[HN Gopher] The B Lane Swimmer
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       The B Lane Swimmer
        
       Author : Schiphol
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2023-09-02 07:29 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (holly.witteman.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (holly.witteman.ca)
        
       | elchief wrote:
       | similar to https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/thoughtful-
       | animal/why-b...
       | 
       | "Why Bronze Medalists Are Happier Than Silver Winners"
        
       | fgblanch wrote:
       | I've observed the same pattern in corporate world with folks
       | which are close to promotion stage. Nice people suddenly become
       | bitter and very hard to work with. Only the best stay nice.
        
       | booleandilemma wrote:
       | It's because everyone knows the A's are A's, so they don't have
       | any problem being nice, sharing tips, helping others along.
       | 
       | The B's are trying to become A's. Maybe they even think they're
       | _better_ than the A 's, but their skill isn't acknowledged. The
       | _last_ thing they need is some dumb C coming up and competing
       | with them as another B. Better to kick the C 's to the curb.
       | 
       | Meanwhile the A's don't care, they're on top, after all, and life
       | is good - let me share that blog post on clean code I saw the
       | other day to my team's channel.
        
       | pedalpete wrote:
       | I think this is tied to the 90% effort model (which I thought was
       | attributed to Carl Lewis, but I can't find a source).
       | 
       | The A group are pushing themselves, but they have a confidence of
       | being at the top of the pack, and that slight bit of relaxation
       | that lets their body flow freely through the water.
       | 
       | The B group are striving and pushing and tense, putting 100%
       | effort in all the time to try to get to the A group. This extra
       | tension in their body is actually slowing them down. But from a
       | mental state, it is also putting them in a position of excessive
       | competitiveness. They are more focused on beating the other
       | swimmers to get into the A group.
       | 
       | The A group aren't trying to beat the other swimmers in the A
       | group. They are trying to beat themselves. They want the other
       | swimmers to be better, in order to push themselves to be better.
       | 
       | The C group know they are in the bottom half, and have very
       | little to gain from hyper-competitiveness. Might as well get
       | along with everyone.
       | 
       | The D group are just happy to be there.
        
       | Affric wrote:
       | This is a well documented phenomenon in mammalian social systems.
       | 
       | Second from the top in the hierarchy is the most stressful (as
       | measured in cortisol). It's 99% of the stress of the top with
       | none of the benefit.
        
       | version_five wrote:
       | Just thinking about this, I feel like it maps well to skill level
       | driven stuff - you have recreational people who are easy going,
       | those at the top who are secure, and the "petty little men" (to
       | borrow from my experience with my high school teachers) who have
       | a chip on their shoulder and something to prove.
       | 
       | I don't think it maps entirely to business / work though, where
       | you can find insecure jerks at the highest levels. I was thinking
       | about the *Gervais* "psychopath, confused, losers" framework that
       | largely makes sense to me, and how the lanes would map. I don't
       | think it's 1:1, as in the psychopaths are notionally the A-laners
       | but they can still be insecure and jerks. The confused are
       | probably the B-laners, though it's not clear they're all petty
       | little men. And I think the losers map to the C and D just fine
       | (note if you aren't familiar with the framework, losers isn't
       | meant to be derogatory).
       | 
       | https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
       | 
       | Anyway, just my initial thought.
       | 
       | Edit: I suppose it's a stereotype more than an iron law, there
       | are presumably jerk A-laners and nice B-laners.
        
       | xhkkffbf wrote:
       | A friend tells me that performance enhancing drug use is pretty
       | common on the high amateur, almost pro level of bicycling. These
       | are folks who are very good and obsessed with the sport, but not
       | at the pro level. But there's also no testing at many of their
       | races so they can get away with the PED use.
       | 
       | No one is really sure what to do because these dedicated semi-
       | pros pay lots of fees to support the races. If they're a bit
       | strict on PED use, the registrations could really drop off. But
       | on the flip side, the PED use drives away others who are
       | competing fairly but just not ready to submit their body to all
       | of those extra chemicals.
        
       | buran77 wrote:
       | When you're the best (A lane) it's easy to be magnanimous or
       | nice. Your reward was the win and that gives you all the peace of
       | mind needed for this.
       | 
       | When you're the average or below average (C or D lanes) it's just
       | as easy to be nice. Being far from the top means the competitive
       | pressure is not as taxing and maybe even the effort is lower. In
       | those lanes if you feel the pressure to be the best you can
       | either become the best (winning is the reward), or learn to deal
       | with it and "take it easy" (playing the game is the reward), or
       | since you're pretty far from the top you can give up to relieve
       | the pressure (not feeling the pressure is the reward).
       | 
       | But the B lane can be a bit of hell. You are competitive, you are
       | so close to the top, and yet so far. Becoming the best is hard,
       | giving up is just as hard, and learning to live with this "close
       | but no cigar" situation is hard. Second best is the worst place
       | to be. Almost all of the effort and qualifications, none of the
       | laurels. The most frustrating position. Nobody remembers the
       | second best. All that might build up to a less than pleasant
       | attitude.
       | 
       | Once you see it you recognize it all over the place. The player
       | from the winning team offers to help his opponent up but never
       | the other way around. The second best student is always far less
       | happy than the one who just passed by the skin of their teeth.
       | The candidate who won an election shakes his opponent's hand
       | while the opponent is broken.
        
         | 23090jfd wrote:
         | I guess I'll be honest with myself and say I'm probably the
         | equivalent of the B lane swimmer in a certain area. Some might
         | say I'm A but maybe there's always an A lane where you're B? I
         | guess it depends on your goals; most of life isn't reduced to a
         | single clear metric like speed.
         | 
         | One of the things I find frustrating in this particular area --
         | and maybe not all areas are like this -- is how much things
         | like luck and questionable ethics separates A from B. I don't
         | mean to suggest all of it is like that, or that A people are
         | all unethical people who stumbled on their fortune by chance,
         | but a lot of the differences between A and B that I see are due
         | to things like B people being especially unlucky at where they
         | landed their first job, or A people being especially lucky, or
         | A people in fact being pretty ethically sketchy or outright
         | corrupt about certain things. So I tend to get especially angry
         | when I see these relatively big consequences from differences
         | that don't really matter, or the differences aren't actually
         | present, or people in the area professionally pretend all this
         | stuff isn't going even though everyone wholly acknowledges in
         | private it is.
         | 
         | So the more I think about it, the more I'm not really sure the
         | swimming analogy is entirely apt. There you have a pretty clear
         | criterion, and it's all about what lane you're in. In life, the
         | criteria might differ from person to person, the lanes come
         | with major consequences, and there's plenty of chances to game
         | the criteria where they do exist. It's like if which lane you
         | were in was determined by a lifeguard with a timer, but the
         | swimming time differences between lanes were smaller than the
         | error tolerance of the timing devices, and a majority of
         | swimmers (but not all) were bribing the lifeguards for lanes.
         | 
         | The way in which the comparison is apt is that as you get "up"
         | the lanes, the more and more stressful it gets, until you cash
         | out or get a secure position or whatever, when it becomes worth
         | it, whatever "it" is. So you're sensitive to BS until it
         | doesn't matter because you've already got yours. As you go
         | down, you're surrounded by people who don't really give a damn
         | about trying to go up, it's just not a concern of theirs. So
         | superficially the pattern of stress is probably similar. But in
         | general, I'm not sure it's really the same processes causing
         | that stress.
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | C probably feels spiritually close to D. B is scared anyone from
       | C or D can shoot past them. Most A fear nothing from a C or a D
       | and probably a B but exposed to the competitive edge of a B may
       | act differently to them?
       | 
       | On this topic of toxic (or not: you decide) competitiveness "The
       | master of Go" by Kawabata is a good read. Or "the Glass Bead
       | Game" by Hermann Hesse
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-02 23:00 UTC)