal all over the Earth. | | Wikipedia has an interesting timeline of theories for the K-T | extinction (now called the K-P which is not as cool a name), | but strangely does has a link to this paper[1]. | | [1]https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.208.4448.109 | ... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Cretaceous%E2% | 80%9... | | Paper's Abstract Platinum metals are depleted in the earth's | crust relative to their cosmic abundance; concentrations of | these elements in deep-sea sediments may thus indicate influxes | of extraterrestrial material. Deep-sea limestones exposed in | Italy, Denmark, and New Zealand show iridium increases of about | 30, 160, and 20 times, respectively, above the background level | at precisely the time of the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinctions, | 65 million years ago. Reasons are given to indicate that this | iridium is of extraterrestrial origin, but did not come from a | nearby supernova. A hypothesis is suggested which accounts for | the extinctions and the iridium observations. Impact of a large | earth-crossing asteroid would inject about 60 times the | object's mass into the atmosphere as pulverized rock; a | fraction of this dust would stay in the stratosphere for | several years and be distributed worldwide. The resulting | darkness would suppress photosynthesis, and the expected | biological consequences match quite closely the extinctions | observed in the paleontological record. One prediction of this | hypothesis has been verified: the chemical composition of the | boundary clay, which is thought to come from the stratospheric | dust, is markedly different from that of clay mixed with the | Cretaceous and Tertiary limestones, which are chemically | similar to each other. Four different independent estimates of | the diameter of the asteroid give values that lie in the range | 10 +- 4 kilometers. | scns wrote: | Scary Stuff: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zNuT4dbdjU | | Big thank You to Jupiter for swallowing explosions roughly half | the size of earth (hyperbole maybe?) and stay fine while doing | so | trilbyglens wrote: | This is totally going to be my old man hobby. | dylan604 wrote: | It's sad it has to be this way. I have a telescope with a | smaller telescope for tracking. I have the motorized equatorial | mount. I have the gear to connect the mount and smaller scope | with a camera to my laptop. I have the software to control them | for precise tracking. I have the camera to attach to the main | telescope. I have the stacking software. I don't have the luck | of being free when the seeing is great, and have the | unfortunate luck of always being available when the seeing is | for shite. | | Edit: my "old man" plans are to buy some property well outside | of light pollution. that way i can just do my hobby any night | there's clear skies | | Edit2: there's a site in New Mexico[0] where a group has | purchased some land strategically where they are at a bit of | altitude, and have more nights than not of clear skies. They've | it up so that you can CoLo your astro gear there, and they | provided a remote connection so you can do everything remotely. | For a small nominal monthly fee of course. This is my "pre-old | man" plan B to research, but I feel my stuff my be too | amateurish for this | | [0]https://nmskies.com/newmexicosite.html | goodbyesf wrote: | > Edit: my "old man" plans are to buy some property well | outside of light pollution. | | I've always wonder how feasible it was to do astronomy by | boat? That way you can chase clear skies. And I'd suspect | there is almost no light pollution out in the deep blue sea. | jebarker wrote: | A good place to consider for your property purchase is the | area around Crestone, CO. It was recently designated a Dark | Sky Sanctuary. It's near some great hiking, Sand Dunes | National Park and good skiing. Also, it has the only legal | funeral pyre in the USA. [1] | | As for the remote sites in New Mexico, I've looked into | renting telescope time or remotely locating my | astrophotography gear but I just feel like I'd be losing | something from the hobby if it didn't require me to be hands | on with the gear and outside. | | [1] https://crestoneendoflifeproject.org/services/open-air- | crema... | dylan604 wrote: | There's a group about 4 hours from Dallas called 3 Rivers | Foundation (www.3rf.org) that has been buying up land in | the county. The last time I was there, they were trying to | get their campus (700+ acres at that time) designated as a | dark sky location too. They are also attempting to increase | their acreage to help keep it that way. There's a state | park Copper Breaks that has the darkest skies of any state | park (caveat being Big Bend is a national park) in the same | area. | | >I just feel like I'd be losing something | | Spend enough cold nights outside, and you'll get really | fuzzy to the remote concept! There have been nights where | it was so cold, that once the rig was running, everyone | just hangs out inside where it's warm with a periodic | jaunts outside just to check on things. | | Edit: I had to look up some details. At one of the post | facilities I once worked, I met John Davis of Jimmy Neutron | fame. He's a big astrophotography buff as well. While we | were in the color session waiting for some renders to | finish, he showed me his remote setup. He can log in and | view some cameras to ensure it is safe to open up for | observing. He can tell it what to observe in a set it and | forget it manner. At the end, it is scripted to process the | images and email it to him for review. That's exactly how | I'd spend my Hollywood earnings too if I ever had any. I | can't remember if he was the person I learned about 3rf | from or if it was another client. But yeah, it's a pick | your mouth up from the floor and wipe the drool off your | face before you look like a fool. He said that's not the | first time it's happened to him. Very cool cat. | [deleted] ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-09-01 23:01 UTC)