[HN Gopher] Gmail and Instagram are training AI, and there's lit...
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Gmail and Instagram are training AI, and there's little you can do
about it
Author : bookofjoe
Score : 36 points
Date : 2023-09-12 20:40 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
| throwawaaarrgh wrote:
| You can stop using them
| jedberg wrote:
| No you can't. If anyone emails you from Gmail, or you mail
| anyone at Gmail, then they are still using your data.
|
| If someone takes a picture of you and posts it on Instagram,
| they are still using your data.
|
| The only solution here are new laws about retaining ownership
| of your data even if it's been uploaded to a third party.
| skilled wrote:
| It's interesting the contrast between the Zoom story (which got
| covered on pretty much all editorials) and that of companies that
| "only" use text as opposed to conversations from video and audio.
|
| As the article points out, because there is no regulation and no
| clear definition of where the "privacy" line is being crossed -
| companies will do everything they can to get a competitive edge.
|
| I am also a little baffled with how many editorials have blocked
| GPTBot but probably couldn't explain why they did it, because
| once you hit that publish button - the very next day it's going
| to be in a dozen different datasets, not to mention being passed
| around by data broker's that rather stay secretive.
|
| All this is setting such an insane precedent for the future of
| the web and how content will be created, I guess AGI is just that
| close and it's going to be that great that it will solve all of
| our problems.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| https://archive.ph/Mx5Up
| passwordoops wrote:
| Sort of related is the antitrust trial against Google just
| started. And, yes this is the way to stop this bs because of
| Google is (correctly) called a monopoly and (hopefully) broken
| up, then AdSense, Gmail, YouTube, Search and all the rest become
| separate entities and cannot easily share data under one
| umbrella. Probably also breaks the creepy stalker advertising
| model too
| cloudking wrote:
| Is this really news? I'm pretty sure Google and Meta have been
| doing this for years. You agreed to it when you signed the ToS.
| jiofj wrote:
| >Your Gmail and Instagram are training AI. There's little you can
| do about it.
|
| You can stop using those services.
|
| >It's your data.
|
| As soon as you decide to upload it somewhere else, it's not.
| arrowsmith wrote:
| > You can stop using those services.
|
| But they can't stop using you.
| OfSanguineFire wrote:
| > You can stop using those services.
|
| Even if you stop using Gmail, chances are that the other party
| is using Gmail. (Today even e-mail addresses with non-Gmail
| domains are often using Gmail behind their custom domain.) So,
| your emails go to train AI for Google even if you deliberately
| stopped using their service.
| jiofj wrote:
| When you send mail to someone else, they can do whatever they
| want with it, including giving it to google.
| jedberg wrote:
| Then you really haven't done anything about them using your
| data for training, have you?
| jiofj wrote:
| The article says "Your Gmail and Instagram are training
| AI.", emphasis on the "your". Of course I can't do
| anything about someone else distributing data I gave
| them.
| [deleted]
| cmcaleer wrote:
| Not even refusing to use these services is a silver bullet
| against your privacy being violated[0].
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_profile
| JohnMakin wrote:
| People trot this tired "point" out way too much here with too
| little of the obvious rebuttal -
|
| you do not under any circumstances actually need to use these
| services for them to use and collect data points on you.
| pixl97 wrote:
| Do you think people don't copy every post off HN and feed it
| to AI?
|
| At some point things turn from you can avoid to they are ever
| present.
|
| Kind of like avoiding cameras and license plate readers, you
| going to lock yourself in a hole and avoid people?
| cooper_ganglia wrote:
| The most frustrating for me is social media apps constantly
| asking you to share your contacts with them. They get a
| curated database of every name, number, email address, street
| address, and photo from (I would guess) most users, and that
| data isn't even yours to deny access to.
|
| Sure, it's all publicly available info, but I don't want
| services I haven't signed up for having my info without my
| consent. I don't like that my friends and family can just
| give them access to all of that data without me being
| involved in any way.
| pixl97 wrote:
| At least they have to ask these days, before phones added
| more security they didn't bother with getting permission.
| jszymborski wrote:
| > and there's little you can do about it
|
| I mean, if people as a whole stopped using Gmail, then this would
| stop being an issue.
| [deleted]
| doublerabbit wrote:
| Its easy to do, in theory. Gmail worked on a basis of exclusive
| invites.
|
| Hype a short name like "hnmail" with a fancy UI. Setup an
| invite system and you could be the next email provider.
|
| Just as Canonical hyped with free Ubuntu cd's.
|
| I've stopped using gmail ever since they disabled my account
| wolfcub@gmail for no reason. never will and won't tell me why.
| Apparently it's "inclusive", whatever that means.
|
| Way to disgruntle a 17 year old me, so I've been hosting my own
| ever since.
| warkdarrior wrote:
| Cool story, bro. Do you also avoid emailing people with Gmail
| addresses, or posting on mailing lists with Gmail
| subscribers, or emailing business with a Google Workspace
| service?
| jeffbee wrote:
| Pretty typical journalistic hit piece, consistent with other
| publications and organizations that I stopped supporting like
| EPIC and EFF. If you willfully misread the ToS, and use sleight-
| of-word in your editorial, then it all sounds super scary!
|
| If your brain works and you want to read about privacy
| implications of training models on private user data, I suggest
| starting with https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.08232.pdf "The Secret
| Sharer: Evaluating and Testing Unintended Memorization in Neural
| Networks" and the papers that cite it.
| [deleted]
| mtillman wrote:
| Why would I want to do something about it? It's a good use of
| data that they have been very upfront about collecting. Aren't
| machines doing things for me a good thing?
| luxuryballs wrote:
| headline sounds like I'm about to be shaken down for protection
| money lol
| [deleted]
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(page generated 2023-09-12 23:00 UTC)