[HN Gopher] Android 14 adds support for using your smartphone as...
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       Android 14 adds support for using your smartphone as a webcam
        
       Author : amadeuspagel
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2023-09-21 20:04 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.esper.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.esper.io)
        
       | cassidyslivers wrote:
       | About time I don't have to use 3rd party software often full of
       | bloat to do this task.
        
       | james2doyle wrote:
       | I've been using the Camo app for over a year. Works excellent.
       | Even supports viewing the camera over wifi. No cable necessary.
       | It is free for a basic account. Find it here:
       | https://reincubate.com/camo/
        
         | mattbee wrote:
         | I liked it too, paid for it for a few months. But every so
         | often it would start lagging by about 1000ms. Tthe only
         | solution was to reinstall the Windows drivers. This happened
         | with both iPhone and Android devices, and more than once, so I
         | cancelled when they didn't have a better solution.
        
       | goodburb wrote:
       | [deleted]
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | Most of them, except for one thread, seem on-topic.
        
       | minroot wrote:
       | When will Android phones get video output on their USB-C port?
        
         | dazhbog wrote:
         | My Oneplus 7T seems to have it but never found a use for it
         | (its just basic screen mirroring). I think Samsung is the only
         | one with a docking UI system (DEX) though
        
         | ewoodrich wrote:
         | I can plug my Galaxy S23 into a normal USB-C to HDMI or
         | Displayport dock and use any external screen with Dex. Or do
         | you mean something different?
         | 
         | Edit: Just tried it on my dock and it can also mirror vs acting
         | as a separate display via Dex.
        
       | recursive wrote:
       | I've been doing this for years. In what way is support not
       | already present?
        
       | mholt wrote:
       | Too little, too late for me... I hate to be the guy having those
       | "hot takes" or whatever, but hear me out for a sec:
       | 
       | I didn't get a cell phone until 2013. (Yes I used land lines
       | until then.) It was a Nexus 4 (still love the grippy sides and
       | sleek glass back). Every 2-3 years I traded up, all the way until
       | Pixel 6.
       | 
       | Tomorrow my first iPhone will be delivered. Why? A lot of
       | reasons, but some are:
       | 
       | - I can't just plug my Google phone into an external display to
       | mirror it. Uh, hello?? DisplayPort out is explicitly disabled in
       | the source code with no reason given:
       | https://twitter.com/MishaalRahman/status/1189998588023234560 --
       | yet this works great in other phones.
       | 
       | - I can't access my text messages from my Android phone (without
       | a separate app like SMS Backup & Restore) -- go ahead, try it.
       | Yeah, do an adb backup. Maybe rooting your phone would give you
       | access, but it's impossible otherwise AFAIK. And I think rooting
       | your phone deletes everything in the process.
       | 
       | - I can't access my phone backup. It's ONLY stored on Google's
       | servers. The only way to even get close is to restore it to a
       | phone. This is a physical device I bought and literally am
       | holding in my hand but can't access all the stuff on it! Did you
       | know you can just plug in an iPhone into Windows or Macs and dump
       | a backup to your computers? It's all right there, text messages,
       | system settings, contacts, photos, databases, EVERYTHING (except
       | maybe hardware-protected keys). It's amazing.
       | 
       | - Do I even need to mention all the Google shenanigans? We all
       | know what I'm talking about, right? The mess of messengers... the
       | killing of various services, the lack of support, the stronger
       | integration with ads and tracking.
       | 
       | Apple's not perfect either, but I feel like it's worth a shot
       | inside the walled garden for a bit. I like that some of these
       | common sense things are not a problem with iOS:
       | 
       | - Display out.
       | 
       | - Accessing your own device.
       | 
       | - Messaging that actually makes sense.
       | 
       | - At least it feels like Apple cares about privacy;
       | counterintuitively, I feel way more in control using Apple
       | products than I do Google ones.
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | Unlocking your phone wipes it. Rooting does not.
         | 
         | I've used LineageOS + MicroG on a pixel phone and it's been
         | great being free of Google spyware.
        
         | njroute22 wrote:
         | Why do you need to mirror your phone? Why do you want to access
         | your messages? For what purpose? What do you need to backup
         | besides (maybe) photos? Which is easy (drag and drop) anyway.
         | Sounds more like you have some kind of device dependency beyond
         | normality.
        
           | hackmiester wrote:
           | Displaying something on a TV is beyond normality?
        
           | teawrecks wrote:
           | I think when you say "why do you need to ____?" you think
           | you're saying "what are you trying to do, and maybe there's
           | another way to accomplish that", but what everyone hears is
           | "you're right".
           | 
           | And for the record, "because it's their device, not Google's"
           | should be as good a reason as any.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | > I can't access my phone backup. It's ONLY stored on Google's
         | servers.
         | 
         | What options do iPhones have for saving/restoring backups?
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _What options do iPhones have for saving /restoring
           | backups?_
           | 
           | iCloud and local.
        
             | wlesieutre wrote:
             | You can also do more granular backups with software like
             | iMazing
             | 
             | https://imazing.com/
        
           | mplewis wrote:
           | iPhone lets you manage backups from your computer. Learn
           | more: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204136
        
         | moonchrome wrote:
         | I switch between both every few years, on iPhone 14 ATM.
         | 
         | Honestly Android does a lot of things better - there's so many
         | stupid "because Apple" things on iOS. For example it's
         | impossible to tell the charging speed/estimated charge time, I
         | have a lot of charging bricks between places and I can't tell
         | if I picked an iPhone compatible fast charger/cable or not ? Or
         | when I have Chrome/Firefox installed, highlight text and tap
         | search the web - it takes me to Safari ? A lot of small
         | annoyances like these where you can't do anything about it
         | because the OS is so closed down.
         | 
         | Android is way more customisable, easier to side load stuff
         | (like running GBA emulator on iPhone). Also a lot more exciting
         | phones in the Android ecosystem (eg. Samsung flip phones)
         | 
         | I like the ecosystem integration with my Mac but I wouldn't say
         | one is clearly better than the other.
        
         | DavidPeiffer wrote:
         | I've been using android phones since 2009 and am highly
         | considering a switch to Apple for the next one.
         | 
         | Along with the reasons you state, the ecosystem is really
         | messy. I've bought Nexus/Pixel phones for the last 10 years and
         | continue to be bummed by their performance.
         | 
         | Pixel 1 XL was fantastic, but after about 2 years the camera
         | kept failing. 3+ seconds to load, and it would commonly crash.
         | Ultimately the battery life degraded, and the replacement
         | battery degraded within a couple months, so I moved on.
         | 
         | The 3a fell out of my pocket and broke 2 months prior to the
         | end of security updates. That was a decent phone overall, but
         | not supported by Google as long as I would have liked.
         | 
         | Pixel 6 Pro has been fine so far, but my wife has been having
         | issues with her Pixel 5. Slow performance, unreliable cellular
         | connectivity, etc.
         | 
         | "Don't buy Pixel phones" could be the lesson here, but
         | alternatives are arguably more of a security nightmare. My
         | experience with Galaxy phones has been that they're preloaded
         | with an _incredible_ amount of junk that needs to be un-
         | installed. With Pixel it 's exclusively Google apps, most of
         | which can be removed. That gives a smaller privacy and security
         | concern than having 30 different companies with their apps pre-
         | loaded (and possibly not removable).
         | 
         | > Apple's no angel either IMO, but I feel like it's worth a
         | shot inside the walled garden for a bit.
         | 
         | I've hated on Apple a lot over the years and am disappointed
         | that switching platforms seems like the best move after all
         | these years.
        
           | ttt3ts wrote:
           | Soon as I can sideload another browser with real AdBlock I am
           | switching. Looks like the EU might force apple to allow it :)
        
             | mardifoufs wrote:
             | Yeah I have been using android for every single phone I've
             | ever had, but I don't see the point once iOS allows
             | sideloading. They have locked down the OS so much(I kind of
             | understand why, but still) that the sideloading is pretty
             | much the only difference now. So why go for android?
        
         | KomoD wrote:
         | > - I can't just plug my Google phone into an external display
         | to mirror it. Uh, hello?? DisplayPort out is explicitly
         | disabled in the source code with no reason given
         | 
         | This apparently changes with the Pixel 8
         | 
         | > - I can't access my text messages from my Android phone
         | (without a separate app like SMS Backup & Restore) -- go ahead,
         | try it. Yeah, do an adb backup. Maybe rooting your phone would
         | give you access, but it's impossible otherwise AFAIK. And I
         | think rooting your phone deletes everything in the process.
         | 
         | > - I can't access my phone backup. It's ONLY stored on
         | Google's servers. The only way to even get close is to restore
         | it to a phone. This is a physical device I bought and literally
         | am holding in my hand but can't access all the stuff on it! Did
         | you know you can just plug in an iPhone into Windows or Macs
         | and dump a backup to your computers? It's all right there, text
         | messages, system settings, contacts, photos, databases,
         | EVERYTHING (except maybe hardware-protected keys). It's
         | amazing.
         | 
         | This is not applicable for all Android phones
         | 
         | > - Do I even need to mention all the Google shenanigans? We
         | all know what I'm talking about, right? The mess of
         | messengers... the killing of various services, the lack of
         | support, the stronger integration with ads and tracking.
         | 
         | No I don't, none of the dead services have impacted me, what
         | mess of messengers? Lack of support for what?
        
           | pests wrote:
           | I don't have an opinion but..
           | 
           | > what mess of messengers?
           | 
           | Meet, Hangouts, GChat, Talk, Allo, Duo, Meet, Voice,
           | Messenger ....
           | 
           | With various levels of integration, merging, and unmerging of
           | the servies over the years.
        
         | teawrecks wrote:
         | As someone who has been running de-googled android for years, I
         | don't identify with any of your complaints.
         | 
         | Good luck leaving that walled garden by going to apple.
        
       | filereaper wrote:
       | This is a welcome addition, companies spend time and effort
       | building cameras with tracking and portrait mode etc..
       | 
       | I just feel this feature comes a bit too late where there was a
       | scramble during the pandemic to get webcams as everything
       | suddenly went remote.
       | 
       | Would have been good to have shipped this feature back then
       | instead of buying 3rd party apps that provided this feature.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Exactly. I for sure would've thought this would be a "20% time"
         | app as lockdowns became common. Wyze figured out how to allow
         | its security cameras to be used as webcams in March 2020!
         | https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/31/21202022/wyze-firmware-up...
        
         | jsight wrote:
         | Better late than never. I bought a webcam for those days, but
         | I'm guessing my phone will still have far higher quality.
        
       | orbital-decay wrote:
       | Most Android phones don't have a good USB controller though, as
       | it's not considered a priority. Without it you'll be restricted
       | to the blocky MJPEG garbage with terribly downsampled chroma
       | squeezed through the USB 2.0 connection, and get the quality
       | equivalent to a laptop webcam.
        
         | ClassyJacket wrote:
         | 480mbps isn't enough for good quality video? It's 3.75x the
         | maximum bitrate of a 4K Blu Ray. It should be fine. It can't be
         | lossless, but it should be damn high quality.
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | > 480mbps isn't enough for good quality video? It's 3.75x the
           | maximum bitrate of a 4K Blu Ray.
           | 
           | Webcams need to be very near real-time to be useful. That
           | severely limits what kinds of compression you can use on the
           | video stream.
        
             | ClassyJacket wrote:
             | That's absolutely true but I still very much doubt it's so
             | bad that you would exceed 480mbps even on a decent
             | resolution stream. We're not talking multiple orders of
             | magnitude difference. Like... if all else fails just send
             | every frame as a separate image with a fast encoder and
             | you've still got 1.6 megabytes for each.
             | 
             | Steam in-home streaming needs to be realtime too, but is
             | very playable, and most people aren't realistically getting
             | 480mbps out of their wifi.
             | 
             | 4k I don't know... 1080p no problem.
             | 
             | Don't most phones have dedicated hardware video encoders on
             | their SoC now anyway?
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | To make a point, early webcams were USB 1.0, 12Mbps maximum,
           | and it was enough for SD-quality video. USB 2.0 is 40x
           | faster, which, assuming similar encoding (i.e. 20 year old
           | tech), should be more than enough for 1080p video. It should
           | be enough to best any laptop webcam, which are usually USB2
           | internally, but with worse optics and without the processing
           | power of a smartphone behind it.
           | 
           | Using more fancy encoding, 4k should be no problem, even with
           | a bit of headroom for on-device encoding and low latency.
        
             | Dalewyn wrote:
             | >without the processing power of a smartphone behind it.
             | 
             | Considering the cheapest of desktop/laptop CPUs and iGPUs
             | are more powerful than the best mobile CPUs and GPUs, this
             | is a problem with the encoders and video chat software
             | involved.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | The best cellphone CPU's easily beat cheap laptops's from
               | a few years ago.
        
           | orbital-decay wrote:
           | I was going to say something about MJPEG, but it looks like
           | UVC supports H.264 for a decade already. I guess I was
           | confused by the cheap USB 2.0 webcams, they mostly use MJPEG
           | and yes it's utter trash.
           | 
           | Still, good webcams use USB 3.0 and no chroma subsampling, to
           | avoid recompression and enable certain tricks. I hope the YUV
           | 4:4:4 mode will be supported in this, for those who have the
           | speed and want chromakeys/non-blurry reds.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-21 23:00 UTC)