[HN Gopher] Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month ___________________________________________________________________ Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month Author : darthShadow Score : 417 points Date : 2023-09-21 20:32 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (blog.kagi.com) (TXT) w3m dump (blog.kagi.com) | [deleted] | late25 wrote: | Interesting the HN crowd is into this for the simple fact that | you must be logged in (and presumably tracked?) to use it. | prh8 wrote: | It's not tracked, that's (part of) the whole point | jkubicek wrote: | I have other ways to search anonymously. For 95% of my searches | I'm happy to have my search history tracked, used to drive | better results for me in the future and available for me to | browse if I want to. As long as Kagi isn't selling my search | history to another company, I actually prefer that they track | my search history. | | Note: currently Kagi doesn't track search history; I hope they | find a way to enable it in the future. | [deleted] | freeAgent wrote: | Kagi doesn't currently retain search history. It's set for | future opt-in, but can't be enabled as yet. | t0astbread wrote: | Browsing the site on Tor Browser gave me a Google 403 page until | I cycled circuits a few times. Makes perfect sense given the blog | is hosted on GCP but it did make me pause initially and consider | if that was some sort of joke I'm not getting. | whalesalad wrote: | Bueno! | ghostpepper wrote: | This is great - I have been a happy subscriber for almost a year | I think. | | My biggest complaint with Kagi is not their fault - it's the | inability to set custom search engines on Safari (and no, I'm not | interested in installing a custom browser extension). | slikrick wrote: | if you don't want to install a browser extension then safari | having customizable search engines wouldn't help you anyways. | you would need to login to the account which is additionally | functionality that wouldn't be provided without the extensioj | daft_pink wrote: | I was skeptical about this as well but I caved and did it. It's | amazing how hard different browsers have made it to add a | search engine | bob_theslob646 wrote: | I don't understand what's wrong with charging money for a service | that to the best of my knowledge doesn't serve you ads? | imiric wrote: | It's far less profitable than the advertising model. | Unfortunately, most tech companies are VC-backed and optimize | for profits. | | It also introduces adoption friction for users who are used to | things being "free" on the internet, which hurts the | hypergrowth shareholders want to see. | pbarnes_1 wrote: | Is there a dark mode? | | The example (https://kagi.com/search?q=steve+jobs) doesn't seem | to respect my system theme on macOS. | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _Is there a dark mode?_ | | Here is Kagi's quick answer [0], where its AI "extracts and | summarizes the important content from the search results | including links to the source material": | | "Kagi supports dark mode functionality to reduce eye | strain.[1][2] Users can select between the Royal Blue or Moon | Dark default themes in their appearance settings. Additionally, | the Orion browser powered by Kagi includes dark mode that can | be toggled on websites.[3]" | | [0] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/getting-started/#summarize- | result... | | [1] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/settings/appearance.html | | [2] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/support-and-community/open- | source... | | [3] https://blog.kagi.com/orion-new-features | pbarnes_1 wrote: | Ah, when not logged in, it defaults to light mode. | | When I logged in with my Google account, it detected the | system setting. | somsak2 wrote: | Interesting example for a search. I found a few things that | seem like bit like basic misses: | | * the regular wikipedia as the first result, and the mobile | version of the same page as fourth one | | * Links to https://steveblank.com/2009/06/18/epitaph-for-an- | entrepreneu..., which never mentions Steve Jobs | | * the above link also has the wrong date attached (Kagi thinks | it was published Jul 17, 2023) | bionade24 wrote: | Yes, even multiple themes. You can choose between detection of | the system preference, light and dark mode. The setting is | bound to your account, which I like, but I don't search much on | my phone outdoors. | cobertos wrote: | TIL that there was a light mode. I've been in dark mode since I | started using it | egonschiele wrote: | A lot of comments mention privacy. Could someone explain who can | see my searches at Kagi? My experience working at startups is | that companies are very lax with customer PII. With a product | like this, I have to assume every engineer at Kagi can see every | search I make. | raybb wrote: | > Universal Summarizer, which can summarize unlimited-length | documents, audio, and video! | | Any plans to let you paste in text or a PDF yet? It's quite | annoying to have to upload the audio files somewhere to get a | summary. | raybb wrote: | Edit: also would be nice is kagi transcribed videos when there | are no transcripts available. | | For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmr9NzxjUA just | says | | "Sorry, a problem occurred while processing your request. | Please try again later." | ezekiel68 wrote: | Also happy Kagi customer. It is my default search and I get much | less fluff in the results than I did with big G. So happy it | respects search modifiers! | jmholla wrote: | Glad they found a way to to walk back the limited search count | (especially when so many things you wouldn't think counted did). | Might have to re-enable my account now. | | Previous discussion about the prior change: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35078392 (226 Comments) | esafak wrote: | Now you're priced to sell. | | Have you done a formal price optimization? There are no priced | competitors to pressure you to stick to a price point so you have | leeway to experiment. | okasaki wrote: | I definitely wouldn't want to associate my entire search history | with my real identity | jamiek88 wrote: | They don't keep logs and if you don't trust that, they accept | crypto. | | Also, do you really think google doesn't know who you are? | | One would have to go to extraordinary lengths to hide your real | name nowadays from even a talented curious searcher never mind | google itself. | | Even Ross Ulnricht couldn't do it. And that boy had a LOT to | lose. | sph wrote: | Neither do I, which is why I don't use Google. | CobaltFire wrote: | They offer crypto payments, and you can cycle accounts through | throwaway emails. | | Vlad has addressed this several times; it's a planned use case. | They offer it because though they don't keep logs they don't | expect everyone to trust that. | | I can't find the comment but he just addressed it a couple days | ago here on HN. | badrabbit wrote: | [flagged] | wellthisisgreat wrote: | > Who wants to start a company selling fresh bottled air? Lol. | | i wish i could downvote this 100x. Peak bad NH stuff. | | Kagi is actually one of the few good new products out there | that tackle fundamental user needs. | badrabbit wrote: | I respect your desire to downvote me but I respectfullu | disagree after signing up and using them. | | "Bad HN stuff" is lazy argument. They sell google searches | and their value is "we promise". Bad HN stuff is how the HN | crowd loves to hate on commercial VPN providers who have the | same business model but the Kagi dude speaks and talks like | your crowd so you rally around this product. | | As if DDG didn't do the same thing for free. ADs were never | the problem, the way ads work in search was the problem. | | One of the first lessons I learned on the internet is never | to trust online services on their word alone and that what | you post online (search in this case) is there to stay | forever. | | You know what made me swtich from indifferent to opposing | Kagi? After my trial ended, i kept searching for stuff in my | nav bar, historical hits come up and when I select them, | boom, Kagi paywall! | | That's why my challenge to Kagi is if they ask money for what | DDG and like a dozen other competitors offer for free with | privacy promises similar to Kagi, then at least offer | insurance and put their money where their mouth is if they're | going to ask for people's money. | | Also, search results after you stop paying shouldn't go back | on paywall, you paid already for it! | | I commented fully expecting to get downvoted as I do now, but | you haven't countered my fairly reasonable assertions. | crisp wrote: | Happy customer here. Kagi is by far the best search engine there | is. | | When I first started using Kagi a year ago or so, I compared | results with Google every now and then. | | Now? Never. | | 10 bucks a month for a tool that I use multiple times every | single day is more than reasonable. The results hit home | virtually every time. | | There are variety of features to customize your searches but | truthfully, I never found the need for them. I've only | blocked/deprioritized some domains, that's it. The results are | just so good. | sva_ wrote: | > 10 bucks a month for a tool that I use multiple times every | single day is more than reasonable. | | This number really varies based on where you live, and there is | no pricing model that accounts for this. I suppose it is mostly | just aimed at Americans. | somsak2 wrote: | This is a company, not a charity. | jchw wrote: | Some platforms actually do account for this by having special | "developing countries" discounts, or some other euphemism | like that. IIRC Gumroad is one that supports this. | somsak2 wrote: | Pretty funny that when textbook publishers try to do this, | people really hate it. | ukd1 wrote: | Ditto; also happy customer, been paying for a long time now, | never looked back money wise, or to google. | | My experience trying switching with duckduckgo (repeatedly) | always failed; checking google, unhappy with ddg results. Kagi, | not so. | carlossouza wrote: | I also stopped using Google, but I have replaced it with | Perplexity.ai... | | Have you ever used Perplexity? How does Kagi compare with it? | t0bia_s wrote: | Interesting, thanks for tip. | melvinmelih wrote: | I'm still on the free Perplexity plan but it has already | replaced my Google search by a lot. I'm a huge fan. Haven't | tried Kagi yet though. | kulahan wrote: | That's awesome that it's so flexible. Can you search using | symbols? Like if I'm trying to search "what is %" will it bring | back results regarding the percentage sign, or results that | start with the words "what is"? | | That's my major problem with google. Sometimes I need to search | info on a symbol, and I don't know what it's called yet, so I | have to perform another search, just to perform the one I | actually care about. | desperate wrote: | ^^^^ this is so frustrating to me. | jorams wrote: | I've generally found searching for symbols to work quite | well. It's a mixture of the two. You can check the results | for "what is %" here: https://kagi.com/search?q=what+is+%25&r | =no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2... | IshKebab wrote: | Why do your search links work, but the ones from Kagi's own | "Features" page just take me to a login page? | jorams wrote: | It looks like the like the blog post linked to by | Features links to plain search page URLs, which only work | for logged-in users. I used the Share feature to get a | sharable link. I guess that page needs to be updated. | [deleted] | turnsout wrote: | Weird question, but: what do you search for? | | I switched to DuckDuckGo a while back but I'm not a heavy | searcher. I would be curious to know your typical use cases! | ghayes wrote: | I search a lot for programming topics and when I get | frustrated I switch to Google and get literally the same | results. I'd say it's pretty good for web search and keeps up | to date. | | The downside is things like Sports and other knowledge items | which shows a widget I've never understood in my life. | crisp wrote: | Mainly tech/programming stuff for which Kagi is outstanding. | Lately I've searched a lot about a city (restaurants, places | to visit, events, ...) I moved in and it works for that too. | [deleted] | h4x0rr wrote: | So would you say it's on-par with google results or even | better? | r3trohack3r wrote: | For me, it's substantially better. | | The results are good by default. But you can change the | ranking of sites in your results, so every search is custom | to you. | | I pin documentation sites like MDN and pkg.go.dev and | penalize SEO span sites. | | My results are custom to me and my workflows, it's pretty | hard to go back at this point. | | Kagi is one of the stickiest subscription services I have. | andyjohnson0 wrote: | In my experience it's far, far better than google search. The | ability to boost some domains and block others is invaluable. | | But also, because you're the customer not the product, you | don't have to contend with Google's ad-driven search results | and their privacy violating bs. Totally worth the money. | | (Kagi user since the beta, paying user since they started | offering subscriptions.) | rg111 wrote: | Not GP, but from my end- a big yes! Also better than DDG, | which is better than Google nowadays. I also use phind and | code.you.com. | wellthisisgreat wrote: | google search is only good if you want to know "what the | corporate hive mind thinks what their idea of an average | consumer should think about it" | daft_pink wrote: | I think it is better most of the time because: | | - it combines the top 10 this or that list into listicles | that are aggregated into their own section and I find to | often be full of spam - it lets you block or deprioritize any | site you want like quora, medium, Forbes, that often give me | useless or incorrect info or are just their to boost so - it | lets you prioritize sites you like in the search ranking - it | doesn't have blocked or censored keywords - it lets you | specify by date or time quickly and easily which I find to be | beneficial and google seems to hide it constantly move around | in news | | It's weaker for like looking up a phone number or hours for a | local eatery, but in general I like it better. | NobodyNada wrote: | Yes, its results are far better than Google's. Google results | are full of SEO spam, marketing pages, etc. Kagi tends to | surface official documentation, blog posts, online | discussion/Q&A. Overall, it does a very good job highlighting | "real" content rather than "artificial" content. Plus, you | can personalize it by boosting/downranking/blocking sites, | creating regex rewrite rules on URLs, etc. | TradingPlaces wrote: | $9 now. Just signed up for the annual; 10% off | cobertos wrote: | I've been using Kagi for about a year now as well and have been | very happy. I find that I still go back to Google when I am | ready to purchase a product or find a local service. In this | case, I find that I'm generally happy with the people who are | paying money for search placement (either directly to Google or | for hardcore SEO) and find I can get less "fly-by-night" type | companies that way. | dylan604 wrote: | that's funny as the fly-by-night companies in my experience | are the ones spending all of their efforts to win the SEO to | get those clicks where the established companies can be found | by less sleazy methods | mongol wrote: | Can the search result quality be quantified somehow? I remember | when Google was new, and I used to use Altavista and Hotbot and | those older search engines, the difference in results were like | night and day, and Google's results were "wow!" | | Does Kagi give a similar impression as Google did then? | prennert wrote: | you can try it out. They give you 100 free searches. | distract8901 wrote: | Kagi is as good as google _used_ to be. It doesn 't have that | same 'wow' effect because we've all experienced what good | search is. | | It feels like turning on your ad blocker. It's what web | search was supposed to be all along. It isn't that it's | better than Google, Google is just so much worse now. | | I'm extremely happy with it. Just the ability to block | Pinterest from my results forever is worth the price. | dcow wrote: | I do think Kagi adds features that improve on what Google | offered in its heyday and saying meh there's nothing _new_ | doesn 't capture the full picture, but I generally | understand your vibe. | seventytwo wrote: | It's not that Kagi is _better_ at search, it's that Kagi is | cleaner and more efficient. It doesn't do bullshit dark | patterns, reward SEO, track the shit out of you, or hide | valuable tools. | | I'm a huge fan of the lenses feature. Specifically for | technical searches... I can filter for forums only or PDFs | only or academic stuff only. | pierat wrote: | > It's not that Kagi is better at search, it's that Kagi is | cleaner and more efficient. It doesn't do bullshit dark | patterns, reward SEO, track the shit out of you, or hide | valuable tools. | | Yet. | | Google did the same originally. Super clean, just delivered | whatever was searched for; no more, no less. | | When Kagi gets a taste of how much money is available for | tracking and profiling users. and theyll start small. And | since you have to be logged in to do searches, everything | is already pre-tracked. Then its only a matter of recording | and selling (on the sly) to data brokers. | | I used not to be this jaded. But its watching the same | thing again and again is why I wait for it this time | around. All good things do indeed come to an end. | askvictor wrote: | Not just that, but it's not really on the radar of SEO. | If they get big, SEO will probably lead to the same | enshitification as happened to Google. | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _Can the search result quality be quantified somehow?_ | | Encourage you to try it. I've repeated Scott Galloway's | mantra that advertisement is a tax on America's poor and | stupid. But I never quite clocked the cost of search ads. It | might be solely due to that lack of scrolling through crud | that makes Kagi seem much, much faster than Google or | DuckDuckGo. | dylan604 wrote: | Isn't that the same thing said about Lotto/scratch- | offs/etc? | crisp wrote: | I think I belong to the generation that grew up using just | Google so I cannot comment on quantification. | | The biggest difference for me is that on Kagi, the first | results are always relevant instead of clutter/ads that you | see on Google. | mypetocean wrote: | I've been around to compare them all (and used to spend | countless hours doing search engine research on Fravia's | "web search lores" website). | | Google represented a huge step up in search result quality | generally. But in recent years, the quality has really slid | - even while tuning results using more advanced Google | features. | | I don't think Google cares much about search result quality | these days, except insofar as they have to keep a minimum | threshold just to drive their ad and analytics revenue. | | There is a lot of opportunity for other search engines to | make strides forward in quality relative to Google these | days. | zoklet-enjoyer wrote: | That's how Google was when I was a kid | esafak wrote: | Yes, in many ways, such as the proportion of items on the | first page of a query response that are relevant. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_measures_(informati. | .. | adamsb6 wrote: | I'm just a week into using it, but one of the things I've | noticed is that for technical queries official docs are | ranked a lot higher than random blogs and those sites that | just repackage content they scraped from Stack Overflow. | | I don't know if they're putting a finger on the scale, or | maybe they're just doing the original Google thing of ranking | sites that seem to be where the search terminates higher, but | it's good. | svaha1728 wrote: | If you evaluate Kagi make sure to play around with the | "Personalized Results" settings. I find as a programmer, I | love the ability to push blogs and resources I like up to the | top of the list. You can check out the leaderboard to see, | globally what sites get blocked or raised: | https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard | robocat wrote: | #4 pinned is hacker news!!! So clearly big crossover | between HN fans and kagi. 8,629 Members. | | Top Blocked (from most blocked): | | pinterest.com/.co.uk/.ca/.de/.fr/.com.au/.es facebook.com | foxnews.com tiktok.com quora.com w3schools.com | breitbart.com dailymail.co.uk appsloveworld.com | instagram.com githubplus.com geeksforgeeks.org libhunt.com | twitter.com msn.com healthline.com solveforum.com | 9to5answer.com alternativeto.net giters.com wikihow.com | nypost.com codegrepper.com issuehint.com cnn.com educba.com | coder.social linkedin.com geekrepos.com kknews.cc | bleepcoder.com amazon.com programcreek.com forbes.com | newbedev.com drivereasy.com medium.com lightrun.com you.com | reddit.com webmd.com blog.csdn.net nytimes.com | washingtonpost.com | shermozle wrote: | Oh man I blocked all these when I first started using it | and haven't even thought of it since. Now I realise how | much Pinterest and W3Schools not showing up has improved | my life! | HanClinto wrote: | I've generally really loved w3schools for their tutorials | -- I've been using them to teach my kids web programming | and whatnot recently and generally been happy with them. | Is there something I'm missing about it? Maybe it's | because we have really good ad-blockers running, but | their content seems fine and (generally?) not terribly | "lifted" from other sites (I.E., just SEO spam). | | Is there a replacement for them that fills the same gap | for web reference / tutorials? | rg111 wrote: | I read some days back on HN that even Yandex is better than | Google nowadays. And I apologoze for shilling a Russian | company, but it is true! For some queries, Yandex is better | than Google. | | I have replaced Google completely with DDG for most searches, | ChatGPT for some things, GitHub Copilot for mundane code | questions, phind or code.you.com for things requiring more | search, and Kagi for things requiring much more searching. | | I use Google only now for nearby searches like "gas stations | near me", etc. | | I never really thought that this day would come. I love Kagi | for being able to block Pinterest from everywhere, | GeeksforGeeks, etc. | pierat wrote: | Oh Yandex is AWESOME, especially for tech, porn, and | piracy. None of its blocked. I get exactly what I'm looking | for. No bullshit. | | And I don't care if it is Russian. Tells me that the US | government wont be buying search history from them, or | cooperating in any capacity. Thats actually a double-good. | hedora wrote: | They used to have a US office, which got me wondering if | they're obligated to sell private user information to the | US gov't. | | Here's their current list of offices: | | https://yandex.com/jobs/locations/ | | So, maybe? (Better than "definitely", though...) | mypetocean wrote: | Yeah, I use DDG by default now, and only use Google for | hard searches - and even then, I'm continually surprised by | the frequency of terrible search results on Google these | days. | dcow wrote: | Kagi has replaced DDG for me entirely. Now that you get | unlimited searches, do you think it would for you, too? | hedora wrote: | Google's been losing in blind comparisons for over a decade | (experiments: | | - Both have google branding -> competitor wins | | - Neither has google branding -> competitor wins | | - One (chosen randomly) has google branding -> google | branding wins | | Yahoo search consistently beat them for a few years before | Microsoft bought it and turned it into Bing. It doesn't | surprise me at all that Yandex is also producing better | results. | konfusinomicon wrote: | hotbot! now there's a name I haven't heard in a while! that | was the first search engine I used regularly. it was the | perfect place to find warcraft 2 cheats and magic the | gathering deck ideas | dylan604 wrote: | you could always Ask Jeeves if you were looking for things | too. | Paul-Craft wrote: | I used to prefer Dogpile: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogpile | rkagerer wrote: | It actually felt like one of the better pre-Google engines. | viraptor wrote: | In my experience it's not that there's better quality results | found, but rather low quality results are skipped. There's a | lot filtered by default + it's easy to click "block this | domain" when you run into yet another stackoverflow copy. It | means that when you're searching for code related things, you | often get small relevant blogs in position 3+ rather than SEO | spam. | | For example searching for "current time on JavaScript" on | Google, I get SO, MDN, and basically a lot of SEO spam sites. | Same thing on Kagi https://kagi.com/search?q=current+time+in+ | JavaScript&r=au&sh... ends with an actually interesting blog | on position 5, link to moment.js on GH, further down posts | about accuracy and about the Temporal API proposal, etc. | JoshuaEN wrote: | This is my experience as well. Low quality junk is often | not present, and if it does show up, it's two mouse clicks | to never see that domain again. | | Also the ability to promote high quality domains helps even | more with this (though i have found one needs to be careful | with pinning domains, as it can lead to irrelevant results | being shown first because they have some if the same | keywords). | louthy wrote: | When I first signed up for Kagi, I found myself just | searching for fun. I hadn't had that feeling in forever (well | apart from when Google was first launched) | | Very happy customer here. | w1nst0nsm1th wrote: | How does it compare to Brave ? | sph wrote: | I'm already a paying customer but all I can say is wow. It is | rare to see companies offer more for less price, especially in | this economy. | | Good job Kagi, seriously! | slipperlobster wrote: | Instant upgrade from the $5/mo plan to this. My biggest complaint | about Kagi was that (artificial) ceiling looming over my head at | 500 searches per month. Now, I can finally switch my work | computer over to using Kagi and have zero worry. | | Nothing to complain about here, just overall very pleased. | clnq wrote: | Is there killer feature that Kagi has or is it just a marginal | improvement over Google? I've tried a few of my last technical | Google searches and got practically identical results. So I'm | wondering if there's more. Is there $120/yr worth of _more_ here? | | Also, if anyone finds it substantially better, could you give | some example queries on which it does better? | dot5xdev wrote: | I'm currently paying for Kagi. It's nice. But, so far I feel like | it may only be like 2% better than Google, probably not enough to | keep me long term. | | A lot of times the results are better on Kagi than Google, but | not by much. It makes sense they're similar since Kagi uses | Google's index (among others). | sph wrote: | > 2% better | | Not in my experience, and what about user tracking and | pervasive advertising? You don't seem to include that in your | comparison. | dot5xdev wrote: | Yeah, I'm strictly talking about search results. That's the | main thing I care about. No ads is nice, but if I can't find | information I need then that's not very useful to me. | hovering_nox wrote: | >user tracking | | You can use Google anonymously but you have to log in and | leave your payment data with Kagi. | | EDIT: apparently they accept crypto | sph wrote: | Not very anonymous when 99% of websites on the internet use | Google Analytics, so it's pretty easy to follow you around | the web. | smoldesu wrote: | True, but a bit of a moot point if both search engines | will indiscriminately route you to those websites | anyways. It's not like I'm opting-out of that issue by | using DuckDuckGo right now. | xigoi wrote: | Isn't Google Analytics blocked by pretty much any ad | blocker? | dpkirchner wrote: | Being able to block domains (without an extension) makes Kagi | at least 30% better on its own. Maybe more. It's absolutely a | killer feature and one that Google themselves used to have. | CyberDildonics wrote: | This is an advertisement. | rizky05 wrote: | [dead] | ezfe wrote: | Sir, this is Hacker News | goda90 wrote: | I don't see myself paying $10/month for search but I could see | myself paying even more for a bundle of services that included | search. Maybe a bunch of these companies that treat you like a | customer instead of a product for advertisers can partner up and | do a single login and subscription plan together. | daft_pink wrote: | Love Kagi. First search engine I've been willing to ditch google | for. | gchamonlive wrote: | It is the first time I hear a out kagi. What for me, as a | developer, would be the selling point for using kagi instead of | say phind.com? | rbmo wrote: | The very first thing that comes to mind is their domain filter | https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard | esafak wrote: | It's not focused on coding; it's general purpose. | hardcopy wrote: | I just signed up for ultimate two days ago. Oh well, I suppose | the extra $15 is going to a good cause. | | edit: You can switch pro-rated, nice. | SushiHippie wrote: | Ultimate will be worth it in the next couple of weeks, cool | features are coming ;) i'm in the beta and it's really great | bank for buck | user3939382 wrote: | Done. The price was my only problem. | m00dy wrote: | anyone paying for kagi here ? how's it comparing to duckduckgo | results ? | unshavedyak wrote: | Previously i used DDG and fell back to Startpage/Google | constantly. With Kagi, i can't remember the last time i did | that. I also get a lot of value out of FastGPT (a labs search | thing from Kagi). | | Overall, i'm very happy with my starter subscription. | CoryAlexMartin wrote: | Echoing what others have said. When I used DuckDuckGo, I would | have to resort to using Google all the time because Google's | results were often better. Since switching to Kagi, I never | feel the need to use Google anymore. | CobaltFire wrote: | It sounds hyperbolic, but using Kagi reminds me of back in 98 | or 99 when I first discovered Google. I can get results I want | every single time without wading through garbage. | | I'm happy to pay for it. | seventytwo wrote: | Been paying for Kagi for about a year now. It's great and worth | it. As good as google for search, but with much better tools | and basically zero ad spam. | r2_pilot wrote: | I've heard about it, signed up the other day, didn't use it. I | tried it today on a medical condition that's been hard to get | good info on, and while it wasn't the first hit, there was a | great reference fairly high up that I didn't find on Google. | I'm working on budgeting for yet another subscription as I | figure kagi will be my next go-to if AI doesn't outstrip it | first. And probably even then(sometimes you have to use the | Dead Internet). | sph wrote: | In my experience. | | DDG 6/10 | | Brave Search 7/10 | | Google 8/10 | | Kagi 9/10 | | Basically all I want is a search engine that does what I tell | it to do, and doesn't try to be smarter than me, because it is | not. My killer Kagi feature is the forum search. The only way | to get real human opinions on things, rather than regurgitated | blogspam that's pervasive on Google and even more on DDG and | other smaller engines. | neoromantique wrote: | Been a paying customer for a year now, it's very much worth it. | neysofu wrote: | I've been a paying customer for more than a year, in my | experience DDG is not even in the same league as Kagi. DDG | provides a noticeably worse search experience than Google for | most queries, whereas Kagi is either just as good or often | better than Google. | wellthisisgreat wrote: | i really wanted to ditch google and gave my best shot to DDG | and just couldn't use it, had to go to !g all the time. been | paying for Kagi close to a year and I only do !g when I am | proactively seeking to look at SEO spam | DanHulton wrote: | Been paying for a long while now, I expect I'll keep paying a | lot longer. It's very, very good. | | Occasionally, I'm on someone else's computer where I'm not | signed in to Kagi, and I try DDG first, but I frequently resort | to pulling out my phone and just searching there. | [deleted] | baliex wrote: | Would love some stats in the near future of whether Google et al. | are using these lists (blocked, lowered, raised, pinned) to their | advantage somehow. Having said that, they have the data | themselves, they just choose not to use it because it's not in | their best interests.. | https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard&k=1 | [deleted] | boringg wrote: | I think Kagi sounds interesting but the business model is a tough | one outside of niche HN types. E.g. I am interested but can't be | bothered to pursue it as it seems like an unnecessary additional | SAS model cost to my monthly budget. | | How does search quality really change my life? | | Entrenched behavior is tough to overcome especially ostensibly | free products. | sshine wrote: | > _How does search quality really change my life?_ | | A lot. I make dozens and dozens of searches on an average day. | | I'm also somewhat cheap when it comes to subscriptions. | | Throwing $10/mo. for something I can get "for free" is not a | light choice. But... 1) I don't like Google's | philosophy, I don't like being the product, I like being a | customer 2) Google Search results have gradually gotten | worse, mostly because of SEO spam 3) I don't really trust | DuckDuckGo or Startpage, their model is essentially also | advertising | | I still use Google Search / Maps when I want to buy something, | i.e., when I want ads. | | I prefer to not go to the mall for recreation or work either. | vorpalhex wrote: | How much time do you waste wading through bad search results? | | Would you pay $10/mo to fix that problem? | | For me, the answer has been yes. I don't think that is true of | everyone (but maybe some people can live in the free plan | limits!) | | I started with the free plan, made it my default search engine | and then tried to measure how often I felt like I had "lost | something" once my free tier was up. And yeah, having to go | back to Google or DuckDuckGo felt like I lost a really good | tool and was using a mediocre replacement. | sshine wrote: | > maybe some people can live in the free plan limits | | When the free plan was 50 searches, that lasted me less than | a day. | | Now that the free plan is 300 searches, it'd last me a few | days. | | It was enough for me to get hooked. | jwmcq wrote: | > How does search quality really change my life? | | Ask this to someone who remembers when Google first appeared. | | I am not a Kagi user, but am seriously considering it after a | number of months having to dig through at least 8 results of | paywalled or possibly AI-generated pages for almost every | Google query; seriously, I just did a search for 'python | concatenate list' on google and it was worse than I expected - | the official docs weren't even on the first two pages and even | the helpful Stack Overflow answers were the 5th result down - | give it a go, the results are trash. | | I google things at least 20 times a day, and probably so do | you. I would pay for something that can cut out the bollocks - | if Kagi can follow through, they'll have a customer. | rajamaka wrote: | I just ditched search altogether for questions like that and | use ChatGPT. Has improved my workflow so much. | constantly wrote: | Yep, I think I'm going to try Kagi. I am so, so tired and | exhausted of every search result on Google being "the top X | in ${this_month_of_this_year}" with a list of Amazon | affiliate links. I append Reddit to the searches for products | now, but notice on higher margin items you can click into | Reddit user history of people giving their "opinion" and see | that every post they make is about that particular product. | prepend wrote: | I'm waiting to pay $10/month for search+email. That I will do | as I also keep meaning to switch off gmail to a pay service. | iruoy wrote: | You can get unlimited email domains/accounts for $19/year. | Assuming you don't receive more than 200 emails a day. | | https://migadu.com/pricing/ | sshine wrote: | I pay $5/mo. for 30GB at FastMail, and $10/mo. for Kagi | Search. | | I switched away from Gmail years ago; the risk of getting | locked out of my digital identity with no recourse is worth | more than $5/mo. Not having my electronics receipts, plane | tickets and newsletters datamined for an improved ad | experience is just a perk. | carlosjobim wrote: | > How does search quality really change my life? | | There are tons of information workers who are dependent on | search in their work - or if they're not, could work much | better with good quality search. | | The examples are really too many to list, but it really depends | on the person. When it comes to not spending a dollar, people | will create the most incredible and reality-defying reasons. So | I'd expect 99% of Google users to keep using Google, or maybe | even stop using web search when Google becomes completely | unusable. Then they'll say "I have no need to search for things | anyway". | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _the business model is a tough one outside of niche HN types_ | | There are lucrative bundling opportunities. | | I am waiting fora corporate product; it's notable that Google | Workspace still subjects you to ads in search. That's not only | a data leak. It's also a constant attention tax on your | knowledge workers. | freediver wrote: | Vlad here from Kagi. We are building one, would you like to | chat? Would love to understand your needs. Please reach out | to vlad@kagi.com | bradgessler wrote: | Hi Vlad, | | You might want the blog to prominently link back to | https://kagi.com. "Home" took me to https://blog.kagi.com, | I tried clicking on the pricing table image, etc. but | nothing got me to the actual product. | | I had to manually enter https://kagi.com to see the product | behind the blog. | dcow wrote: | Search quality improves my life. Like actually I'm a happier | searcher since Kagi and I search more frequently because I have | increased confidence that I'll get meaningful results. I don't | grumble like I used to every time I had to wade through a pool | of SEO shit spam. But that's just me. | andrewaylett wrote: | Search needs to be paid for one way or another, the bill might | as well go to someone with my best interests in mind. | hellowoods wrote: | Presearch is decentralized, private, free, and pays you to run a | node. | | https://presearch.com | nipperkinfeet wrote: | Is it truly worth it? Nothing appears when I search for adult | content. The safe search function has been disabled. | kup0 wrote: | Adult searches work for me, I disabled safe search on | https://kagi.com/settings?p=privacy | | and it seems to be working fine? | prepend wrote: | I wish there was a way to just buy 10,000 searches as a block and | charge down against it. | | I don't search that much. I don't want another monthly service | fee. But I love the idea of paying for search. | | Id happily pay $5 for 300 searches, but don't want to do that | every month. | | This seems like the buffet or gym model where they want people | just mindlessly paying and then not using it that much. | dbrueck wrote: | I hear you, but it's also really hard from the service | provider's perspective because - for many people at least - the | allotment of searches starts to become a hinderance on using | it. | | By making it feel a finite resource, some percentage of the | users will start to ration their use of your service and/or do | some deliberation before using it ("I kinda want to look that | up, but I don't know if I want to spend one of my searches"), | and introducing that kind of usage friction can even lead to a | subtle resentment of your service. | arp242 wrote: | Yeah, exactly. I looked at Kagi last week (first time I had | heard of it), when the $10/month plan was "only" 1,000 | searches a month and "unlimited" was $25. While I _think_ | that I 'll probably stay well within 1,000 searches, I'm also | not sure, and it's just not something I want to have to worry | about (it's ~33/day on average and I doubt I'll ever hit it, | but still...) | | One of the reasons I decided to skip Kagi for now. | somsak2 wrote: | There's a reason most non-ad-supported, profitable SaaS | businesses have switched to a subscription. | TehShrike wrote: | You might want to look at rigging something up with their API. | To use their API, you pre-pay for credits - 25$ for 1000 | searches via the API. | dylan604 wrote: | >This seems like the buffet or gym model where they want people | just mindlessly paying and then not using it that much. | | I see this as the point to any subscription model. Of course | they want you paying for more than you use/consume. | chiefalchemist wrote: | Fair enough. Sell in bulk but have some minimum credits per | month requirement. More or less, use'em or lose'em. Not super | painful, they are paying customers :) But enough to keep it | fair to the vendor. This way there's a path to paying for | those who don't want or need a monthly unlimited | subscription. | dylan604 wrote: | I really liked the suggestion from somewhere else on this | topic of paying a set fee for an amount of credits to be | charged against. When the balance gets low, allow them to | re-up. Of course, there shouldn't be some BS type of | expiration date like food products or airline miles. Pay as | you type of plans. In that way, you are paying for exactly | what you use, and not just donating each month like it's a | charity. | LapsangGuzzler wrote: | True, but there's also the reality that maintenance costs | increase over time for software projects as upstream vendors | change their pricing models and codebases grow in size and | complexity. I can see why a product like Kagi wants to keep | their traffic tied to recurring revenue instead of selling a | bunch of credits upfront. | moonchrome wrote: | I think the point is having stable recurring revenue. Giving | you unlimited usage means on average you'll be paying more | than you use, but, unless you're seriously abusing it, you | can technically cost them more than you pay. | | Just like you can go to the gym every day - if everyone with | the membership did that they would not be able to function. | But it doesn't mean _you_ can 't. | prepend wrote: | Right and this is the reason I don't like subscriptions. | | Id rather buy things. | | I don't want a car subscription. I want to buy a car. | | I don't want a book subscription. I want to buy a car. | | I don't a compute subscription. I want to buy compute hours. | | Etc etc | rkagerer wrote: | >>I want to buy compute hours. | | Or a computER. | dylan604 wrote: | Back when Netflix/Prime were the king of paid premium (ad | free) streaming essentially being the only players, there | were definite months where I barely watched any content and | I was a pure source of subsidy for all the other viewers. | There are other times, where I swear they (Netflix) start | throttling my use to sub-VHS quality. Macroblocking the | size of your fist that looks like a 320x240 image scaled to | the size of my TV. | chiefalchemist wrote: | Cars are the one thing I don't want to buy. It's not an | asset. It depreciates. | | I'd like to pay a reasonable monthly subscription with a | small fee per mile once I go over some minimum for my tier. | | Once autonomous vehicles are stable, I'm presuming I'll be | able to hail a car in 5 or 10 mins via app. I guess the | only question is what to do in full-on emergencies. For | example, when the zombie apocalypse begins, or the aliens | final attack. How do I get out of town? | rfrey wrote: | Isn't that a lease? | adrianmonk wrote: | Similar use case that actually happens: hurricanes. | Entire large cities evacuate. The Miami and Houston metro | areas are both over 5 million in population. | | Forecasts give days of notice, so I guess an autonomous | vehicle ride-hailing service could have a million extra | cars drives themselves in overnight. But refueling them | would be a challenge. It's already a challenge for normal | cars today (without using more fuel by rearranging fleets | of cars between cities). | | Also, sometimes they change traffic flow for evacuations, | like contraflow lane reversal | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraflow_lane_reversal) | or using the shoulders as extra lanes. I wonder how well | autonomous vehicle software handles that. | karaterobot wrote: | I've been a Kagi customer since the beta, I'm still happy to pay | for the privacy and for certain UX improvements they have, for | instance being able to give higher or lower weight to different | websites in search results. I do _not_ think the quality of their | search is any better than DDG or Google. If I am being honest, it | 's actually worse for a lot of things, if you don't factor in | that you can block bad websites without a plugin. | | Even paying for Kagi, I _still_ go back to Google for any really | open-ended searches where the search engine 's ML can actually be | helpful. For known-item searches ("fandango showtimes Seattle"), | or simple searches ("pumpkin bread recipe") which are fully 90%+ | of what I search for, Kagi is just fine, and they aren't after my | identity (just my money). | runeofdoom wrote: | This is going to get me to try Kagi. | | I've thought about it several times, enough that I did track my | searches for a week. Between work, hobbies, and just life I | searched (overwhelmingly DDG and Bing) over a thousand times in a | week. (A evening of prep for my tabletop RPG racked up over a | hundred all by itself.) | | I've bailed on Google - wading though the flood of SEO'd garbage | just stopped being worth it. Bing and DDG have been mostly | working, but I definitely feel like they're missing something. | $10 a month is definitely worth it to try it out, and if it works | for me, worth it to keep paying. I'd been hesitating because | worrying about my search count seemed like a substantial negative | for me. | sshine wrote: | > over a thousand times in a week | | That's a lot! | | I perform 500-900 searches a month. | | I really enjoy Kagi's caching image search; it often lets me | avoid visiting websites when I'm just looking for graphics. | Going on Kagi and reading summaries and viewing cached material | gives me the "I don't feel like going out" vibe, but on the | Internet. One step closer to offline. | freeAgent wrote: | Be sure to look into the results customization options. You may | not need them, but they can also make the engine feel so much | more tuned to your needs. | Lammy wrote: | I like the "Blast from the Past" unit in search results. Real | sick of Google's neurotic obsession with recency as a stand-in | for relevance to the point that you can tell a lot of spammy | sites just fake ${CURRENT_YEAR}. | wkat4242 wrote: | Hmm most of the things I used search for are now covered by | ChatGPT (for which I use the api which costs cents). | | I don't think web search is still important enough for me to pay | for. A year ago it would have been. I originally signed up with | kagi but I wasn't too impressed and then they came with the | limited plans and that was it. Not sure if I'll go back now. | | And yeah like the article says it was priced for "silicon valley | bros". Even $10 is a lot on a Spanish salary still. But it's | doable and 300 for $5 is a decent deal IMO. I wouldn't do that | many. | gardenhedge wrote: | so is that better than using the chatgpt subscription? | wkat4242 wrote: | Much better imo and much cheaper unless you do 200 chats per | day or something :P | | Why is it better? More integration capabilities. You're not | limited to the webpage and app, you can use it anywhere you | want. Not constantly kicking me out to log in again every few | days (their web does this). The ability to select the model | and temperature (a measure of how creative the LLM is). Also | the default model seems to be much more recent. | | And the price. If you use it sparingly you might be paying as | little as 20 cents a month instead of 20 dollars. Not | exaggerating but it depends on the size of questions and | responses. But really to make it cost as much as that 20$ per | month with the API you really have to go hell for leather | with it. | frabcus wrote: | I also really like that I'm learning tooling that lets me | easily switch model provider later. | ghostpepper wrote: | what do you use to hit the api? is there a good CLI tool for | linux? | _nhynes wrote: | I use the OpenAI playground because I'm paranoid that third | party frontends will steal my API keys and I don't have | enough time to audit the code or set up firewall rules. | wkat4242 wrote: | You can set up a spending limit on the API anyway. It's | pretty low risk IMO. | Zetobal wrote: | Not the op but I use chatblade[0] on the cli, chatgpt-next- | web[1] as webgui and quivr[2] for multimodal stuff | files/images/audio/video. atm everything goes over a azure | openai endpoint but would love to infere an llm locally. | | [0] https://github.com/npiv/chatblade | | [1] https://github.com/Yidadaa/ChatGPT-Next-Web/ | | [2] https://github.com/StanGirard/quivr | nani8ot wrote: | chatgpt-cli is a great tui | frabcus wrote: | Simon Willison's `llm` is an excellent command line client, | and now has `llm chat` as well as `-c` for ongoing | conversations. | | https://llm.datasette.io/en/stable/ | wkat4242 wrote: | I use the ChatGPT bot for matrix mainly. I've tried some | other frontends that are more like ChatGPT web but I keep | going back to matrix because it's just so handy. I have all | my other chats in there too, through bridges. | TheRealPomax wrote: | Much like youtube, I'm fine paying $10/yr, but $10/mo is pretty | steep. | RantyDave wrote: | Aside, possibly, but didn't Kagi used to be a company that | collected money for shareware authors or am I hallucinating? | jorams wrote: | Yes. Quoting Wikipedia[1]: | | > Kagi.com was an e-commerce micropayment platform often used | for shareware and e-book purchases, operating from Sept 1994 to | July 2016. | | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagi | kup0 wrote: | Excited to see this. Thinking about using this on mobile and all | PCs I use now that there is no worry about hitting a quota. | HNArg024 wrote: | I almost never comment here on HN (or anywhere actually), but I | feel the need to express how happy I am that I found (lost in a | comment a few days ago) this service. | | For the past three or so years I have tried half a dozen times to | leave Google Search. Tried DDG, Brave Search and some others I | can't remember now. But the "poor" quality of results had me | going to Google for half of my searches, and after a while, just | Google again, for convenience. | | Now, I'm at 44/100 trial searches and I already know I'm going to | pay for this. It's like using Google on 2008 plus without ads. It | just work wonders, and I haven't even started to play with the | filter to raise/lower certain domains, which I think it's a | fantastic tool to have. | | Great work Kagi Team! | t0bia_s wrote: | I don't like the idea of tightening search queries to credit | card, however they add option to pay by crypto... That is good | approach. But still I refuse to pay subscription model for | product that I wouldn't use regularly. | richardw wrote: | Keen to try it. I would worry that over time, poor people | wouldn't get access as they do with ad-supported services. Maybe | search credit donations could be pooled somehow, so I could do $5 | for me, $2.50 for students/emerging economies. | xlii wrote: | I dropped of Kagi after price change, mostly because I don't | think search hit should be something I need to keep in mind when | using search engine. | | This is a change in good direction, and I'll happily check it | once again. | zamadatix wrote: | How many is unlimited? Presumably they don't get unlimited | searches for $10 and, inevitably, someone will use more than they | planned for. How much more than they expected is considered "fair | use" or however they want to term it and why can't I know that | before I sign up instead of guess I'm within what they are | thinking? | zakary wrote: | Whatever the cap is, I'm sure it's a lot higher than google | will let you do before they start rate limiting you or making | you do a captcha for every search. Pretty much all search | services have some cap, after which they will put up roadblocks | to slow you down | Lammy wrote: | I've been getting captchaed by Google just for using | `intitle:` or `inurl:` modifiers. | gretch wrote: | > I'm sure it's a lot higher than google will let you do | before they start rate limiting you | | Do you have any basis for this assumption? | gkbrk wrote: | Google throws me around 4-5 CAPTCHAs a month with regular | usage. So far, Kagi hasn't made me do any "find the | firehoses". | gnud wrote: | I'm assuming they disallow bot use in their TOS. So they can | probably offer unlimited searches that you run yourself by | typing in the terms. | crisp wrote: | While I think your questions are definitely relevant, in | practice, you search less than you think. | | I consider myself as a heavy search engine user but, based on | Kagi stats, I was surprised how much less I actually searched | compared to my estimate. My actual range is about 500-800 | queries a month when I originally estimated upwards 1500 | queries a month. | | Same thing with my friends. | dcminter wrote: | You can block domains you don't want to see results from. With | that feature I'm not sure it even needs to deliver better results | than Google to be compelling. | wackget wrote: | Call me tight-fisted or naive or whatever but I don't see | $10/month as a remotely attractive price point and I don't see | how they can justify it, especially when their results are still | powered at least in part by external indexers. | | $10/month can get you terabytes of media on streaming platforms. | | $1-2/month is what I would pay. | user3939382 wrote: | It's a very fair price. If anything we have to hope it's enough | that they can survive. | europeanNyan wrote: | At the end of the day, it comes down to what your time is worth | to you. I do about 1500 searches per month and paying 10EUR per | month for those searches to actually be relevant makes it a no | brainer. | MrVandemar wrote: | You're not paying for terabytes of media. You are paying for | time and a reduced cognitive load. | | I think it's a fair price if you live in the US. I'd pay it, | except I don't live in the US and our currency isn't great at | the moment, and I don't exactly get overpaid at my job, and the | cost of everything is rising, so I personally can't afford it | ATM. But it seems reasonable to me. | carlosjobim wrote: | Assuming you've already paid $10 for your terabytes of | streaming and that wasn't the last dollar you owned, how does | paying for a completely different thing relate to your media | streaming? | | I can buy potatoes that last me for a week for the same price | as for what I'd pay to just get a coffee, but if I've already | bought my potatoes and have money to spare, why couldn't I buy | also the coffee? | apricot wrote: | I mostly use Duckduckgo these days but fall back on Google for | non-English searches because DDG is lacking in that area. | | Kagi users, how good is Kagi for non-English searches? | warpspin wrote: | Can only speak for German searches, but the results are good | there. | sshine wrote: | For Danish searches, simple queries get confused with | Norwegian/Swedish results. | | Admittedly, I haven't said anywhere that I prefer Danish | results when the query is the same in two languages. My | operating system and browser are not configured to reveal my | nationality. The only way Kagi would know is if they factored | in my IP address. Which I can deduce that they don't. I prefer | it that way. | uasi wrote: | For me, Japanese search quality is on par with Google most of | the time. | joshstrange wrote: | This is great news. I've been paying for a couple months now and | I've been happy with the results and the previous limits weren't | something I even needed to worry about in the end (I did worry at | the start but only because I had no idea how many searches I do | to gauge which plan I needed). | lordfrito wrote: | This is great I just signed up! Been wanting to bail on free | search for a while now, hoping paid search will prioritize users | needs above all else. Crossing fingers they can go the distance, | scale, and stick around a while. | pjmq wrote: | I've been a paying subscriber to Kagi for over a year and I'm sad | to say it just gets in my way and I often find myself just | wishing I was using Google. | | I've kept it thus far because I believe in the mission but man... | I get why other promising search engines have fallen to Google. | hosteur wrote: | > I'm sad to say it just gets in my way | | Care to elaborate on how it gets in your way? And what, in your | opinion, Google does better? I use Kagi myself and I am very | happy with it. | BoppreH wrote: | Three years ago, I migrated from Gmail to FastMail because I was | afraid of losing access to my digital life on Google's whim. | | Two years ago, I found out that my favorite Youtube creators were | all on Nebula. | | One year ago, I switched my phone to LineageOS to get security | updates a little longer. | | A month ago, I installed OpenStreetMaps because Google Maps got | really bad at showing points-of-interest. | | And today, Kagi removed the only obstacle that kept me on Google | Search. I'm looking forward to building my filter list. | | After accidentally de-googlifying myself, I might ditch Windows | next. It feels really nice using products that respect me, as | opposed to services that are actively hostile because of | advertisers. | rjh29 wrote: | Yeah you sound like someone who should not be using Windows in | any way shape or form. The telemetry and lack of control? Try | Linux out. | BoppreH wrote: | I'm wary of telemetry, but willing to accept it. It's the | lack of _respect_ that gets to me. "Yes/Maybe Later"? | Showing me a fake Windows update screen once a month to try | to get me to use an online account and switch to Edge? | Starting a Bing search when the start menu doesn't recognize | an application's name? Pre-installing games with | advertisement and microtransactions? | | It's a commercial operating system, for Christ's sake, stop | pushing sleazy features. They are quickly burning through all | the trust acquired over decades. | aidenn0 wrote: | Yeah, Windows 8 was kind of ineffably bad. I know exactly | effing why Windows 10 is bad; nothing ineffable about it. | vanchor3 wrote: | My favorite was when they wanted everyone to switch over | from Internet Explorer to Edge (this was before support was | dropped), so attempting to search "Internet Explorer" in | the start menu caused it to override it with Edge instead. | | This of course was quite annoying because we still had many | applications at the time that (unfortunately) required | Internet Explorer. It was even more annoying because when | attempting to get to "Internet Options" or "File Explorer", | it automatically replaced those with Edge, which is not at | all helpful. | | This effort was also completely undone by the fact that if | you misspelled Internet Explorer it would still come right | up as the first option. | | I'm still upset that they've removed most Control Panel | results from the start menu search as well, because after | all these years the Settings app is still incomplete. | VHRanger wrote: | The only lockin I have remaining to windows is video games | really | underdeserver wrote: | Check out Proton. | justinclift wrote: | Anyone know if the "Universal Summarizer" is reliable, or does it | make stuff up? | pdx6 wrote: | I think $5-$10 is a good price point for just the privacy aspect. | As far as search, it's about 90% kagi and 10% Google if I don't | like the kagi results. Maps could use some work and I'm always | jumping back into Google maps. | | I don't use any of the other features. | distract8901 wrote: | I'm kind of shocked to see a company in this day and age making | their service more affordable as it becomes more popular. | | I'm very happy with this service. Worth every cent and then some. | avereveard wrote: | I would really love to see an API, possibly with a pay per | request pricing. | baggachipz wrote: | They do have exactly such a thing: | https://help.kagi.com/kagi/api/overview.html | bugglebeetle wrote: | Any of the DDG search libraries on GiHub + ChatGPT-turbo-3.5 | is cheaper than this, especially if you need to do a lot of | searches and then apply a heuristic to narrow them down. | Doesn't seem very competitive. | avereveard wrote: | Ah wonderful! Looks fairly inexpensive as well, and they have | a summarisation option that seems great, I'll need to play a | bit with it. | [deleted] | p3rls wrote: | A good deal worse than google for results in my niche (Korean | entertainment). Oh well. | arealaccount wrote: | This is great, I did the trial and the reason I chose to not | continue is I hated having to think "is this search worth it" for | everything. | james2doyle wrote: | I like the statement they made on their jobs page: | | Core Front-end Team | | Passion for creating delightful and swift user interfaces. | | Proficiency in HTML, CSS, and _an understanding that JavaScript | can be used sparingly to enhance, not create, product | experiences._ | | Ability to prototype rapidly. | | Fun fact: At Kagi, we prioritize speed, to the point where *all | functionalities of Kagi Search (except Stripe checkout and Maps) | work perfectly without JavaScript*. We see JavaScript as a tool | to enhance the UX, not create it. | threatofrain wrote: | Ah, their backend is in Crystal! | zelphirkalt wrote: | That frontend team statement alone makes it almost worth | switching and thereby supporting their work. It is rare these | days to hear such wise words. | autoexec wrote: | I like the sound of it, but I do notice that the link | https://kagi.com/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2... | which someone posted elsewhere in this discussion as an example | doesn't work with JS disabled. | jorams wrote: | It should work without JS. It even works in eww (in Emacs). | Looking at the source of the page, there's a redirect (meta | http-equiv="refresh") wrapped in a <noscript>-tag to the same | URL but with "/html" before the path.[1]. It seems the | browser you tried doesn't handle that. | | [1]: https://kagi.com/html/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&s | h=Qd... | tills13 wrote: | In my opinion, in not using JavaScript they are missing out on | a really nice DX. This is the kind of app that could be highly | optimized _despite_ using React or something similar. Knee- | capping your hiring to Make A Point (tm) is silly. | james2doyle wrote: | Nice DX at the cost of UX. | | The current state of web development has been ruined by | putting developer experience over user experience. A great | example that was shared on HN a few days ago: | https://ericwbailey.website/published/modern-health- | framewor... | | This person couldn't use the site. But at least the developer | got to see red squiggles when they didn't format their object | properly! | | If you see "not using JS as much" as knee-capping your | hiring, then you are putting your personal preferences ahead | of what is good for the users. | rkagerer wrote: | Can someone offer some history on Kagi? It's founder / roots? I'm | curious. | | Also what specific features are in the mysterious Ultimate plan? | | And what was the domain before it was a search engine? | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12200972 | | Thanks! | sshine wrote: | > what specific features are in the mysterious Ultimate plan? | | Ultimate used to be unlimited searches. | | Now that the Professional plan is unlimited, this seems like a | quick attempt to provide some value to those with Ultimate. My | bet is that many will move to Professional, those who stay will | mainly do it for the support, and the mystery is just a cherry | on top. I'm guessing extended API and AI features are among the | coming features. | [deleted] | lmm wrote: | What's the language support like? I can find what I need in | English, but I really struggle to find good search results in | Japanese - but if that isn't something they've been paying | attention to then they're unlikely to be good at it. | xigoi wrote: | Is there any tool you can run on your browser history to | determine whether 300 searches/month would be enough for you? ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-09-21 23:00 UTC)