[HN Gopher] 'Psychonauts' by Mike Jay review
___________________________________________________________________
'Psychonauts' by Mike Jay review
Author : prismatic
Score : 78 points
Date : 2023-09-03 05:08 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.historytoday.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.historytoday.com)
| whimsicalism wrote:
| Maybe it's just because I have moved to the West coast but it
| seems we are in a localized upswing of exploration of
| psychedelics.
| barnabee wrote:
| From where I'm sitting it doesn't appear to be localised.
| WallyFunk wrote:
| I recall Terrence McKenna (everyone's favorite historical
| psychonaut) saying "It's hard to do psychedelics". I agree with
| him. These things are dangerous when the set and setting is
| wrong, or if they're done at an off-kilter phase of your life, or
| that you simply over-indulge in them.
|
| I appreciate the mini renaissance period they're having these
| days, but these things need plenty of research before trying
| them. They're not something you do for a giddy high, they're
| tools. One thing people need to do is integrate the various
| lessons they've gained from tripping into their daily lives.
|
| All too often, trips are like dreams, they fade and we suffer
| amnesia after trying them. It's crucial to take notes and
| integrate the ideas you've gained, otherwise you've wasted the
| trip(s) IMHO.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| This sounds like the usual covert anti-drugs post that comes up
| every time, with sloppy claims and a total absence of facts.
|
| > or that you simply over-indulge in them
|
| duh. What isn't dangerous if you're stupid.
|
| > They're not something you do for a giddy high
|
| Weasel words 'giddy'. And I do use them precisely for a high.
|
| > One thing people need to do is integrate the various lessons
| they've gained from tripping into their daily lives.
|
| what does this mean and how do i do it? (serious question)
|
| > All too often, trips are like dreams, they fade and we suffer
| amnesia after trying them
|
| who is 'we' here, the entire user-base? And I've never heard of
| this effect, ever.
| fidrelity wrote:
| 'Assume good faith' is part of the HN guidelines.
|
| Not OP, but as someone who had his first trip a couple of
| months ago, I can relate to a couple of points you're calling
| out.
|
| Regarding integration: I have had appointments with a
| therapist specialised on integrating peak experiences and for
| me what worked was to have someone to discuss and extract
| meaning and insights from the trip and find 'hooks' how to
| make them part of daily life.
|
| Regarding the amnesia, I can also relate. I still remember
| the insights, the lessons, the characters and the meaning of
| my trip. But it gets harder and harder to connect to the
| feelings of the trip, which in turn make the insights less
| 'sticky'.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| Hi, thanks. I try to assume good faith but when the same
| kind of posts keep appearing, opinionated, fact free and
| making dubious claims which they won't back up when asked,
| I start to doubt.
|
| Someone elsewhere on this thread described integration. For
| myself when I've experienced it it's a kind of deep sea-
| change in my mind, no therapy or reflection required.
| Something changes, snap, and I'm a newer person.
|
| Thanks about the amnesia, no experience of this nor ever
| heard of it but I'm glad someone could verify it.
| tasty_freeze wrote:
| "Integration" is a very common term so it should be easy to
| read a better description that I'm about to give. My take on
| it is that integration is the process of reflecting on one's
| experience and figuring out what it means for your real life.
|
| For instance, say someone is burdened with thoughts of self-
| hatred due to growing up with critical and non-supportive
| parents. Although they can intellectually entertain the
| thought that the self-hatred is due to this, under the
| influence of psychedelics, they might viscerally feel the
| truth of it. When sober again, integration means taking that
| insight and working on changing your mindset to align with
| that new belief.
|
| There are plenty of examples of the flip side too, eg,
| someone with a string of bad relationships might, under the
| influence, really see that they themselves are the main cause
| of the failures. But an insight isn't enough. Integration is
| making changes in sober life to change things in the positive
| direction.
|
| Or maybe your life is going great, you take psychedelics, and
| you have a hard trip that is filled with morbid thoughts
| about sickness and death. It can be interpreted as an
| indication that those thoughts are present but subconscious
| even in sober life, and maybe it is worth investigating more
| via conventional means.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| Actually some of that rings a bell, so thank you for
| explaining. I believe what I've experienced is that but
| it's not so much an insight that needs analysing so much as
| having the obviousness of it thrust in your face. In my
| case, no analysis needed, but I am of course speaking only
| for myself.
| Gerard0 wrote:
| As someone who almost always tries to "use" substances in this
| way, I think it's also perfectly fine to do it just "to have
| fun", party or whatever.
|
| The experience itself is not to be disdained and not every trip
| has to be like this.
| samstave wrote:
| The biggest issue is to ensure you have good mental health/life
| situations...
|
| There have been times I've been super depressed and people
| recommend mushrooms, which I've done my fair share when I was
| younger and didn't do mushrooms for almost 25 years...
|
| I wanted to do some but I was too depressed, and while it was
| recommended for depression, I know my relationship with
| mushrooms, and I know when I am not in a place to do them.
|
| They need to be taken with an open happy heart, or focus and
| desire for such. They are no good if you're going to dwell on
| the negative aspects of your path - take the negative from an
| objective observation, and heal.
| abyssin wrote:
| I wonder if there exists a framework for integration that
| follows a rational approach. Psychology in general is a field
| full of esoteric and hardly scientific approaches. What I found
| about its psychedelic subfield is even worse. Behind a facade
| of science, it's still very much New Age stuff. I had a
| psychedelic experience in a group setting with people that are
| supposedly experienced and knowledgeable about the science. It
| was actually worse than when I tripped alone and integration
| has been hard.
|
| Does anyone know of a rational technique or theory to do the
| integration work?
| jurynulifcation wrote:
| I'm a psychedelics enjoyer. imo, the only good knowledge of
| the science we currently have stops at the level of
| chemistry. We know what these molecules look like. Sometimes
| we have a good idea of what their action in the body is,
| including the brain. After that, imo, the "science" breaks
| down. In large part because it's so particular to the
| individual. I don't think we yet have a rational framework
| for radically deconstructing and reconstructing something so
| idiosyncratic as the subjective experience. Not one that well
| transcends the borders of individuality and
| intersubjectivity, that can be readily applied by all people
| (or even all types of people). I think we solidly enter the
| realm of philosophy... to my mind, the employment of
| psychedelics is most profitable when seen as a different
| facet of the art of living with yourself well.
| swayvil wrote:
| It's like we're in the Matrix.
|
| And the Matrix is a little island in the middle of a big ocean.
|
| Tripping, meditating, dreaming and a hundred other methods will
| get you into the ocean. Show it to you, splash around the
| shoreline, go for a swim, meet the people who live there...
|
| I've tripped some. Psilocybin is my favorite psychedelic
| substance.
|
| My favorite method is Vipassana meditation.
|
| (Also, is it just me or is the psychedelic culture markedly saner
| than the meditation culture?)
| mettamage wrote:
| Seems we enjoy similar things :)
|
| My last psilocybin trip taught me how to sleep better by
| showing how I should focus on my body sensations when I feel
| restless. I should tense and stretch, that's what I noticed
| during my trip.
|
| Disclaimer: I took them in Amsterdam, truffles are
| decriminalized there.
| abyssin wrote:
| For having dabbed into both, I'm not sure psychedelic culture
| is better. The promises of psychedelics are higher and in my
| case the hopes were higher too, so it took me longer to
| acknowledge the issues with that culture. But many prominent
| people lie about their respect for science, and in the end I
| doubt there are fundamental differences with the field of
| meditation.
| swayvil wrote:
| Not better, saner. By saner I mean they seem to be more
| organized and grounded.
|
| I mean look at Erowid. Here's the method : here's the report.
| We have some pudding, we have some proof. Straightforward as
| heck.
|
| Whereas the meditation scene seems to be full of grifters,
| dogmatists and hand-wavers.
|
| The psychedelic culture has a substance in hand. If the
| substance is bunk then that becomes apparent pretty quick.
| Solid evidence. Good science.
|
| Whereas the meditation scene has a thousand methods and if it
| doesn't work for you... well.. maybe you are doing it wrong,
| or maybe you need to try another app subscription...
|
| (not to say that there aren't some very straightforward
| meditation techniques that pay off quick.)
| krzat wrote:
| I do metta. I'm still wondering if meditation makes you a
| gullible crystal buying idiot, or does it just attract such
| people.
| swayvil wrote:
| Well it's a pretty good story surrounding meditation : what
| mediation can do for you, the philosophies about it, sounds
| kinda like magic, etc.
|
| Which would attract story-lovers. And might lead them to
| approach it from the story-end first (rather than seeking
| some more solid to work with). Which could be a problem.
| [deleted]
| jurynulifcation wrote:
| I see people giving prescriptions in this comment section. I am
| but a humble seeker. I can not claim to give anyone access to the
| best knowledge, or even lasting knowledge. Neither, I believe,
| can any of our fellow commenter. Anyone saying "you must
| integrate these lessons," or "ignore all else and read these
| books," are not wrong. They are giving advice that, to them,
| sounds good and wholesome. Perhaps they are.
|
| However, I would push back against such dogma (and it is dogma
| even if it is only propagated by a single individual). Here are
| some of my own personal lessons from my psychedelic explorations:
|
| Do what you are curious about, no more and no less.
|
| Listen to the advice of your peers. Take it as freely as they
| give it. Yet, if you find no sense in it, also know you are not
| bound by it.
|
| Be curious. Explore and research the things you do to your body,
| to the best of your ability, before you do them.
|
| Keep an open mind and an open heart.
|
| Beyond a wholesome discipline, be kind to yourself. You are a
| child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars. You
| have a right to be here. (Max Ehrmann, Desiderata)
|
| Finally, I believe my best approach to the psychedelic experience
| is to treat it as a new aspect of philosophy. To me, it is about
| the art of living well with myself.
|
| I love all you people. Be safe and be kind.
| username135 wrote:
| There's a fairly popular onion domain called Psychonaughts wiki
| that delves into a lot of drugs and their effects, history, etc.
| Interesting read for sure.
|
| Dark Fail has the most current link since it changes so
| frequently.
| janderland wrote:
| There is also something like this accessible on the light web:
| https://m.psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
| username135 wrote:
| Ya, I think it's the same one. Didn't realize it was also on
| the clear net
| srge wrote:
| Erowid is also a great ressource to when using psychoactive
| drugs.
|
| https://www.erowid.org/
| bluepod4 wrote:
| [flagged]
| BHSPitMonkey wrote:
| Did you mean to post that on a different thread?
| bluepod4 wrote:
| No. There is/was another post on the front page about the
| SAG-AFTRA strike related to voice acting and its relevance to
| gameplay. I wanted someone who has played Psychonauts (more
| than I have) to give their opinion about the voice acting in
| this game lol.
| Sebguer wrote:
| ... This isn't about the game, it's about psychedelics, the
| drugs.
| bluepod4 wrote:
| Hilarious. Yes, I didn't click on the article.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| If you find this topic interesting ignore everything in the above
| post and get yourself a copy of:
|
| Plants of the Gods: Their Sacred, Healing, and Hallucinogenic
| Powers by Richard Evans Schultes (Author), Albert Hofmann
| (Author), Christian Ratsch (Author)
| nico wrote:
| For the ones who might not know, Albert Hofmann discovered LSD
| anon____ wrote:
| He wrote another book about that, titled "LSD -- My Problem
| Child".
|
| https://maps.org/images/pdf/books/lsdmyproblemchild.pdf.
| neom wrote:
| Couple of additional great reads around the subject:
|
| The Doors of Perception - Aldous Huxley
|
| Food of the Gods - Terrence McKenna.
|
| And honestly reading Erowid trip report is super
| interesting/fun (especially DMT! Heh).
| c420 wrote:
| And PiHKAL (Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved): A
| Chemical Love Story by Drs. Alexander & Ann Shulgin
| bozhark wrote:
| Also TIHKAL: The Continuation is a 1997 book written by
| Alexander Shulgin and Ann Shulgin about a family of
| psychoactive drugs known as tryptamines. A sequel to
| PIHKAL: A Chemical Love Story, TIHKAL is an acronym that
| stands for "Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved"
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiHKAL#:~:text=TIHKAL%3A%20
| T....
| max_ wrote:
| I have searched for an EPUB copy and unfortunately I can only
| get Richard Evan's "Where the Gods Reign: Plants and Peoples of
| the Colombian"
| ngai_aku wrote:
| Appears to be on Anna's Archive if you're still looking
| max_ wrote:
| Such a great resource. Thanks.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Do they cover datura?
| capableweb wrote:
| In my experience, Datura isn't something I'd use for healing,
| it's something I'd use to break down myself. The experience
| with that is unlike others, and not in a good way.
| c420 wrote:
| I'd liken it to the salvia experience.
| jurynulifcation wrote:
| I'd respectfully disagree. For the first part, datura is
| an anticholinergic neurotoxin, a deliriant. Salvia is a
| kappa-opioid dissociative, without any known toxicities.
| The important thing to keep in mind with salvia is
| minimalism. It has no tolerance to speak of, so nothing
| is lost by starting small, well smaller than you know
| will give noticeable effect. Then build up from there.
| (An effect of salvia overdose is 'automatic action',
| where your body moves on impulse without the intervention
| of your waking mind)
| amts wrote:
| Though toxicity seems the main difference, comment above
| is talking about experience and not molecular mechanisms
| of action.
|
| In a similar vein, if someone would ask a distinguished
| professor of neuroscience to provide a full description
| of the exact brain molecular state that "generates" an
| exact salvia experience (including any communicative
| content), s/he would fail.
| capableweb wrote:
| > Though toxicity seems the main difference, comment
| above is talking about experience and not molecular
| mechanisms of action.
|
| As someone who has done both, in similar settings, I'd
| still disagree with this. Datura was devilish like none
| other and probably one of the few psychedelics I'd never
| do again.
| amts wrote:
| Datura being anticholinergic degrades the effect of
| acetylcholine, which is one of the components of
| (regular) attention. So no wonder it seems scary. But
| would you have the same experience after, for example, 10
| days of continuous mindfulness/focusing meditation? Or
| after 30 days?
| neom wrote:
| Datura is a deliriant. I'm a strong advocate of psychedelics
| and have used almost everything, but Datura isn't something
| people should touch, it's very dangerous.
| amts wrote:
| >>Datura is a deliriant.
|
| Such definition includes very little context. You should
| try more functional, mindful set&setting based approaches.
| neom wrote:
| Here is some context:
|
| https://www.bionity.com/en/encyclopedia/Psychedelics%2C_d
| iss...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliriant
| amts wrote:
| Cocaine is anesthetic in one context and stimulant in
| another. Meth can be sedative in specific contexts
| (according to dr. Andrew Weil). The classification above
| may be partially useful, but obviously not effective.
| Nursie wrote:
| Read the repair trip reports for datura, brugmansia and
| belladonna.
|
| I'm fascinated by the breadth of different experiences
| offered by plant and chemical mind alteration, and
| encountered more things than most people have heard of.
| Reading those reports was enough to make me not want to seek
| out these deleriants in any way at all.
| braislen wrote:
| [dead]
| [deleted]
| Jerrrry wrote:
| DMT only lasts 10-15 minutes, and will be so overpowering,
| glorious, and delightful, that one can only compare it to losing
| one's virginity, or being born again.
|
| Mushrooms and LSD are way too longer/overrated and I fear those
| who haven't further explored the latent chemical/consciousness
| space misrepresent the dimension that, quite frankly, BETTER
| chemicals have to offer.
|
| Dont do shrooms, 4acoDMT is far superior.
|
| Dont do acid( edit: alone for the first time), at least not
| without taking a xanax (edit: read: or being in a well-intended
| state of mind) first.
|
| DMT will sidestep all that.
|
| iykyk, yk?
| Euphorbium wrote:
| Mushrooms are incredibly varied, and I feel you just have not
| experienced good/strong mushrooms. I had trips which were
| indistinguishable from dmt.
| Jerrrry wrote:
| I have, which is why I recommend beginners to NOT start with
| anything above a microdose of shrooms.
|
| If you think tripping at near-DMT levels for that duration is
| something a noobie should experience, please do not trip sit
| or further give shamanic/healer advice.
|
| Shrooms, especially alone, is the worst thing a beginner
| could start with, exactly because the potency between stems
| right next to each other vary wildy.
|
| 15mg of volumetrically dosed 4acoDMT with a -zolam is
| perfect, with no stomach pains because there is no
| metabolizing needed, it is a direct prodrug of psilocybin.
| Little body load, less mental, more visual.
|
| It's a shame that, what, 6+ generations of synthetic
| awesomeness are suppressed because people think "shrooms" are
| more "organic and natural"
| jurynulifcation wrote:
| I do agree with the principle of minimalism. Great idea.
| Big fan of that idea. People should start low and ow. But
| holy shit. Please please please stop recommend
| benzodiazepines so casually.
| Jerrrry wrote:
| >Please please please stop recommend benzodiazepines so
| casually.
|
| benzo's and -olam's are a horrible drug that should not
| be taken except in the most extreme of circumstances - I
| compare it directly with electro shock therapy.
|
| But these contexts are exceptional.
|
| Never redose benzo's or any -zolam's, it will control you
| at a cellular level, that opioids couldn't even begin to.
| deepnotderp wrote:
| 4-aco-Dmt and shrooms are both pro drugs of psilocin so they're
| functionally the same molecule
|
| DMT can be life changing to many people, me being one of them,
| but it's also extremely powerful, scary, and not always a
| positively life changing experience
|
| EDIT: I misinterpreted what you meant by the 4-aco-Dmt comment.
| I actually agree that it's better than actual mushrooms,
| especially for beginners
|
| 2C-B is another less overwhelming option for beginners
| Jerrrry wrote:
| >4-aco-Dmt and shrooms are both pro drugs of psilocin so
| they're functionally the same molecule
|
| except 4acoDMT doesn't have to react with your stomach acids,
| causing other second order effects, which have been
| attributed to the stomach ache, puking, and body load.
|
| >2C-B is another less overwhelming option for beginners
|
| Yes, sad to see it was one of the first things banned.
|
| Far, far more dangerous phenethylamine (25x-NBo(Me|H|T)
| analogs on the spectrum between it and Mescaline are filling
| the void, killing people due to vasoconstriction, and because
| the threshold dose, normal dose, and fatal dose, are only a
| relatively and absolutely small difference.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| I would only recommend shrooms for the beginner.
|
| LSD is way too intense for the casual and DMT imo is scary even
| if it is short.
| Kiboneu wrote:
| Don't take xanax before the trip; and if you are really so
| inclined, just have the proper dosage ready nearby. The trick
| is /knowing/ that you can stop it. But treat it as a last
| resort.
|
| If you let go, the fear will melt away on its own. If it does,
| you'll find a level of peace and clarity. If it doesn't, even a
| bad trip can teach you something, if you step outside your mind
| and observe it like a scientist of yourself. This is part of
| gaining experience. This is part of the point of taking a
| psychedelic in the first place. If you chemically alter the
| fear away, you will never learn this. Start with a small dose,
| in a peaceful setting, with someone you trust who has done it
| before, do not re-dose during your first trip.
|
| Take shrooms or acid if you want to. They are serious drugs but
| akin to a lucid dream, if you believe in the adverse effects
| then they will hold more weight on your psyche. In this sense
| OP's comments are doing a massive disservice.
|
| Go to erowid and study up from there, instead of taking OP's
| obviously projected advice.
|
| (Also, in another comment, OP writes that it is impossible to
| OD on benzos alone, which is false. Judge the quality of the
| information for yourself.)
| Jerrrry wrote:
| You say so much truth just too stumble over semantics, it
| really is hard to assume good faith when you literally
| misquote me.
|
| >if you believe in the adverse effects then they will hold
| more weight on your psyche. In this sense OP's comments are
| doing a massive disservice.
|
| Having a bad DMT trip will leave you with higher cortisol
| levels, and a little shaken, exactly, EXACTLY, like waking up
| from an uncomfortable dream. Having a bad LSD or mushroom
| trip is a magnitude more likely to be adverse in both the
| short and long term.
|
| >it is impossible to OD on benzos alone, which is false.
|
| >It's nearly impossible to kill yourself with it (benzos)
| alone
|
| >nearly.... alone
|
| >alone
|
| Please read the guidelines about bad-faith posting.
|
| Overdosing on Alprazolam without potentiating other
| medications is EXTREMELY uncommon. Look at the stats.
|
| Speaking of stats...
|
| >Go to erowid and study up from there, instead of taking OP's
| obviously projected advice.
|
| And after you've read it, all the anecdotal evidence will
| heavily lean towards my OBVIOUS concise assessment; but, this
| is HN.
|
| Scrape the reports, run it thru your favorite LLVM sentiement
| holistic, make an objective word-map, then tell me, on
| average, that I am not accurate in my obviously condensed
| assessment.
|
| LSD has, almost universally, an uncomfortable come-up, and a
| "burning" cleansing feeling.
|
| Mushrooms, objectively, make your stomach hurt, have body
| load, and can a much larger variance in dosage due to the
| nature of its procurement.
|
| 4acoDMT is better, xan+LSD microdosing is safe, and DMT is,
| without a doubt, the safest, most intense, life-changing,
| one-shot attempt of a awakening, any mortal, experienced or
| not, will ever have the opportunity to exerience.
|
| The list of drugs that exist that I haven't witnessed first
| hand is smaller than those you could name.
|
| Ayahuasca, while we are this note, however, is NOT something
| middle-aged suburbanites should dip their toes in.
|
| That is the equivalent of a DMT trip with the length of heavy
| LSD trip.
|
| THAT is the media and common conceptions yall should
| whitenight about.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| > 4acoDMT is better, xan+LSD microdosing is safe, and DMT
| is, without a doubt, the safest, most intense, life-
| changing, one-shot attempt of a awakening, any mortal,
| experienced or not, will ever have the opportunity to
| exerience.
|
| Benzos are associated with cognitive impairment (we have
| studies for medium and long term users showing cognitive
| impairment even 10 months after discontinuation) and are
| highly addictive. Acute use as you prescribe is "probably
| fine" insofar as we have data to support it but given the
| risk of addiction, no, Xanax is not safe.
|
| Trying to get ahead of a bad trip by taking other drugs is
| generally a _bad idea_.
|
| Yes, there's many other hallucinogens people could be
| taking that would give a better, kinder, more concretely
| messaged trip but they're simply not widely available and
| medical literature on health risks are scarce or in the
| negative.
|
| We know LSD and psilocybin leads directly to neurogenesis
| and that the health risks are minimal, short of a psychotic
| break or delusion leading to the idea one can fly or some
| other risky belief.
|
| https://www.beckleyfoundation.org/2018/06/13/psychedelics-
| pr...
| uoaei wrote:
| DMT is not so docile. It's fucked up at least two people I
| know. Not ayahuasca, just DMT. One of them lived 40 years
| of life, complete with happy marriage, before it was
| violently ripped away from them 15 minutes later in meat-
| time.
|
| The last mushrooms I had gave me no stomach pain and no
| body load. It's fascinating what genetics the growers are
| isolating nowadays.
|
| Methinks your bubble is still a bit small.
| throwaway5948 wrote:
| eh, this post is seriously misguided. the experience on DMT is
| relative; you might feel like you have been gone for days or
| months even if the clock tells you 15 min have gone by.
| furthermore, the power of DMT, with its sudden onset, can feel
| quite violent, literally like a drive-by shooting, or beamed up
| a la Star Trek.
|
| curious people, please look into the concept of "pharmakon";
| the knowledge gained from drug usage often does not come
| without a reciprocal cost, and the sense of elevated
| consciousness can be fraught with illusion and the same old
| tricks of the ego.
|
| I have had many life changing experiences under the influence
| of drugs (one of the most powerful, under the influence of
| DMT), but in my opinion it extremely misguided to recommend it
| wholeheartedly to people without a very strong disclaimer
| regarding its adverse effects.
|
| When I used DMT properly, for the first and last time, I
| experienced temporary ego-death. Afterwards I re-lived "my
| trip" every single night for almost a year, having the same
| dream, over and over again. In my waking hours I would
| sometimes find myself fusing with my environment (real-time
| temporal loss of self) "at one with everything".
|
| Undergoing this process helped me "find myself", but the
| experience was dangerously close to full-blown psychosis -
| tl;dr drugs are a powerful and useful substance, be aware of
| the risks before taking, and do not recommend to others; DYOR
| and decide for yourself.
| jurynulifcation wrote:
| Please don't recommend people take Xanax recreationally.
| Benzodiazepines are fraught with danger. It is not something to
| take lightly. Your experiences are not universalizable. I
| appreciate your insight, and I'm glad you've found substances
| you enjoy. But please refrain from engaging in drug
| exceptionalism. The first and foremost consideration of
| engaging in a substance ought to be harm reduction. This is not
| one of those "iykyk, yk" situations, in my humble opinion.
|
| Also, fun aside: DMT may have interesting anabolic effects. I
| quite enjoy vaping DMT while working out. It helps me engage my
| muscles and mind more fully, and safely, in bodyweight non-
| ballistic exercises.
|
| I hope you have a wonderful day, fellow seeker.
| Jerrrry wrote:
| >Please don't recommend people take Xanax recreationally.
|
| There is no way you could of inferred that from my post in
| good faith.
|
| Do not ever, EVER, give hallucogenic/psychoactive drug, to a
| new-comer, without having a benzo or nerve pill on hand.
|
| Benzo's, when given appropriately, are the only way -
| chemically - to help absolve the uneasiness pre- and post-
| dosing.
|
| Given set and mood are the most paramount factors, it IS
| recommended that those trying substances (esp. tryptamines)
| are in a well mind set when initiating.
|
| Nobody is suggesting taking more than a threshold dose of
| benzo's for recreation. That is a near antithesis of the
| point of these miracle blessings we take for granted.
|
| Although I do appreciate the concern, yes, you SHOULD have a
| chemical emergency exit, especially when initiating those on
| their maiden voyage to the other side of the consciousness
| spectrum.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| Or just take LSD and don't smoke weed - that's what
| generally causes psychic freakouts, in my experience, and
| I've done it over 100 times, no benzos ever.
| DigitalBison wrote:
| If you don't mind my asking, is your caution about
| benzodiazepines out of concern for the addiction potential,
| the long-term effects (e.g. dementia risk), or something else
| (or a combination)?
| Jerrrry wrote:
| Addiction potential, which is contextually oxymoronic.
|
| Everyone knows Xanax and other -zolams will turn you into a
| demented zombie after a few years of (ab?)use.
|
| It's nearly impossible to kill yourself with it (benzos)
| alone, but combinations with any other depressant will
| synergize and potentiate the CNS depressant effect, until
| you black out and stop breathing.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| I don't like this post. As a user of drugs when I can get hold
| of them (and strongly inclined to their legalisation),
| describing something as "overpowering, glorious, and
| delightful" dangerously misrepresent each person's own
| experience. Descriptions like this are bad advertising at best
| and at worst dangerously irresponsible.
|
| I also don't like your personal recommendation of DMT over
| mushrooms. You're not in a position to recommend anything based
| on your personal experience alone, especially when it relates
| to serious legal aspects of non-legal drugs.
|
| Finally, I don't like your recommendation of mixing drugs
| (Xanax and acid). For all I know that could lead to a serious
| interaction.
|
| I don't like this post at all.
| Jerrrry wrote:
| >describing something as "overpowering, glorious, and
| delightful" dangerously misrepresent each person's own
| experience.
|
| It's nnDMT, not 5meoDMT. She will not hurt you, and it is
| literally so overpowering, it is not consciousnessly possible
| to retain one's ego mid trip (except when on stim+disso's :)
| )
|
| >I also don't like your personal recommendation of DMT over
| mushrooms. You're not in a position to recommend anything
| based on your personal experience alone, especially when it
| relates to serious legal aspects of non-legal drugs.
|
| Mushrooms have a duration 50x as long as DMT, and it's not
| "my" personal experience, it is the collective advice of
| those that tread these waters before us, as many will agree.
|
| >Finally, I don't like your recommendation of mixing drugs
| (Xanax and acid). For all I know that could lead to a serious
| interaction.
|
| > For all I know
|
| >I know
|
| you obviously dont. Call dispatch and ask what is the
| procedure for someone tripping on lysergamides - or google
| it.
|
| A threshold, therapeutic, medically-incentivized safe dose of
| .5mg of any -zolam will categorically improve one's mood when
| administered in a safe and relaxing setting - which is the
| most paramount contributing factor to a positive experience
| with these substances.
|
| unless the setting is further provoked - many people get
| angry on -zolams, - in which case, the point is moot; you
| shouldn't be trying to probe the elves on "bad day" anyhow.
|
| No one is gonna rage-hit DMT and do anything, but rage-eating
| "organic natural mushrooms" is how idiots jump out of
| windows.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| > It's nnDMT, not 5meoDMT. _She will not hurt you_
|
| (my emphasis). You irresponsible idiot. That's equivalent
| to saying it's harmless - no drug is, all have risks both
| mental and physical[1] (mental perhaps being the main one
| here, but the almost instant 'lights out' of DMT can cause
| physical injury).
|
| [1] and legal.
| Jerrrry wrote:
| [flagged]
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| I cannot imagine your motivations for writing this. It's
| so offensively bad and inaccurate it defies my
| understanding. It's also dangerous enough to flag, which
| I have.
| Jerrrry wrote:
| If you do DMT three times in a day, you are already
| fucked in the head.
| kortex wrote:
| > LSD will fry your brain. Mushrooms will make you so
| open, your brain falls out.
|
| And DMT doesn't have that risk? Press X to doubt. I've
| done a tremendous amount of research on harm reduction,
| and all sources list a pretty similar risk profile for
| all classical psychedelics. Perhaps DMT administration is
| more self-limiting than other 5-HT2a class drugs, but it
| still very much can cause lasting negative psychological
| effects.
| kortex wrote:
| I think you are missing an incredible amount of context. The
| main takeaways I got from GP's post are:
|
| - psychedelics can be and usually are an incredible life-
| changing experience for the better
|
| - psychedelic-naive users should start with the lowest-
| duration drugs until they know how their body and brain react
| to them
|
| - it's also a really good idea to have an "abort button" on
| hand (xanax/olams. Personally I'd recommend lorazepam, it's
| much safer and milder) if things start to go really south
|
| I understand the concern about polypharmacy, but Benzos and
| psychedelics don't really have adverse interactions. The
| whole point is that benzos can put the kabash on the anxiety
| component of a "bad trip" (they won't _stop_ the trip but
| they will mitigate the potential for psychological injury).
|
| On the other hand, GP is saying things elsewhere in thread
| that feel... insufficiently substantiated, to be generous.
| Jerrrry wrote:
| >On the other hand, GP is saying things elsewhere in thread
| that feel... insufficiently substantiated, to be generous.
|
| >insufficiently substantiated
|
| we are literally talking about effects that cannot, by
| definition, be articulated or substantiated usefully, and
| havent, because of their legalities.
|
| if you are looking for a single sentence to sum it up, I
| don't think I have done an injustice.
|
| LSD and Mushrooms are NOT as "safe" as culturally
| represented.
|
| I don't recommended anyone who is not in the soundest of
| minds to try DMT, without an experienced trip-sitter, and
| an abort -zolam. That is the sentiment I've expressed, to a
| bizarre amount of mis-inference for dubious moral
| grandstanding by those I am sure think that they, too, know
| everything.
| throwaway20222 wrote:
| California bill SB 58 just passed out of the "suspense file," and
| actually has a path to pass.
|
| Summary An act to amend Sections 11054, 11350, 11364, 11364.7,
| 11365, 11377, 11379, 11382, and 11550 of, to add Sections 11350.1
| and 11377.1 to, to add and repeal Section 11214 of, to repeal
| Section 11999 of, and to repeal Article 7 (commencing with
| Section 11390) of Chapter 6 of Division 10 of, the Health and
| Safety Code, relating to controlled substances.
|
| Would move forward access to a subset of these substances in
| California.
|
| Full text of latest version here:
| https://legiscan.com/CA/text/SB58/2023
|
| I am personally strongly in favor of this bill, and more broadly
| decriminalizing a wider variety of drugs, and focusing more
| resources on research, medical uses, addiction prevention,
| treatment and prosecuting related secondary crimes like robbery
| etc...
|
| I do worry about folks who perhaps have experienced the legal
| weed phenomenon stepping up to DMT or large mushroom doses and
| not being prepared. I know this is just decriminalizing, but
| access follows. Ultimately I believe it is the individual choice
| and the benefits outweigh the damages, but I am not certain how
| it all plays out when the real numbers are in.
| runnerup wrote:
| > I know this is just decriminalizing, but access follows.
|
| I just want affordable, trustworthy, fast, and legal
| quantitative testing so that people actually know what they're
| taking.
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