[HN Gopher] Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Unlimited Kagi searches for $10 per month
        
       Author : darthShadow
       Score  : 417 points
       Date   : 2023-09-21 20:32 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.kagi.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.kagi.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | late25 wrote:
       | Interesting the HN crowd is into this for the simple fact that
       | you must be logged in (and presumably tracked?) to use it.
        
         | prh8 wrote:
         | It's not tracked, that's (part of) the whole point
        
         | jkubicek wrote:
         | I have other ways to search anonymously. For 95% of my searches
         | I'm happy to have my search history tracked, used to drive
         | better results for me in the future and available for me to
         | browse if I want to. As long as Kagi isn't selling my search
         | history to another company, I actually prefer that they track
         | my search history.
         | 
         | Note: currently Kagi doesn't track search history; I hope they
         | find a way to enable it in the future.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | freeAgent wrote:
         | Kagi doesn't currently retain search history. It's set for
         | future opt-in, but can't be enabled as yet.
        
       | t0astbread wrote:
       | Browsing the site on Tor Browser gave me a Google 403 page until
       | I cycled circuits a few times. Makes perfect sense given the blog
       | is hosted on GCP but it did make me pause initially and consider
       | if that was some sort of joke I'm not getting.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Bueno!
        
       | ghostpepper wrote:
       | This is great - I have been a happy subscriber for almost a year
       | I think.
       | 
       | My biggest complaint with Kagi is not their fault - it's the
       | inability to set custom search engines on Safari (and no, I'm not
       | interested in installing a custom browser extension).
        
         | slikrick wrote:
         | if you don't want to install a browser extension then safari
         | having customizable search engines wouldn't help you anyways.
         | you would need to login to the account which is additionally
         | functionality that wouldn't be provided without the extensioj
        
         | daft_pink wrote:
         | I was skeptical about this as well but I caved and did it. It's
         | amazing how hard different browsers have made it to add a
         | search engine
        
       | bob_theslob646 wrote:
       | I don't understand what's wrong with charging money for a service
       | that to the best of my knowledge doesn't serve you ads?
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | It's far less profitable than the advertising model.
         | Unfortunately, most tech companies are VC-backed and optimize
         | for profits.
         | 
         | It also introduces adoption friction for users who are used to
         | things being "free" on the internet, which hurts the
         | hypergrowth shareholders want to see.
        
       | pbarnes_1 wrote:
       | Is there a dark mode?
       | 
       | The example (https://kagi.com/search?q=steve+jobs) doesn't seem
       | to respect my system theme on macOS.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Is there a dark mode?_
         | 
         | Here is Kagi's quick answer [0], where its AI "extracts and
         | summarizes the important content from the search results
         | including links to the source material":
         | 
         | "Kagi supports dark mode functionality to reduce eye
         | strain.[1][2] Users can select between the Royal Blue or Moon
         | Dark default themes in their appearance settings. Additionally,
         | the Orion browser powered by Kagi includes dark mode that can
         | be toggled on websites.[3]"
         | 
         | [0] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/getting-started/#summarize-
         | result...
         | 
         | [1] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/settings/appearance.html
         | 
         | [2] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/support-and-community/open-
         | source...
         | 
         | [3] https://blog.kagi.com/orion-new-features
        
           | pbarnes_1 wrote:
           | Ah, when not logged in, it defaults to light mode.
           | 
           | When I logged in with my Google account, it detected the
           | system setting.
        
         | somsak2 wrote:
         | Interesting example for a search. I found a few things that
         | seem like bit like basic misses:
         | 
         | * the regular wikipedia as the first result, and the mobile
         | version of the same page as fourth one
         | 
         | * Links to https://steveblank.com/2009/06/18/epitaph-for-an-
         | entrepreneu..., which never mentions Steve Jobs
         | 
         | * the above link also has the wrong date attached (Kagi thinks
         | it was published Jul 17, 2023)
        
         | bionade24 wrote:
         | Yes, even multiple themes. You can choose between detection of
         | the system preference, light and dark mode. The setting is
         | bound to your account, which I like, but I don't search much on
         | my phone outdoors.
        
         | cobertos wrote:
         | TIL that there was a light mode. I've been in dark mode since I
         | started using it
        
       | egonschiele wrote:
       | A lot of comments mention privacy. Could someone explain who can
       | see my searches at Kagi? My experience working at startups is
       | that companies are very lax with customer PII. With a product
       | like this, I have to assume every engineer at Kagi can see every
       | search I make.
        
       | raybb wrote:
       | > Universal Summarizer, which can summarize unlimited-length
       | documents, audio, and video!
       | 
       | Any plans to let you paste in text or a PDF yet? It's quite
       | annoying to have to upload the audio files somewhere to get a
       | summary.
        
         | raybb wrote:
         | Edit: also would be nice is kagi transcribed videos when there
         | are no transcripts available.
         | 
         | For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmr9NzxjUA just
         | says
         | 
         | "Sorry, a problem occurred while processing your request.
         | Please try again later."
        
       | ezekiel68 wrote:
       | Also happy Kagi customer. It is my default search and I get much
       | less fluff in the results than I did with big G. So happy it
       | respects search modifiers!
        
       | jmholla wrote:
       | Glad they found a way to to walk back the limited search count
       | (especially when so many things you wouldn't think counted did).
       | Might have to re-enable my account now.
       | 
       | Previous discussion about the prior change:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35078392 (226 Comments)
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | Now you're priced to sell.
       | 
       | Have you done a formal price optimization? There are no priced
       | competitors to pressure you to stick to a price point so you have
       | leeway to experiment.
        
       | okasaki wrote:
       | I definitely wouldn't want to associate my entire search history
       | with my real identity
        
         | jamiek88 wrote:
         | They don't keep logs and if you don't trust that, they accept
         | crypto.
         | 
         | Also, do you really think google doesn't know who you are?
         | 
         | One would have to go to extraordinary lengths to hide your real
         | name nowadays from even a talented curious searcher never mind
         | google itself.
         | 
         | Even Ross Ulnricht couldn't do it. And that boy had a LOT to
         | lose.
        
         | sph wrote:
         | Neither do I, which is why I don't use Google.
        
         | CobaltFire wrote:
         | They offer crypto payments, and you can cycle accounts through
         | throwaway emails.
         | 
         | Vlad has addressed this several times; it's a planned use case.
         | They offer it because though they don't keep logs they don't
         | expect everyone to trust that.
         | 
         | I can't find the comment but he just addressed it a couple days
         | ago here on HN.
        
       | badrabbit wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | wellthisisgreat wrote:
         | > Who wants to start a company selling fresh bottled air? Lol.
         | 
         | i wish i could downvote this 100x. Peak bad NH stuff.
         | 
         | Kagi is actually one of the few good new products out there
         | that tackle fundamental user needs.
        
           | badrabbit wrote:
           | I respect your desire to downvote me but I respectfullu
           | disagree after signing up and using them.
           | 
           | "Bad HN stuff" is lazy argument. They sell google searches
           | and their value is "we promise". Bad HN stuff is how the HN
           | crowd loves to hate on commercial VPN providers who have the
           | same business model but the Kagi dude speaks and talks like
           | your crowd so you rally around this product.
           | 
           | As if DDG didn't do the same thing for free. ADs were never
           | the problem, the way ads work in search was the problem.
           | 
           | One of the first lessons I learned on the internet is never
           | to trust online services on their word alone and that what
           | you post online (search in this case) is there to stay
           | forever.
           | 
           | You know what made me swtich from indifferent to opposing
           | Kagi? After my trial ended, i kept searching for stuff in my
           | nav bar, historical hits come up and when I select them,
           | boom, Kagi paywall!
           | 
           | That's why my challenge to Kagi is if they ask money for what
           | DDG and like a dozen other competitors offer for free with
           | privacy promises similar to Kagi, then at least offer
           | insurance and put their money where their mouth is if they're
           | going to ask for people's money.
           | 
           | Also, search results after you stop paying shouldn't go back
           | on paywall, you paid already for it!
           | 
           | I commented fully expecting to get downvoted as I do now, but
           | you haven't countered my fairly reasonable assertions.
        
       | crisp wrote:
       | Happy customer here. Kagi is by far the best search engine there
       | is.
       | 
       | When I first started using Kagi a year ago or so, I compared
       | results with Google every now and then.
       | 
       | Now? Never.
       | 
       | 10 bucks a month for a tool that I use multiple times every
       | single day is more than reasonable. The results hit home
       | virtually every time.
       | 
       | There are variety of features to customize your searches but
       | truthfully, I never found the need for them. I've only
       | blocked/deprioritized some domains, that's it. The results are
       | just so good.
        
         | sva_ wrote:
         | > 10 bucks a month for a tool that I use multiple times every
         | single day is more than reasonable.
         | 
         | This number really varies based on where you live, and there is
         | no pricing model that accounts for this. I suppose it is mostly
         | just aimed at Americans.
        
           | somsak2 wrote:
           | This is a company, not a charity.
        
           | jchw wrote:
           | Some platforms actually do account for this by having special
           | "developing countries" discounts, or some other euphemism
           | like that. IIRC Gumroad is one that supports this.
        
             | somsak2 wrote:
             | Pretty funny that when textbook publishers try to do this,
             | people really hate it.
        
         | ukd1 wrote:
         | Ditto; also happy customer, been paying for a long time now,
         | never looked back money wise, or to google.
         | 
         | My experience trying switching with duckduckgo (repeatedly)
         | always failed; checking google, unhappy with ddg results. Kagi,
         | not so.
        
         | carlossouza wrote:
         | I also stopped using Google, but I have replaced it with
         | Perplexity.ai...
         | 
         | Have you ever used Perplexity? How does Kagi compare with it?
        
           | t0bia_s wrote:
           | Interesting, thanks for tip.
        
           | melvinmelih wrote:
           | I'm still on the free Perplexity plan but it has already
           | replaced my Google search by a lot. I'm a huge fan. Haven't
           | tried Kagi yet though.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | That's awesome that it's so flexible. Can you search using
         | symbols? Like if I'm trying to search "what is %" will it bring
         | back results regarding the percentage sign, or results that
         | start with the words "what is"?
         | 
         | That's my major problem with google. Sometimes I need to search
         | info on a symbol, and I don't know what it's called yet, so I
         | have to perform another search, just to perform the one I
         | actually care about.
        
           | desperate wrote:
           | ^^^^ this is so frustrating to me.
        
           | jorams wrote:
           | I've generally found searching for symbols to work quite
           | well. It's a mixture of the two. You can check the results
           | for "what is %" here: https://kagi.com/search?q=what+is+%25&r
           | =no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2...
        
             | IshKebab wrote:
             | Why do your search links work, but the ones from Kagi's own
             | "Features" page just take me to a login page?
        
               | jorams wrote:
               | It looks like the like the blog post linked to by
               | Features links to plain search page URLs, which only work
               | for logged-in users. I used the Share feature to get a
               | sharable link. I guess that page needs to be updated.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | turnsout wrote:
         | Weird question, but: what do you search for?
         | 
         | I switched to DuckDuckGo a while back but I'm not a heavy
         | searcher. I would be curious to know your typical use cases!
        
           | ghayes wrote:
           | I search a lot for programming topics and when I get
           | frustrated I switch to Google and get literally the same
           | results. I'd say it's pretty good for web search and keeps up
           | to date.
           | 
           | The downside is things like Sports and other knowledge items
           | which shows a widget I've never understood in my life.
        
           | crisp wrote:
           | Mainly tech/programming stuff for which Kagi is outstanding.
           | Lately I've searched a lot about a city (restaurants, places
           | to visit, events, ...) I moved in and it works for that too.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | h4x0rr wrote:
         | So would you say it's on-par with google results or even
         | better?
        
           | r3trohack3r wrote:
           | For me, it's substantially better.
           | 
           | The results are good by default. But you can change the
           | ranking of sites in your results, so every search is custom
           | to you.
           | 
           | I pin documentation sites like MDN and pkg.go.dev and
           | penalize SEO span sites.
           | 
           | My results are custom to me and my workflows, it's pretty
           | hard to go back at this point.
           | 
           | Kagi is one of the stickiest subscription services I have.
        
           | andyjohnson0 wrote:
           | In my experience it's far, far better than google search. The
           | ability to boost some domains and block others is invaluable.
           | 
           | But also, because you're the customer not the product, you
           | don't have to contend with Google's ad-driven search results
           | and their privacy violating bs. Totally worth the money.
           | 
           | (Kagi user since the beta, paying user since they started
           | offering subscriptions.)
        
           | rg111 wrote:
           | Not GP, but from my end- a big yes! Also better than DDG,
           | which is better than Google nowadays. I also use phind and
           | code.you.com.
        
           | wellthisisgreat wrote:
           | google search is only good if you want to know "what the
           | corporate hive mind thinks what their idea of an average
           | consumer should think about it"
        
           | daft_pink wrote:
           | I think it is better most of the time because:
           | 
           | - it combines the top 10 this or that list into listicles
           | that are aggregated into their own section and I find to
           | often be full of spam - it lets you block or deprioritize any
           | site you want like quora, medium, Forbes, that often give me
           | useless or incorrect info or are just their to boost so - it
           | lets you prioritize sites you like in the search ranking - it
           | doesn't have blocked or censored keywords - it lets you
           | specify by date or time quickly and easily which I find to be
           | beneficial and google seems to hide it constantly move around
           | in news
           | 
           | It's weaker for like looking up a phone number or hours for a
           | local eatery, but in general I like it better.
        
           | NobodyNada wrote:
           | Yes, its results are far better than Google's. Google results
           | are full of SEO spam, marketing pages, etc. Kagi tends to
           | surface official documentation, blog posts, online
           | discussion/Q&A. Overall, it does a very good job highlighting
           | "real" content rather than "artificial" content. Plus, you
           | can personalize it by boosting/downranking/blocking sites,
           | creating regex rewrite rules on URLs, etc.
        
         | TradingPlaces wrote:
         | $9 now. Just signed up for the annual; 10% off
        
         | cobertos wrote:
         | I've been using Kagi for about a year now as well and have been
         | very happy. I find that I still go back to Google when I am
         | ready to purchase a product or find a local service. In this
         | case, I find that I'm generally happy with the people who are
         | paying money for search placement (either directly to Google or
         | for hardcore SEO) and find I can get less "fly-by-night" type
         | companies that way.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | that's funny as the fly-by-night companies in my experience
           | are the ones spending all of their efforts to win the SEO to
           | get those clicks where the established companies can be found
           | by less sleazy methods
        
         | mongol wrote:
         | Can the search result quality be quantified somehow? I remember
         | when Google was new, and I used to use Altavista and Hotbot and
         | those older search engines, the difference in results were like
         | night and day, and Google's results were "wow!"
         | 
         | Does Kagi give a similar impression as Google did then?
        
           | prennert wrote:
           | you can try it out. They give you 100 free searches.
        
           | distract8901 wrote:
           | Kagi is as good as google _used_ to be. It doesn 't have that
           | same 'wow' effect because we've all experienced what good
           | search is.
           | 
           | It feels like turning on your ad blocker. It's what web
           | search was supposed to be all along. It isn't that it's
           | better than Google, Google is just so much worse now.
           | 
           | I'm extremely happy with it. Just the ability to block
           | Pinterest from my results forever is worth the price.
        
             | dcow wrote:
             | I do think Kagi adds features that improve on what Google
             | offered in its heyday and saying meh there's nothing _new_
             | doesn 't capture the full picture, but I generally
             | understand your vibe.
        
           | seventytwo wrote:
           | It's not that Kagi is _better_ at search, it's that Kagi is
           | cleaner and more efficient. It doesn't do bullshit dark
           | patterns, reward SEO, track the shit out of you, or hide
           | valuable tools.
           | 
           | I'm a huge fan of the lenses feature. Specifically for
           | technical searches... I can filter for forums only or PDFs
           | only or academic stuff only.
        
             | pierat wrote:
             | > It's not that Kagi is better at search, it's that Kagi is
             | cleaner and more efficient. It doesn't do bullshit dark
             | patterns, reward SEO, track the shit out of you, or hide
             | valuable tools.
             | 
             | Yet.
             | 
             | Google did the same originally. Super clean, just delivered
             | whatever was searched for; no more, no less.
             | 
             | When Kagi gets a taste of how much money is available for
             | tracking and profiling users. and theyll start small. And
             | since you have to be logged in to do searches, everything
             | is already pre-tracked. Then its only a matter of recording
             | and selling (on the sly) to data brokers.
             | 
             | I used not to be this jaded. But its watching the same
             | thing again and again is why I wait for it this time
             | around. All good things do indeed come to an end.
        
               | askvictor wrote:
               | Not just that, but it's not really on the radar of SEO.
               | If they get big, SEO will probably lead to the same
               | enshitification as happened to Google.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _Can the search result quality be quantified somehow?_
           | 
           | Encourage you to try it. I've repeated Scott Galloway's
           | mantra that advertisement is a tax on America's poor and
           | stupid. But I never quite clocked the cost of search ads. It
           | might be solely due to that lack of scrolling through crud
           | that makes Kagi seem much, much faster than Google or
           | DuckDuckGo.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Isn't that the same thing said about Lotto/scratch-
             | offs/etc?
        
           | crisp wrote:
           | I think I belong to the generation that grew up using just
           | Google so I cannot comment on quantification.
           | 
           | The biggest difference for me is that on Kagi, the first
           | results are always relevant instead of clutter/ads that you
           | see on Google.
        
             | mypetocean wrote:
             | I've been around to compare them all (and used to spend
             | countless hours doing search engine research on Fravia's
             | "web search lores" website).
             | 
             | Google represented a huge step up in search result quality
             | generally. But in recent years, the quality has really slid
             | - even while tuning results using more advanced Google
             | features.
             | 
             | I don't think Google cares much about search result quality
             | these days, except insofar as they have to keep a minimum
             | threshold just to drive their ad and analytics revenue.
             | 
             | There is a lot of opportunity for other search engines to
             | make strides forward in quality relative to Google these
             | days.
        
             | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
             | That's how Google was when I was a kid
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | Yes, in many ways, such as the proportion of items on the
           | first page of a query response that are relevant.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_measures_(informati.
           | ..
        
           | adamsb6 wrote:
           | I'm just a week into using it, but one of the things I've
           | noticed is that for technical queries official docs are
           | ranked a lot higher than random blogs and those sites that
           | just repackage content they scraped from Stack Overflow.
           | 
           | I don't know if they're putting a finger on the scale, or
           | maybe they're just doing the original Google thing of ranking
           | sites that seem to be where the search terminates higher, but
           | it's good.
        
           | svaha1728 wrote:
           | If you evaluate Kagi make sure to play around with the
           | "Personalized Results" settings. I find as a programmer, I
           | love the ability to push blogs and resources I like up to the
           | top of the list. You can check out the leaderboard to see,
           | globally what sites get blocked or raised:
           | https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard
        
             | robocat wrote:
             | #4 pinned is hacker news!!! So clearly big crossover
             | between HN fans and kagi. 8,629 Members.
             | 
             | Top Blocked (from most blocked):
             | 
             | pinterest.com/.co.uk/.ca/.de/.fr/.com.au/.es facebook.com
             | foxnews.com tiktok.com quora.com w3schools.com
             | breitbart.com dailymail.co.uk appsloveworld.com
             | instagram.com githubplus.com geeksforgeeks.org libhunt.com
             | twitter.com msn.com healthline.com solveforum.com
             | 9to5answer.com alternativeto.net giters.com wikihow.com
             | nypost.com codegrepper.com issuehint.com cnn.com educba.com
             | coder.social linkedin.com geekrepos.com kknews.cc
             | bleepcoder.com amazon.com programcreek.com forbes.com
             | newbedev.com drivereasy.com medium.com lightrun.com you.com
             | reddit.com webmd.com blog.csdn.net nytimes.com
             | washingtonpost.com
        
               | shermozle wrote:
               | Oh man I blocked all these when I first started using it
               | and haven't even thought of it since. Now I realise how
               | much Pinterest and W3Schools not showing up has improved
               | my life!
        
               | HanClinto wrote:
               | I've generally really loved w3schools for their tutorials
               | -- I've been using them to teach my kids web programming
               | and whatnot recently and generally been happy with them.
               | Is there something I'm missing about it? Maybe it's
               | because we have really good ad-blockers running, but
               | their content seems fine and (generally?) not terribly
               | "lifted" from other sites (I.E., just SEO spam).
               | 
               | Is there a replacement for them that fills the same gap
               | for web reference / tutorials?
        
           | rg111 wrote:
           | I read some days back on HN that even Yandex is better than
           | Google nowadays. And I apologoze for shilling a Russian
           | company, but it is true! For some queries, Yandex is better
           | than Google.
           | 
           | I have replaced Google completely with DDG for most searches,
           | ChatGPT for some things, GitHub Copilot for mundane code
           | questions, phind or code.you.com for things requiring more
           | search, and Kagi for things requiring much more searching.
           | 
           | I use Google only now for nearby searches like "gas stations
           | near me", etc.
           | 
           | I never really thought that this day would come. I love Kagi
           | for being able to block Pinterest from everywhere,
           | GeeksforGeeks, etc.
        
             | pierat wrote:
             | Oh Yandex is AWESOME, especially for tech, porn, and
             | piracy. None of its blocked. I get exactly what I'm looking
             | for. No bullshit.
             | 
             | And I don't care if it is Russian. Tells me that the US
             | government wont be buying search history from them, or
             | cooperating in any capacity. Thats actually a double-good.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | They used to have a US office, which got me wondering if
               | they're obligated to sell private user information to the
               | US gov't.
               | 
               | Here's their current list of offices:
               | 
               | https://yandex.com/jobs/locations/
               | 
               | So, maybe? (Better than "definitely", though...)
        
             | mypetocean wrote:
             | Yeah, I use DDG by default now, and only use Google for
             | hard searches - and even then, I'm continually surprised by
             | the frequency of terrible search results on Google these
             | days.
        
             | dcow wrote:
             | Kagi has replaced DDG for me entirely. Now that you get
             | unlimited searches, do you think it would for you, too?
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | Google's been losing in blind comparisons for over a decade
             | (experiments:
             | 
             | - Both have google branding -> competitor wins
             | 
             | - Neither has google branding -> competitor wins
             | 
             | - One (chosen randomly) has google branding -> google
             | branding wins
             | 
             | Yahoo search consistently beat them for a few years before
             | Microsoft bought it and turned it into Bing. It doesn't
             | surprise me at all that Yandex is also producing better
             | results.
        
           | konfusinomicon wrote:
           | hotbot! now there's a name I haven't heard in a while! that
           | was the first search engine I used regularly. it was the
           | perfect place to find warcraft 2 cheats and magic the
           | gathering deck ideas
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | you could always Ask Jeeves if you were looking for things
             | too.
        
               | Paul-Craft wrote:
               | I used to prefer Dogpile:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogpile
        
             | rkagerer wrote:
             | It actually felt like one of the better pre-Google engines.
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | In my experience it's not that there's better quality results
           | found, but rather low quality results are skipped. There's a
           | lot filtered by default + it's easy to click "block this
           | domain" when you run into yet another stackoverflow copy. It
           | means that when you're searching for code related things, you
           | often get small relevant blogs in position 3+ rather than SEO
           | spam.
           | 
           | For example searching for "current time on JavaScript" on
           | Google, I get SO, MDN, and basically a lot of SEO spam sites.
           | Same thing on Kagi https://kagi.com/search?q=current+time+in+
           | JavaScript&r=au&sh... ends with an actually interesting blog
           | on position 5, link to moment.js on GH, further down posts
           | about accuracy and about the Temporal API proposal, etc.
        
             | JoshuaEN wrote:
             | This is my experience as well. Low quality junk is often
             | not present, and if it does show up, it's two mouse clicks
             | to never see that domain again.
             | 
             | Also the ability to promote high quality domains helps even
             | more with this (though i have found one needs to be careful
             | with pinning domains, as it can lead to irrelevant results
             | being shown first because they have some if the same
             | keywords).
        
           | louthy wrote:
           | When I first signed up for Kagi, I found myself just
           | searching for fun. I hadn't had that feeling in forever (well
           | apart from when Google was first launched)
           | 
           | Very happy customer here.
        
         | w1nst0nsm1th wrote:
         | How does it compare to Brave ?
        
       | sph wrote:
       | I'm already a paying customer but all I can say is wow. It is
       | rare to see companies offer more for less price, especially in
       | this economy.
       | 
       | Good job Kagi, seriously!
        
       | slipperlobster wrote:
       | Instant upgrade from the $5/mo plan to this. My biggest complaint
       | about Kagi was that (artificial) ceiling looming over my head at
       | 500 searches per month. Now, I can finally switch my work
       | computer over to using Kagi and have zero worry.
       | 
       | Nothing to complain about here, just overall very pleased.
        
       | clnq wrote:
       | Is there killer feature that Kagi has or is it just a marginal
       | improvement over Google? I've tried a few of my last technical
       | Google searches and got practically identical results. So I'm
       | wondering if there's more. Is there $120/yr worth of _more_ here?
       | 
       | Also, if anyone finds it substantially better, could you give
       | some example queries on which it does better?
        
       | dot5xdev wrote:
       | I'm currently paying for Kagi. It's nice. But, so far I feel like
       | it may only be like 2% better than Google, probably not enough to
       | keep me long term.
       | 
       | A lot of times the results are better on Kagi than Google, but
       | not by much. It makes sense they're similar since Kagi uses
       | Google's index (among others).
        
         | sph wrote:
         | > 2% better
         | 
         | Not in my experience, and what about user tracking and
         | pervasive advertising? You don't seem to include that in your
         | comparison.
        
           | dot5xdev wrote:
           | Yeah, I'm strictly talking about search results. That's the
           | main thing I care about. No ads is nice, but if I can't find
           | information I need then that's not very useful to me.
        
           | hovering_nox wrote:
           | >user tracking
           | 
           | You can use Google anonymously but you have to log in and
           | leave your payment data with Kagi.
           | 
           | EDIT: apparently they accept crypto
        
             | sph wrote:
             | Not very anonymous when 99% of websites on the internet use
             | Google Analytics, so it's pretty easy to follow you around
             | the web.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | True, but a bit of a moot point if both search engines
               | will indiscriminately route you to those websites
               | anyways. It's not like I'm opting-out of that issue by
               | using DuckDuckGo right now.
        
               | xigoi wrote:
               | Isn't Google Analytics blocked by pretty much any ad
               | blocker?
        
         | dpkirchner wrote:
         | Being able to block domains (without an extension) makes Kagi
         | at least 30% better on its own. Maybe more. It's absolutely a
         | killer feature and one that Google themselves used to have.
        
       | CyberDildonics wrote:
       | This is an advertisement.
        
         | rizky05 wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | ezfe wrote:
         | Sir, this is Hacker News
        
       | goda90 wrote:
       | I don't see myself paying $10/month for search but I could see
       | myself paying even more for a bundle of services that included
       | search. Maybe a bunch of these companies that treat you like a
       | customer instead of a product for advertisers can partner up and
       | do a single login and subscription plan together.
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | Love Kagi. First search engine I've been willing to ditch google
       | for.
        
       | gchamonlive wrote:
       | It is the first time I hear a out kagi. What for me, as a
       | developer, would be the selling point for using kagi instead of
       | say phind.com?
        
         | rbmo wrote:
         | The very first thing that comes to mind is their domain filter
         | https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | It's not focused on coding; it's general purpose.
        
       | hardcopy wrote:
       | I just signed up for ultimate two days ago. Oh well, I suppose
       | the extra $15 is going to a good cause.
       | 
       | edit: You can switch pro-rated, nice.
        
         | SushiHippie wrote:
         | Ultimate will be worth it in the next couple of weeks, cool
         | features are coming ;) i'm in the beta and it's really great
         | bank for buck
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Done. The price was my only problem.
        
       | m00dy wrote:
       | anyone paying for kagi here ? how's it comparing to duckduckgo
       | results ?
        
         | unshavedyak wrote:
         | Previously i used DDG and fell back to Startpage/Google
         | constantly. With Kagi, i can't remember the last time i did
         | that. I also get a lot of value out of FastGPT (a labs search
         | thing from Kagi).
         | 
         | Overall, i'm very happy with my starter subscription.
        
         | CoryAlexMartin wrote:
         | Echoing what others have said. When I used DuckDuckGo, I would
         | have to resort to using Google all the time because Google's
         | results were often better. Since switching to Kagi, I never
         | feel the need to use Google anymore.
        
         | CobaltFire wrote:
         | It sounds hyperbolic, but using Kagi reminds me of back in 98
         | or 99 when I first discovered Google. I can get results I want
         | every single time without wading through garbage.
         | 
         | I'm happy to pay for it.
        
         | seventytwo wrote:
         | Been paying for Kagi for about a year now. It's great and worth
         | it. As good as google for search, but with much better tools
         | and basically zero ad spam.
        
         | r2_pilot wrote:
         | I've heard about it, signed up the other day, didn't use it. I
         | tried it today on a medical condition that's been hard to get
         | good info on, and while it wasn't the first hit, there was a
         | great reference fairly high up that I didn't find on Google.
         | I'm working on budgeting for yet another subscription as I
         | figure kagi will be my next go-to if AI doesn't outstrip it
         | first. And probably even then(sometimes you have to use the
         | Dead Internet).
        
         | sph wrote:
         | In my experience.
         | 
         | DDG 6/10
         | 
         | Brave Search 7/10
         | 
         | Google 8/10
         | 
         | Kagi 9/10
         | 
         | Basically all I want is a search engine that does what I tell
         | it to do, and doesn't try to be smarter than me, because it is
         | not. My killer Kagi feature is the forum search. The only way
         | to get real human opinions on things, rather than regurgitated
         | blogspam that's pervasive on Google and even more on DDG and
         | other smaller engines.
        
         | neoromantique wrote:
         | Been a paying customer for a year now, it's very much worth it.
        
         | neysofu wrote:
         | I've been a paying customer for more than a year, in my
         | experience DDG is not even in the same league as Kagi. DDG
         | provides a noticeably worse search experience than Google for
         | most queries, whereas Kagi is either just as good or often
         | better than Google.
        
         | wellthisisgreat wrote:
         | i really wanted to ditch google and gave my best shot to DDG
         | and just couldn't use it, had to go to !g all the time. been
         | paying for Kagi close to a year and I only do !g when I am
         | proactively seeking to look at SEO spam
        
         | DanHulton wrote:
         | Been paying for a long while now, I expect I'll keep paying a
         | lot longer. It's very, very good.
         | 
         | Occasionally, I'm on someone else's computer where I'm not
         | signed in to Kagi, and I try DDG first, but I frequently resort
         | to pulling out my phone and just searching there.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | baliex wrote:
       | Would love some stats in the near future of whether Google et al.
       | are using these lists (blocked, lowered, raised, pinned) to their
       | advantage somehow. Having said that, they have the data
       | themselves, they just choose not to use it because it's not in
       | their best interests..
       | https://kagi.com/stats?stat=leaderboard&k=1
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | boringg wrote:
       | I think Kagi sounds interesting but the business model is a tough
       | one outside of niche HN types. E.g. I am interested but can't be
       | bothered to pursue it as it seems like an unnecessary additional
       | SAS model cost to my monthly budget.
       | 
       | How does search quality really change my life?
       | 
       | Entrenched behavior is tough to overcome especially ostensibly
       | free products.
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | > _How does search quality really change my life?_
         | 
         | A lot. I make dozens and dozens of searches on an average day.
         | 
         | I'm also somewhat cheap when it comes to subscriptions.
         | 
         | Throwing $10/mo. for something I can get "for free" is not a
         | light choice. But...                 1) I don't like Google's
         | philosophy, I don't like being the product, I like being a
         | customer       2) Google Search results have gradually gotten
         | worse, mostly because of SEO spam       3) I don't really trust
         | DuckDuckGo or Startpage, their model is essentially also
         | advertising
         | 
         | I still use Google Search / Maps when I want to buy something,
         | i.e., when I want ads.
         | 
         | I prefer to not go to the mall for recreation or work either.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | How much time do you waste wading through bad search results?
         | 
         | Would you pay $10/mo to fix that problem?
         | 
         | For me, the answer has been yes. I don't think that is true of
         | everyone (but maybe some people can live in the free plan
         | limits!)
         | 
         | I started with the free plan, made it my default search engine
         | and then tried to measure how often I felt like I had "lost
         | something" once my free tier was up. And yeah, having to go
         | back to Google or DuckDuckGo felt like I lost a really good
         | tool and was using a mediocre replacement.
        
           | sshine wrote:
           | > maybe some people can live in the free plan limits
           | 
           | When the free plan was 50 searches, that lasted me less than
           | a day.
           | 
           | Now that the free plan is 300 searches, it'd last me a few
           | days.
           | 
           | It was enough for me to get hooked.
        
         | jwmcq wrote:
         | > How does search quality really change my life?
         | 
         | Ask this to someone who remembers when Google first appeared.
         | 
         | I am not a Kagi user, but am seriously considering it after a
         | number of months having to dig through at least 8 results of
         | paywalled or possibly AI-generated pages for almost every
         | Google query; seriously, I just did a search for 'python
         | concatenate list' on google and it was worse than I expected -
         | the official docs weren't even on the first two pages and even
         | the helpful Stack Overflow answers were the 5th result down -
         | give it a go, the results are trash.
         | 
         | I google things at least 20 times a day, and probably so do
         | you. I would pay for something that can cut out the bollocks -
         | if Kagi can follow through, they'll have a customer.
        
           | rajamaka wrote:
           | I just ditched search altogether for questions like that and
           | use ChatGPT. Has improved my workflow so much.
        
           | constantly wrote:
           | Yep, I think I'm going to try Kagi. I am so, so tired and
           | exhausted of every search result on Google being "the top X
           | in ${this_month_of_this_year}" with a list of Amazon
           | affiliate links. I append Reddit to the searches for products
           | now, but notice on higher margin items you can click into
           | Reddit user history of people giving their "opinion" and see
           | that every post they make is about that particular product.
        
         | prepend wrote:
         | I'm waiting to pay $10/month for search+email. That I will do
         | as I also keep meaning to switch off gmail to a pay service.
        
           | iruoy wrote:
           | You can get unlimited email domains/accounts for $19/year.
           | Assuming you don't receive more than 200 emails a day.
           | 
           | https://migadu.com/pricing/
        
           | sshine wrote:
           | I pay $5/mo. for 30GB at FastMail, and $10/mo. for Kagi
           | Search.
           | 
           | I switched away from Gmail years ago; the risk of getting
           | locked out of my digital identity with no recourse is worth
           | more than $5/mo. Not having my electronics receipts, plane
           | tickets and newsletters datamined for an improved ad
           | experience is just a perk.
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | > How does search quality really change my life?
         | 
         | There are tons of information workers who are dependent on
         | search in their work - or if they're not, could work much
         | better with good quality search.
         | 
         | The examples are really too many to list, but it really depends
         | on the person. When it comes to not spending a dollar, people
         | will create the most incredible and reality-defying reasons. So
         | I'd expect 99% of Google users to keep using Google, or maybe
         | even stop using web search when Google becomes completely
         | unusable. Then they'll say "I have no need to search for things
         | anyway".
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _the business model is a tough one outside of niche HN types_
         | 
         | There are lucrative bundling opportunities.
         | 
         | I am waiting fora corporate product; it's notable that Google
         | Workspace still subjects you to ads in search. That's not only
         | a data leak. It's also a constant attention tax on your
         | knowledge workers.
        
           | freediver wrote:
           | Vlad here from Kagi. We are building one, would you like to
           | chat? Would love to understand your needs. Please reach out
           | to vlad@kagi.com
        
             | bradgessler wrote:
             | Hi Vlad,
             | 
             | You might want the blog to prominently link back to
             | https://kagi.com. "Home" took me to https://blog.kagi.com,
             | I tried clicking on the pricing table image, etc. but
             | nothing got me to the actual product.
             | 
             | I had to manually enter https://kagi.com to see the product
             | behind the blog.
        
         | dcow wrote:
         | Search quality improves my life. Like actually I'm a happier
         | searcher since Kagi and I search more frequently because I have
         | increased confidence that I'll get meaningful results. I don't
         | grumble like I used to every time I had to wade through a pool
         | of SEO shit spam. But that's just me.
        
         | andrewaylett wrote:
         | Search needs to be paid for one way or another, the bill might
         | as well go to someone with my best interests in mind.
        
       | hellowoods wrote:
       | Presearch is decentralized, private, free, and pays you to run a
       | node.
       | 
       | https://presearch.com
        
       | nipperkinfeet wrote:
       | Is it truly worth it? Nothing appears when I search for adult
       | content. The safe search function has been disabled.
        
         | kup0 wrote:
         | Adult searches work for me, I disabled safe search on
         | https://kagi.com/settings?p=privacy
         | 
         | and it seems to be working fine?
        
       | prepend wrote:
       | I wish there was a way to just buy 10,000 searches as a block and
       | charge down against it.
       | 
       | I don't search that much. I don't want another monthly service
       | fee. But I love the idea of paying for search.
       | 
       | Id happily pay $5 for 300 searches, but don't want to do that
       | every month.
       | 
       | This seems like the buffet or gym model where they want people
       | just mindlessly paying and then not using it that much.
        
         | dbrueck wrote:
         | I hear you, but it's also really hard from the service
         | provider's perspective because - for many people at least - the
         | allotment of searches starts to become a hinderance on using
         | it.
         | 
         | By making it feel a finite resource, some percentage of the
         | users will start to ration their use of your service and/or do
         | some deliberation before using it ("I kinda want to look that
         | up, but I don't know if I want to spend one of my searches"),
         | and introducing that kind of usage friction can even lead to a
         | subtle resentment of your service.
        
           | arp242 wrote:
           | Yeah, exactly. I looked at Kagi last week (first time I had
           | heard of it), when the $10/month plan was "only" 1,000
           | searches a month and "unlimited" was $25. While I _think_
           | that I 'll probably stay well within 1,000 searches, I'm also
           | not sure, and it's just not something I want to have to worry
           | about (it's ~33/day on average and I doubt I'll ever hit it,
           | but still...)
           | 
           | One of the reasons I decided to skip Kagi for now.
        
         | somsak2 wrote:
         | There's a reason most non-ad-supported, profitable SaaS
         | businesses have switched to a subscription.
        
         | TehShrike wrote:
         | You might want to look at rigging something up with their API.
         | To use their API, you pre-pay for credits - 25$ for 1000
         | searches via the API.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | >This seems like the buffet or gym model where they want people
         | just mindlessly paying and then not using it that much.
         | 
         | I see this as the point to any subscription model. Of course
         | they want you paying for more than you use/consume.
        
           | chiefalchemist wrote:
           | Fair enough. Sell in bulk but have some minimum credits per
           | month requirement. More or less, use'em or lose'em. Not super
           | painful, they are paying customers :) But enough to keep it
           | fair to the vendor. This way there's a path to paying for
           | those who don't want or need a monthly unlimited
           | subscription.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I really liked the suggestion from somewhere else on this
             | topic of paying a set fee for an amount of credits to be
             | charged against. When the balance gets low, allow them to
             | re-up. Of course, there shouldn't be some BS type of
             | expiration date like food products or airline miles. Pay as
             | you type of plans. In that way, you are paying for exactly
             | what you use, and not just donating each month like it's a
             | charity.
        
           | LapsangGuzzler wrote:
           | True, but there's also the reality that maintenance costs
           | increase over time for software projects as upstream vendors
           | change their pricing models and codebases grow in size and
           | complexity. I can see why a product like Kagi wants to keep
           | their traffic tied to recurring revenue instead of selling a
           | bunch of credits upfront.
        
           | moonchrome wrote:
           | I think the point is having stable recurring revenue. Giving
           | you unlimited usage means on average you'll be paying more
           | than you use, but, unless you're seriously abusing it, you
           | can technically cost them more than you pay.
           | 
           | Just like you can go to the gym every day - if everyone with
           | the membership did that they would not be able to function.
           | But it doesn't mean _you_ can 't.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | Right and this is the reason I don't like subscriptions.
           | 
           | Id rather buy things.
           | 
           | I don't want a car subscription. I want to buy a car.
           | 
           | I don't want a book subscription. I want to buy a car.
           | 
           | I don't a compute subscription. I want to buy compute hours.
           | 
           | Etc etc
        
             | rkagerer wrote:
             | >>I want to buy compute hours.
             | 
             | Or a computER.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Back when Netflix/Prime were the king of paid premium (ad
             | free) streaming essentially being the only players, there
             | were definite months where I barely watched any content and
             | I was a pure source of subsidy for all the other viewers.
             | There are other times, where I swear they (Netflix) start
             | throttling my use to sub-VHS quality. Macroblocking the
             | size of your fist that looks like a 320x240 image scaled to
             | the size of my TV.
        
             | chiefalchemist wrote:
             | Cars are the one thing I don't want to buy. It's not an
             | asset. It depreciates.
             | 
             | I'd like to pay a reasonable monthly subscription with a
             | small fee per mile once I go over some minimum for my tier.
             | 
             | Once autonomous vehicles are stable, I'm presuming I'll be
             | able to hail a car in 5 or 10 mins via app. I guess the
             | only question is what to do in full-on emergencies. For
             | example, when the zombie apocalypse begins, or the aliens
             | final attack. How do I get out of town?
        
               | rfrey wrote:
               | Isn't that a lease?
        
               | adrianmonk wrote:
               | Similar use case that actually happens: hurricanes.
               | Entire large cities evacuate. The Miami and Houston metro
               | areas are both over 5 million in population.
               | 
               | Forecasts give days of notice, so I guess an autonomous
               | vehicle ride-hailing service could have a million extra
               | cars drives themselves in overnight. But refueling them
               | would be a challenge. It's already a challenge for normal
               | cars today (without using more fuel by rearranging fleets
               | of cars between cities).
               | 
               | Also, sometimes they change traffic flow for evacuations,
               | like contraflow lane reversal
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraflow_lane_reversal)
               | or using the shoulders as extra lanes. I wonder how well
               | autonomous vehicle software handles that.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | I've been a Kagi customer since the beta, I'm still happy to pay
       | for the privacy and for certain UX improvements they have, for
       | instance being able to give higher or lower weight to different
       | websites in search results. I do _not_ think the quality of their
       | search is any better than DDG or Google. If I am being honest, it
       | 's actually worse for a lot of things, if you don't factor in
       | that you can block bad websites without a plugin.
       | 
       | Even paying for Kagi, I _still_ go back to Google for any really
       | open-ended searches where the search engine 's ML can actually be
       | helpful. For known-item searches ("fandango showtimes Seattle"),
       | or simple searches ("pumpkin bread recipe") which are fully 90%+
       | of what I search for, Kagi is just fine, and they aren't after my
       | identity (just my money).
        
       | runeofdoom wrote:
       | This is going to get me to try Kagi.
       | 
       | I've thought about it several times, enough that I did track my
       | searches for a week. Between work, hobbies, and just life I
       | searched (overwhelmingly DDG and Bing) over a thousand times in a
       | week. (A evening of prep for my tabletop RPG racked up over a
       | hundred all by itself.)
       | 
       | I've bailed on Google - wading though the flood of SEO'd garbage
       | just stopped being worth it. Bing and DDG have been mostly
       | working, but I definitely feel like they're missing something.
       | $10 a month is definitely worth it to try it out, and if it works
       | for me, worth it to keep paying. I'd been hesitating because
       | worrying about my search count seemed like a substantial negative
       | for me.
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | > over a thousand times in a week
         | 
         | That's a lot!
         | 
         | I perform 500-900 searches a month.
         | 
         | I really enjoy Kagi's caching image search; it often lets me
         | avoid visiting websites when I'm just looking for graphics.
         | Going on Kagi and reading summaries and viewing cached material
         | gives me the "I don't feel like going out" vibe, but on the
         | Internet. One step closer to offline.
        
         | freeAgent wrote:
         | Be sure to look into the results customization options. You may
         | not need them, but they can also make the engine feel so much
         | more tuned to your needs.
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | I like the "Blast from the Past" unit in search results. Real
       | sick of Google's neurotic obsession with recency as a stand-in
       | for relevance to the point that you can tell a lot of spammy
       | sites just fake ${CURRENT_YEAR}.
        
       | wkat4242 wrote:
       | Hmm most of the things I used search for are now covered by
       | ChatGPT (for which I use the api which costs cents).
       | 
       | I don't think web search is still important enough for me to pay
       | for. A year ago it would have been. I originally signed up with
       | kagi but I wasn't too impressed and then they came with the
       | limited plans and that was it. Not sure if I'll go back now.
       | 
       | And yeah like the article says it was priced for "silicon valley
       | bros". Even $10 is a lot on a Spanish salary still. But it's
       | doable and 300 for $5 is a decent deal IMO. I wouldn't do that
       | many.
        
         | gardenhedge wrote:
         | so is that better than using the chatgpt subscription?
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Much better imo and much cheaper unless you do 200 chats per
           | day or something :P
           | 
           | Why is it better? More integration capabilities. You're not
           | limited to the webpage and app, you can use it anywhere you
           | want. Not constantly kicking me out to log in again every few
           | days (their web does this). The ability to select the model
           | and temperature (a measure of how creative the LLM is). Also
           | the default model seems to be much more recent.
           | 
           | And the price. If you use it sparingly you might be paying as
           | little as 20 cents a month instead of 20 dollars. Not
           | exaggerating but it depends on the size of questions and
           | responses. But really to make it cost as much as that 20$ per
           | month with the API you really have to go hell for leather
           | with it.
        
             | frabcus wrote:
             | I also really like that I'm learning tooling that lets me
             | easily switch model provider later.
        
         | ghostpepper wrote:
         | what do you use to hit the api? is there a good CLI tool for
         | linux?
        
           | _nhynes wrote:
           | I use the OpenAI playground because I'm paranoid that third
           | party frontends will steal my API keys and I don't have
           | enough time to audit the code or set up firewall rules.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | You can set up a spending limit on the API anyway. It's
             | pretty low risk IMO.
        
           | Zetobal wrote:
           | Not the op but I use chatblade[0] on the cli, chatgpt-next-
           | web[1] as webgui and quivr[2] for multimodal stuff
           | files/images/audio/video. atm everything goes over a azure
           | openai endpoint but would love to infere an llm locally.
           | 
           | [0] https://github.com/npiv/chatblade
           | 
           | [1] https://github.com/Yidadaa/ChatGPT-Next-Web/
           | 
           | [2] https://github.com/StanGirard/quivr
        
           | nani8ot wrote:
           | chatgpt-cli is a great tui
        
           | frabcus wrote:
           | Simon Willison's `llm` is an excellent command line client,
           | and now has `llm chat` as well as `-c` for ongoing
           | conversations.
           | 
           | https://llm.datasette.io/en/stable/
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | I use the ChatGPT bot for matrix mainly. I've tried some
           | other frontends that are more like ChatGPT web but I keep
           | going back to matrix because it's just so handy. I have all
           | my other chats in there too, through bridges.
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | Much like youtube, I'm fine paying $10/yr, but $10/mo is pretty
       | steep.
        
       | RantyDave wrote:
       | Aside, possibly, but didn't Kagi used to be a company that
       | collected money for shareware authors or am I hallucinating?
        
         | jorams wrote:
         | Yes. Quoting Wikipedia[1]:
         | 
         | > Kagi.com was an e-commerce micropayment platform often used
         | for shareware and e-book purchases, operating from Sept 1994 to
         | July 2016.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagi
        
       | kup0 wrote:
       | Excited to see this. Thinking about using this on mobile and all
       | PCs I use now that there is no worry about hitting a quota.
        
       | HNArg024 wrote:
       | I almost never comment here on HN (or anywhere actually), but I
       | feel the need to express how happy I am that I found (lost in a
       | comment a few days ago) this service.
       | 
       | For the past three or so years I have tried half a dozen times to
       | leave Google Search. Tried DDG, Brave Search and some others I
       | can't remember now. But the "poor" quality of results had me
       | going to Google for half of my searches, and after a while, just
       | Google again, for convenience.
       | 
       | Now, I'm at 44/100 trial searches and I already know I'm going to
       | pay for this. It's like using Google on 2008 plus without ads. It
       | just work wonders, and I haven't even started to play with the
       | filter to raise/lower certain domains, which I think it's a
       | fantastic tool to have.
       | 
       | Great work Kagi Team!
        
       | t0bia_s wrote:
       | I don't like the idea of tightening search queries to credit
       | card, however they add option to pay by crypto... That is good
       | approach. But still I refuse to pay subscription model for
       | product that I wouldn't use regularly.
        
       | richardw wrote:
       | Keen to try it. I would worry that over time, poor people
       | wouldn't get access as they do with ad-supported services. Maybe
       | search credit donations could be pooled somehow, so I could do $5
       | for me, $2.50 for students/emerging economies.
        
       | xlii wrote:
       | I dropped of Kagi after price change, mostly because I don't
       | think search hit should be something I need to keep in mind when
       | using search engine.
       | 
       | This is a change in good direction, and I'll happily check it
       | once again.
        
       | zamadatix wrote:
       | How many is unlimited? Presumably they don't get unlimited
       | searches for $10 and, inevitably, someone will use more than they
       | planned for. How much more than they expected is considered "fair
       | use" or however they want to term it and why can't I know that
       | before I sign up instead of guess I'm within what they are
       | thinking?
        
         | zakary wrote:
         | Whatever the cap is, I'm sure it's a lot higher than google
         | will let you do before they start rate limiting you or making
         | you do a captcha for every search. Pretty much all search
         | services have some cap, after which they will put up roadblocks
         | to slow you down
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | I've been getting captchaed by Google just for using
           | `intitle:` or `inurl:` modifiers.
        
           | gretch wrote:
           | > I'm sure it's a lot higher than google will let you do
           | before they start rate limiting you
           | 
           | Do you have any basis for this assumption?
        
             | gkbrk wrote:
             | Google throws me around 4-5 CAPTCHAs a month with regular
             | usage. So far, Kagi hasn't made me do any "find the
             | firehoses".
        
         | gnud wrote:
         | I'm assuming they disallow bot use in their TOS. So they can
         | probably offer unlimited searches that you run yourself by
         | typing in the terms.
        
         | crisp wrote:
         | While I think your questions are definitely relevant, in
         | practice, you search less than you think.
         | 
         | I consider myself as a heavy search engine user but, based on
         | Kagi stats, I was surprised how much less I actually searched
         | compared to my estimate. My actual range is about 500-800
         | queries a month when I originally estimated upwards 1500
         | queries a month.
         | 
         | Same thing with my friends.
        
       | dcminter wrote:
       | You can block domains you don't want to see results from. With
       | that feature I'm not sure it even needs to deliver better results
       | than Google to be compelling.
        
       | wackget wrote:
       | Call me tight-fisted or naive or whatever but I don't see
       | $10/month as a remotely attractive price point and I don't see
       | how they can justify it, especially when their results are still
       | powered at least in part by external indexers.
       | 
       | $10/month can get you terabytes of media on streaming platforms.
       | 
       | $1-2/month is what I would pay.
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | It's a very fair price. If anything we have to hope it's enough
         | that they can survive.
        
         | europeanNyan wrote:
         | At the end of the day, it comes down to what your time is worth
         | to you. I do about 1500 searches per month and paying 10EUR per
         | month for those searches to actually be relevant makes it a no
         | brainer.
        
         | MrVandemar wrote:
         | You're not paying for terabytes of media. You are paying for
         | time and a reduced cognitive load.
         | 
         | I think it's a fair price if you live in the US. I'd pay it,
         | except I don't live in the US and our currency isn't great at
         | the moment, and I don't exactly get overpaid at my job, and the
         | cost of everything is rising, so I personally can't afford it
         | ATM. But it seems reasonable to me.
        
         | carlosjobim wrote:
         | Assuming you've already paid $10 for your terabytes of
         | streaming and that wasn't the last dollar you owned, how does
         | paying for a completely different thing relate to your media
         | streaming?
         | 
         | I can buy potatoes that last me for a week for the same price
         | as for what I'd pay to just get a coffee, but if I've already
         | bought my potatoes and have money to spare, why couldn't I buy
         | also the coffee?
        
       | apricot wrote:
       | I mostly use Duckduckgo these days but fall back on Google for
       | non-English searches because DDG is lacking in that area.
       | 
       | Kagi users, how good is Kagi for non-English searches?
        
         | warpspin wrote:
         | Can only speak for German searches, but the results are good
         | there.
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | For Danish searches, simple queries get confused with
         | Norwegian/Swedish results.
         | 
         | Admittedly, I haven't said anywhere that I prefer Danish
         | results when the query is the same in two languages. My
         | operating system and browser are not configured to reveal my
         | nationality. The only way Kagi would know is if they factored
         | in my IP address. Which I can deduce that they don't. I prefer
         | it that way.
        
         | uasi wrote:
         | For me, Japanese search quality is on par with Google most of
         | the time.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | This is great news. I've been paying for a couple months now and
       | I've been happy with the results and the previous limits weren't
       | something I even needed to worry about in the end (I did worry at
       | the start but only because I had no idea how many searches I do
       | to gauge which plan I needed).
        
       | lordfrito wrote:
       | This is great I just signed up! Been wanting to bail on free
       | search for a while now, hoping paid search will prioritize users
       | needs above all else. Crossing fingers they can go the distance,
       | scale, and stick around a while.
        
       | pjmq wrote:
       | I've been a paying subscriber to Kagi for over a year and I'm sad
       | to say it just gets in my way and I often find myself just
       | wishing I was using Google.
       | 
       | I've kept it thus far because I believe in the mission but man...
       | I get why other promising search engines have fallen to Google.
        
         | hosteur wrote:
         | > I'm sad to say it just gets in my way
         | 
         | Care to elaborate on how it gets in your way? And what, in your
         | opinion, Google does better? I use Kagi myself and I am very
         | happy with it.
        
       | BoppreH wrote:
       | Three years ago, I migrated from Gmail to FastMail because I was
       | afraid of losing access to my digital life on Google's whim.
       | 
       | Two years ago, I found out that my favorite Youtube creators were
       | all on Nebula.
       | 
       | One year ago, I switched my phone to LineageOS to get security
       | updates a little longer.
       | 
       | A month ago, I installed OpenStreetMaps because Google Maps got
       | really bad at showing points-of-interest.
       | 
       | And today, Kagi removed the only obstacle that kept me on Google
       | Search. I'm looking forward to building my filter list.
       | 
       | After accidentally de-googlifying myself, I might ditch Windows
       | next. It feels really nice using products that respect me, as
       | opposed to services that are actively hostile because of
       | advertisers.
        
         | rjh29 wrote:
         | Yeah you sound like someone who should not be using Windows in
         | any way shape or form. The telemetry and lack of control? Try
         | Linux out.
        
           | BoppreH wrote:
           | I'm wary of telemetry, but willing to accept it. It's the
           | lack of _respect_ that gets to me.  "Yes/Maybe Later"?
           | Showing me a fake Windows update screen once a month to try
           | to get me to use an online account and switch to Edge?
           | Starting a Bing search when the start menu doesn't recognize
           | an application's name? Pre-installing games with
           | advertisement and microtransactions?
           | 
           | It's a commercial operating system, for Christ's sake, stop
           | pushing sleazy features. They are quickly burning through all
           | the trust acquired over decades.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | Yeah, Windows 8 was kind of ineffably bad. I know exactly
             | effing why Windows 10 is bad; nothing ineffable about it.
        
             | vanchor3 wrote:
             | My favorite was when they wanted everyone to switch over
             | from Internet Explorer to Edge (this was before support was
             | dropped), so attempting to search "Internet Explorer" in
             | the start menu caused it to override it with Edge instead.
             | 
             | This of course was quite annoying because we still had many
             | applications at the time that (unfortunately) required
             | Internet Explorer. It was even more annoying because when
             | attempting to get to "Internet Options" or "File Explorer",
             | it automatically replaced those with Edge, which is not at
             | all helpful.
             | 
             | This effort was also completely undone by the fact that if
             | you misspelled Internet Explorer it would still come right
             | up as the first option.
             | 
             | I'm still upset that they've removed most Control Panel
             | results from the start menu search as well, because after
             | all these years the Settings app is still incomplete.
        
           | VHRanger wrote:
           | The only lockin I have remaining to windows is video games
           | really
        
             | underdeserver wrote:
             | Check out Proton.
        
       | justinclift wrote:
       | Anyone know if the "Universal Summarizer" is reliable, or does it
       | make stuff up?
        
       | pdx6 wrote:
       | I think $5-$10 is a good price point for just the privacy aspect.
       | As far as search, it's about 90% kagi and 10% Google if I don't
       | like the kagi results. Maps could use some work and I'm always
       | jumping back into Google maps.
       | 
       | I don't use any of the other features.
        
       | distract8901 wrote:
       | I'm kind of shocked to see a company in this day and age making
       | their service more affordable as it becomes more popular.
       | 
       | I'm very happy with this service. Worth every cent and then some.
        
       | avereveard wrote:
       | I would really love to see an API, possibly with a pay per
       | request pricing.
        
         | baggachipz wrote:
         | They do have exactly such a thing:
         | https://help.kagi.com/kagi/api/overview.html
        
           | bugglebeetle wrote:
           | Any of the DDG search libraries on GiHub + ChatGPT-turbo-3.5
           | is cheaper than this, especially if you need to do a lot of
           | searches and then apply a heuristic to narrow them down.
           | Doesn't seem very competitive.
        
           | avereveard wrote:
           | Ah wonderful! Looks fairly inexpensive as well, and they have
           | a summarisation option that seems great, I'll need to play a
           | bit with it.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | p3rls wrote:
       | A good deal worse than google for results in my niche (Korean
       | entertainment). Oh well.
        
       | arealaccount wrote:
       | This is great, I did the trial and the reason I chose to not
       | continue is I hated having to think "is this search worth it" for
       | everything.
        
       | james2doyle wrote:
       | I like the statement they made on their jobs page:
       | 
       | Core Front-end Team
       | 
       | Passion for creating delightful and swift user interfaces.
       | 
       | Proficiency in HTML, CSS, and _an understanding that JavaScript
       | can be used sparingly to enhance, not create, product
       | experiences._
       | 
       | Ability to prototype rapidly.
       | 
       | Fun fact: At Kagi, we prioritize speed, to the point where *all
       | functionalities of Kagi Search (except Stripe checkout and Maps)
       | work perfectly without JavaScript*. We see JavaScript as a tool
       | to enhance the UX, not create it.
        
         | threatofrain wrote:
         | Ah, their backend is in Crystal!
        
         | zelphirkalt wrote:
         | That frontend team statement alone makes it almost worth
         | switching and thereby supporting their work. It is rare these
         | days to hear such wise words.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | I like the sound of it, but I do notice that the link
         | https://kagi.com/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&sh=Qd1RlT2...
         | which someone posted elsewhere in this discussion as an example
         | doesn't work with JS disabled.
        
           | jorams wrote:
           | It should work without JS. It even works in eww (in Emacs).
           | Looking at the source of the page, there's a redirect (meta
           | http-equiv="refresh") wrapped in a <noscript>-tag to the same
           | URL but with "/html" before the path.[1]. It seems the
           | browser you tried doesn't handle that.
           | 
           | [1]: https://kagi.com/html/search?q=what+is+%25&r=no_region&s
           | h=Qd...
        
         | tills13 wrote:
         | In my opinion, in not using JavaScript they are missing out on
         | a really nice DX. This is the kind of app that could be highly
         | optimized _despite_ using React or something similar. Knee-
         | capping your hiring to Make A Point (tm) is silly.
        
           | james2doyle wrote:
           | Nice DX at the cost of UX.
           | 
           | The current state of web development has been ruined by
           | putting developer experience over user experience. A great
           | example that was shared on HN a few days ago:
           | https://ericwbailey.website/published/modern-health-
           | framewor...
           | 
           | This person couldn't use the site. But at least the developer
           | got to see red squiggles when they didn't format their object
           | properly!
           | 
           | If you see "not using JS as much" as knee-capping your
           | hiring, then you are putting your personal preferences ahead
           | of what is good for the users.
        
       | rkagerer wrote:
       | Can someone offer some history on Kagi? It's founder / roots? I'm
       | curious.
       | 
       | Also what specific features are in the mysterious Ultimate plan?
       | 
       | And what was the domain before it was a search engine?
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12200972
       | 
       | Thanks!
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | > what specific features are in the mysterious Ultimate plan?
         | 
         | Ultimate used to be unlimited searches.
         | 
         | Now that the Professional plan is unlimited, this seems like a
         | quick attempt to provide some value to those with Ultimate. My
         | bet is that many will move to Professional, those who stay will
         | mainly do it for the support, and the mystery is just a cherry
         | on top. I'm guessing extended API and AI features are among the
         | coming features.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | lmm wrote:
       | What's the language support like? I can find what I need in
       | English, but I really struggle to find good search results in
       | Japanese - but if that isn't something they've been paying
       | attention to then they're unlikely to be good at it.
        
       | xigoi wrote:
       | Is there any tool you can run on your browser history to
       | determine whether 300 searches/month would be enough for you?
        
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