[HN Gopher] AdaCore Announces Gnat Pro for Rust ___________________________________________________________________ AdaCore Announces Gnat Pro for Rust Author : pjmlp Score : 70 points Date : 2023-09-30 20:16 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.adacore.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.adacore.com) | [deleted] | codetrotter wrote: | Sounds awesome! Too bad that it probably costs 10s of thousands | of dollars for a license or more. Judging from the fact that you | have to contact sales before they will even tell you :/ | tibbydudeza wrote: | I once asked why there was a POA in the Ferrari brochure (not | that I could afford one ever). | Veserv wrote: | Is 12 junior dev-days a lot of money for a software development | tool? A single junior dev costs 20x as much per year. Is having | 5% more junior devs on your team better than better tooling for | the other 95% of the team? | | I can see how it might be a impediment for tinkering and | hobbyists, but it is a pittance for any commercial usage. | rowanG077 wrote: | Where are 12 junior dev days worth more then 20k? Not even in | silicon valley salaries are that insane. | | Relying on proprietary technology is in itself a pretty large | risk regardless of the monetary cost. | pjmlp wrote: | In countries where seniors cost 100+ EUR/$ per hour in | project costs. | | Do the monthly math for respective FTE costs. | rowanG077 wrote: | How does the cost of a senior factor into it? This is | about junior cost. | | Besides even at 100+ EUR/$ per hour you don't come close | to 20k after 12 days. | pjmlp wrote: | It was to make a measurement point, it comes to 9600, | with some typical rounding adjustments as buffer, 10 000. | | Which is half of it, although in projects where Oracle | licences are rounding errors, I expect much higher rates. | coryrc wrote: | Employee total burden is about double their take-home | pay, so 2 x $100 x 8 x 12 is $19200. | Veserv wrote: | I was using 10 K$ as the baseline. | | Junior devs make 100-200 K$/yr in salary. The fully | burdened cost including overhead and benefits is usually | around double that at around 200-300 K$ (higher base | compensation usually results in lower proportional | overhead). In the US there are ~2000 working hours a year, | so that amounts to 100-150 $/hr. | | There are 8 hours per dev-day, so 96 dev-hours. At 100-150 | $/hr that is 9600-14400 $. | | If you are really obstinate about 20 K$, then just double | it and call it 25 junior-dev days. Whoopie, still only 10% | of the yearly cost of a junior-dev. Yeah, developers are | really expensive. So back to the original question, just | minimally changed to account for irrelevant factors of two. | | Do you think having 10% more junior devs on your team is | better than having better tooling for the other 90% of the | team? | rowanG077 wrote: | Well then you are still looking at silicon valley level | of salaries. The top of the top of the world. | | Let's take The Netherlands, where I live. A junior dev is | expected to make EUR34,422/year. This is still a western | country so let's go somewhere else. In China a junior dev | makes about Y=269,904 a year, or $1.806,89. Is this tool | worth 5+ man years of a junior dev? If your back of the | envelope calculations only barely make sense for a tiny | part of the world maybe the pricing is actually insane. | | edit: Y=269,904 is $37.002. Point still stands. | | > Do you think having 10% more junior devs on your team | is better than having better tooling for the other 90% of | the team? | | The tool would have to be pretty damn good. And also not | introduce business risk or at the very least a minimal | business risk. | khuey wrote: | > In China a junior dev makes about Y=269,904 a year, or | $1.806,89. Is this tool worth 5+ man years of a junior | dev? | | Try doing the currency conversion from Yuan to Dollars | and not from Yen to Dollars. | bsder wrote: | I no longer do proprietary licenses when my ass is on the | line. | | With a proprietary license, you are one set of legal filings | away from having the rug pulled out from under you. | | See: the Our Machinery fiasco. | https://www.rfleury.com/p/ships-icebergs-game-engines | | Or perhaps I should have linked to all the gnashing of teeth | about Unity | Agingcoder wrote: | I'm not sure about this specific contract, but historically | speaking, Adacore has sold support contracts, and even if | you stop paying, you're still allowed to use the compiler | versions you've paid for. Furthermore, since these | compilers are all based on upstream, and all Adacore work | eventually ends up upstream, there's essentially no risk | you're going to be left stranded. | Xylakant wrote: | You won't get around fees paid in the certified compiler | world. If you want someone to sign, stamp and deliver | paperwork proving that a compiler upholds a standard and | likely also take liability for it, you'll need to pay. Few | organizations will take on liability for free. | | But you can get pretty close, at least in some spaces. | Self-certification is always an option. Aerospace will be | harder, automotive is annoying but feasible. | | Ferrocene for one is entirely 100% compatible with the | equivalent rust compiler, in fact it is the rust compiler | built, qualify-tested, packages and delivered without any | significant (1) patches. As such, it's entirely feasible to | use "I'll just use open source rustc" as an escape hatch. | Not a pretty one, self certification is quite a bit of | effort, but a bounded one. There's no magic in what we did, | most of it is legwork. | | We even open sourced the spec that the certification is | based on, so you'll have to do less legwork than we did. | | This has in fact been a design goal and a requirement of | our early customers. | | I can't speak to Adacores plans regarding upstream | compatibility, I have no insight other than their public | statements and they've been silent on that matter. | | (1) a few lines, mostly target support for stuff rustc | doesn't offer in tree | | Disclosure: I'm one of the founders of Ferrous. | cmrdporcupine wrote: | So I guess I'm not clear about this -- have they implemented a | fresh new compiler that runs on the GNAT toolchain? Or is this a | stable/certified fork of the existing Rust LLVM-based toolchain | with a GNAT branding overtop of it? Or something inbetween? What | about associated tools like Cargo? Rustanalyzer, Rustfmt, etc.? | What version of Rust do they currently target? What about 3rd | party crates support etc? | | FWIW I work professionally in a space which is likely one of | their target markets (autonomous/precision agriculture) on a | system in Rust (and C++). I skimmed through the pages but didn't | find a technical explanation of what they're offering. | jiehong wrote: | > GNAT Pro for Rust is currently in early-access for select | customers and provides a compiler (rustc), a build and package | manager (cargo), and a debugger (gdb) for x86_64 Linux and | Linux cross targets. | doomrobo wrote: | What is GNAT? Is there an example? Code? Screenshots? | rekado wrote: | https://www.gnu.org/software/gnat/ | the_duke wrote: | See also the Ferrous Systems announcement about AdaCore leaving | their previous Rust partnership : | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37711274 ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-09-30 23:00 UTC)