[HN Gopher] Councils in England in crisis as Birmingham 'declare...
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Councils in England in crisis as Birmingham 'declares itself
bankrupt'
Author : lsllc
Score : 24 points
Date : 2023-09-06 17:23 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| amriksohata wrote:
| Labour has done this to the Slough council too
| gumballindie wrote:
| Guaranteed the only way they'll think will solve the issue is
| higher taxes. The uk has run out of ideas and the only option
| seems to be taking people's money away.
| HWR_14 wrote:
| The government has to tax to pay for things.
|
| Birmingham has been legally constrained to raise taxes at a
| maximum of 5% per year, even with the massive inflation in the
| past few years. A 10% increase this year (what they are asking
| for) will still put them at an (inflation adjusted) lower tax
| rate than 2019.
| SenAnder wrote:
| I'm confused. Are Birmingham taxes levied in absolute units
| of currency, not as a % of income? Because if it's a % of
| income, then inflation is irrelevant, no?
| nvarsj wrote:
| It's a fixed amount. And hilariously outdated - it's based
| on property valuation in 1991. I pay more council tax on my
| modest home than some mega mansions in the area. The other
| silly thing about it is the tenant pays, not the owner.
| [deleted]
| gumballindie wrote:
| It also has to spend money well, stimulate growth, and whole
| lot of other things than taking people's money away to patch
| things. The only option as it stands is privatising the NHS.
| fakedang wrote:
| > The only option as it stands is privatising the NHS.
|
| This is akin to political suicide though. Remember, the
| conservatives' Brexit battle cry was 300 million pounds for
| the NHS.
| gumballindie wrote:
| Well it's either the NHS, the tories, or the country.
| Labour dont have a plan either. Taxing everyone to death
| is patchwork. The UK is in deep, deep, trouble and it
| ain't the politics causing it. It's the culture of making
| one bad choice after the other.
| gloryjulio wrote:
| The only way it will work in ideal world is to let the rich and
| old to cough out some shares to let the average young
| population to have better chances and willing to have more
| kids. But we will never reach that point
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| The young will leave for better pastures when they can, and
| when they can't, they'll just stop having kids and the locale
| will die out. Sad watching the old and wealthy choke the
| future to death, but that's humanity for you.
| drcongo wrote:
| I'm guessing you're not UK based?
| gumballindie wrote:
| I am, and taxation is atrocious.
| mk89 wrote:
| Are taxes high and services/schools/hospitals so bad you
| need to pay privately?
| gumballindie wrote:
| The NHS (public healthcare), is unusable. They are taking
| the piss, having two hour lunch breaks at surgeries,
| pushing everyone towards main hospitals which are
| overcrowded. Schools are a gamble, it's called the post
| code lottery - the masses obviously say the "rich" are
| sending kids private, but anyone who wants decent
| schooling goes private. Increased small business taxes,
| increased software contractor regulation, are literally
| killing the industry. Cities are going bankrupt due to
| mismanagement yet folks keep demanding tax hikes as if
| that's going to fix the fundamental issues of this
| country. I've never seen the UK in such a bad state.
| Potholes everywhere while the government is yet to be
| held accountable for misspending money.
| mk89 wrote:
| I am a bit surprised to read this about the UK.
|
| Is this everywhere or just in some regions?
|
| Anyway, the issue is not the taxation but the misuse,
| then?
| gumballindie wrote:
| Tax hikes coupled with higher interest rates and an
| increased cost of living are making a dent. For software
| developer, contractors in particular - the only way to
| reach something that somewhat resembles US pay - are now
| subject to tightened regulation called IR35. Contracts
| "inside" IR53 are taxed just like regular pay even if
| done via an LTD and you can't claim expenses. This
| regulation is meant to catch disguised employees, but
| large clients don't want to risk it. In reality what's
| happening is that contract work is sent to outsourcing
| companies, one of which is the prime minister's wife's
| father Infosys. And that's one example. Outside tech
| there are all sorts of "traps": people's wages are
| increasing only to be caught up in higher tax brackets
| essentially meaning their pay is still low. Factoring in
| what I wrote about taxes, col, and interest raters,
| everyone is much poorer now than before. A lot of low
| income earners are squeaking about further tax hikes as
| if that's going to improve their lifes somehow. It's a
| crab mentality.
|
| In regards to regions, it naturally varies, but overall
| the situation is the same everywhere. For instance, the
| second largest city just went bankrupt and I suppose
| those people are in for a ride. The region where I live,
| despite being the type that pays the tax so many yearn
| for, roads are filled with potholes, and the local
| surgery constantly complains about how much work they
| need to do. Friday, 2 PM it's closed for the weekend, and
| each day there's a two hour lunch break. You can't make
| this up.
|
| But throughout schools, hospitals, complain about being
| understaffed, including private companies, yet when they
| try and increase wages to attract talent, said wages are
| immediately taxed. I can go on for ages, but something's
| way off about the country and it seems like a lot of
| factors are converging and forming a perfect storm.
| rmvt wrote:
| what i've seen with the nhs is doctors avoiding
| care/exams in order to save PSPS (i suspect as guidance
| from above). i've heard these takes on public schools but
| they failed to explain what's actually bad about them.
| could you provide more detail?
|
| as for the sw contract industry, the way i see it more
| like closing a loophole where contractors were
| essentially working as permanent employees but ended up
| paying less taxes. outside ir35 contracts are a thing and
| the fact that there's less of those is probably an
| indicator that they were indeed used as a loophole.
|
| tax hikes might help, it just depends on whom.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Can't do much about the demographics with the aging population.
| They probably can't or won't do much on the business/economy.
| Seems the only thing left to do is raise taxes, or cut
| services.
|
| This is really a similar thing we're seeing in other countries
| with aging populations. Even look at the US social security -
| raise the tax to support it, or reduce the services.
| throw156754228 wrote:
| I really don't know what our London borough's council does
| outside of garbage collection and passing school applications
| over to schools. Weeds overgrown on every footpath, litter all
| over the place. Oh they mow the local football pitch every blue
| moon. I pay 2500 pounds a year.
| danw1979 wrote:
| They should publish an annual report outlining the spend. You
| might be surprised at what they fund, or rather what central
| government doesn't fund.
|
| Nobody seems to sweep the roads or maintain the bike paths
| though.
| mikhailfranco wrote:
| _The Guardian_ describing how unions bankrupted a local
| authority, so that (potentially, if it was like the private
| sector) all workers will lose their jobs. Priceless.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| This one-liner fails to show the long-term finances of capital
| versus cash flows; fails to address the regulatory environment
| under which labor was provided; failed to include records of
| legal actions against any or all participants parties;
| essentially a political one-liner, which is strongly
| discouraged on this forum
| MattPalmer1086 wrote:
| Alternate take: describing how the unions held the local
| authority to account after illegally underpaying women for a
| long time, which the supreme court had already ruled they had
| to pay...
| [deleted]
| barrysteve wrote:
| The article doesn't really pinpoint a specific problem, just
| vaguely wanders over various structural issues and expenditure on
| caterer and cleaner's pay.
|
| Why are the business rates dropping? It doesn't really matter
| what the outgoings are, if the income is dipping.
|
| Why bother increasing taxes if you can't grow your income?
| Something else is happening here and the article isn't touching
| it.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| Our own local council in the South of England, BCP is in the
| doghouse too. We have extraordinary inequality of taxation at the
| root of it. We have some of the wealthiest areas in Europe, like
| Sandbanks where every house is a mansion with it's own private
| beach, but we still cant fill the potholes in roads in the
| poorest areas. So sad that they lack the courage to put basic
| policies in order.
| mikhailfranco wrote:
| Same story in _The Register,_ but with more focus on failed IT
| projects:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37404350
| ep103 wrote:
| As an outsider, it is rather hilarious that the top two responses
| to this story right now on HN are:
|
| * Our own local council in the South of England, BCP is in the
| doghouse too. We have extraordinary inequality of taxation at the
| root of it. We have some of the wealthiest areas in Europe, like
| Sandbanks where every house is a mansion with it's own private
| beach, but we still cant fill the potholes in roads in the
| poorest areas. So sad that they lack the courage to put basic
| policies in order.
|
| and
|
| * Guaranteed the only way they'll think will solve the issue is
| higher taxes. The uk has run out of ideas and the only option
| seems to be taking people's money away.
| nvarsj wrote:
| I mean, they are both kind of true. The only thing palatable to
| the government is to raise income taxes. They won't dare touch
| capital gain tax or property tax - which is where the vast
| majority of wealth is concentrated. Income tax is absolutely
| brutal in this country, with the 100k cliff for example. It's
| very hard to accumulate wealth via salary.
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