[HN Gopher] Pixel 8 Pro
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Pixel 8 Pro
        
       Author : alphabetting
       Score  : 247 points
       Date   : 2023-10-04 15:19 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (store.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (store.google.com)
        
       | OneLeggedCat wrote:
       | I wonder if the fingerprint and face authentication still suck.
        
       | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
       | I was interested in this release. But right now it's a $20
       | difference here in CAD between the Pixel 8 Pro 256 GB and the S23
       | Ultra 256 GB (there's a sale going on for the S23). With all of
       | the Pixel's heat, battery, and connectivity issues (bad reception
       | I can live with, but not knowing if I can call 911?), I can't
       | justify it at all.
        
         | guyzero wrote:
         | But you have to deal with Samsung's UI in the S23 Ultra. It's
         | still not that great after over a decade of existence.
        
         | chenzhekl wrote:
         | Also, S23 Ultra is equipped with Snapdragon 8Gen2, which is
         | much more powerful than Tensor G3. The latter is almost
         | equivalent to 8+Gen1 in terms of CPU and GPU.
        
           | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
           | I honestly don't much care for benchmarks, but in this case
           | there's a direct correlation between power and efficiency.
           | The Pixel Pros are typically very poor for battery life and
           | that's really what I care about.
        
       | braydenm wrote:
       | Is there any word on whether the modem has moved to a different
       | supplier? I previously suffered challenges having to soft-reset
       | Pixel 6/7 to "Fix Connectivity" fairly frequently.
        
       | mupuff1234 wrote:
       | A pixel 7 for $400 seems like a much better deal.
        
         | jansommer wrote:
         | Yes! This is a steep increase in price since Pixel 7. Googles
         | upgrades are not going to happen for 7 years on Px7, but
         | hopefully GrapheneOS gives my phone a few extra years.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | bitskits wrote:
         | ...Especially considering the trade in values (~320USD for
         | Pixel 6).
        
       | e12e wrote:
       | Wait, have they changed handling of (e)SIMs? I'm happily using
       | two eSIMs on my pixel pro 7 (work and private). But looks like
       | this supports only one physical and one eSIM?
        
         | flotzam wrote:
         | The Pixel 7 Pro only has one eSIM chip too, which you're using
         | with the MEP (Multiple Enabled Profiles) feature:
         | 
         | "This feature allows devices to have dual SIM support using a
         | single eSIM chip, which can have multiple SIM profiles and can
         | connect to two different carriers at the same time."
         | https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/esim-mep
        
       | retskrad wrote:
       | The Pixel has like 1% of smartphone market and Google has been
       | making their down devices for 10 years now! I have two questions:
       | 
       | 1. Why hasn't Google pulled the plug and thrown in the white
       | towel yet? People have voted with their wallets and chosen
       | Samsung and Apple.
       | 
       | 2. Why is the Pixel devices getting such a massive news coverage?
       | Other smartphone ORM's with similar market share doesn't get the
       | same treatment.
        
         | slashtab wrote:
         | It is better for all of the Android enthusiasts.
        
         | Darky wrote:
         | 1. it's not a vote, it's a market. 2. Pixel devices set the
         | standard for every other android phones. the coverage is legit.
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | "vote with your wallet" is a common expression in American
           | English. Your correction is misplaced.
        
           | Xeamek wrote:
           | How do pixels set the standard any differenty then samsungs?
        
             | bmcahren wrote:
             | Samsungs are non-standard by default. They take the AOSP
             | experience which Pixel fully embraces then they hack in
             | cute fonts, water drop overlays, and replace the default
             | tooling that comes with Android to build their samsung
             | experience.
             | 
             | Pixel drives and creates the innovation like cut-out
             | display support, notification APIs that support multi-media
             | control for instance across multiple apps, sound multi-
             | plexing between apps, how calls interact with multimedia
             | apps, foldable display support, app switching, fingerprint
             | unlock support, the android API, etc.
             | 
             | Samsung takes that, twists it into their own.
             | 
             | In that essence, Pixel is the standard experience that
             | Android is meant to be whereas Samsung is a customized
             | experience built on the backbone of Android and in some
             | ways in opposition to Android Open Source Project & Pixel
             | Launcher's ideals.
             | 
             | Samsung android phones are the Ubuntu whereas Pixel is
             | Google's Debian.
        
         | remlov wrote:
         | It's now 3%.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | Still no availability in Hong Kong.
        
       | nneonneo wrote:
       | Cool, maybe they can fix emergency calling sometime in that seven
       | year window? https://www.androidauthority.com/psa-google-
       | pixel-911-emerge...
        
         | Alupis wrote:
         | FTFA:
         | 
         | > The issue was traced to Microsoft Teams
         | 
         | I want to know how a crappy app from Microsoft can break the
         | dialer on my phone. What the hell?
        
         | awill wrote:
         | that was incredible embarrassing. I remember it was the end of
         | December, and they said "it won't be in the January update.
         | Just wait until February"
         | 
         | I cannot imagine Apple doing that.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | "Was"? You mean "is". The issue is still ongoing for many
           | people.
        
           | buttersbrian wrote:
           | Apple has had some equally frustrating and embarrassing
           | misses in their time. No manufacturer is 100%.
        
       | willseth wrote:
       | Is anyone else confused by the inclusion of a temperature sensor?
       | Was there a demo that explains why anyone would want this? What?
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | Maybe the plan is to eventually have the phone include every
         | possible sensor and do _everything_.
         | 
         | https://xkcd.com/2212/
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | Seems to me to be a holdover from 2020. Interesting that Google
         | assumed we'd still be measuring temps at this point.
        
           | nsriv wrote:
           | This was my first thought as well. Curious to see if it
           | functions similarly or within a certain tolerance of one of
           | those much more expensive FLIR temp gauges you see laptop
           | reviewers use. MKBHD video showed that it asks for 5cm
           | distance from object being measured and for you to tap to
           | select type of material, which notably excludes skin temp.
        
         | losvedir wrote:
         | I'm intrigued by it. To be clear, it reads surface temperature,
         | not ambient temperature. The demo gave the example of a hot pot
         | on the stove, I think, and they mentioned they've submitted
         | something to the FDA to take your temperature (to see if you
         | have a fever).
        
         | chickenpotpie wrote:
         | My guess is that it's for AI photo editing features. The
         | temperature can help the AI model determine people from
         | objects.
        
         | cdchn wrote:
         | Maybe part of face unlock like liveness detectors for
         | fingerprint scanners.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | So they are incorporating that group-portrait-correction feature
       | (RealFill) after all.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37708292
        
       | kimbernator wrote:
       | It's starting to feel silly, having a yearly release cycle for
       | smartphones. So much of this product page is focused on new
       | software functions that may have some vague relationship with the
       | slightly upgraded hardware, but that could mostly be released to
       | existing phones. Every new iPhone, Pixel, or Samsung phone
       | basically claims the camera is marginally better and hey, look at
       | these software features that have very little to do with the
       | hardware and should not fundamentally be a reason to upgrade to
       | this phone.
       | 
       | There is so much time, effort, and physical waste that is
       | generated by slightly redesigning phones every year purely for
       | the sake of making sales (as opposed to meaningful improvement
       | upon the existing design or introduction of a new hardware
       | feature). Think not only of people upgrading for the sake of it,
       | but all of the cases, screen protectors, and other assorted
       | accessories cast in plastic for previous models that are garbage
       | now.
       | 
       | It would be nice if we could just space these things out to 5
       | years or so now, because that's probably how long it takes for
       | anything to change enough to justify a new model.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | The status quo is great. You have yearly releases that are
         | stable and allow anyone to upgrade without fear of the new
         | model coming out like with traditional video game consoles.
         | 
         | No one is forcing you to buy anything you don't want.
         | 
         | Also, the OS and apps need to take advantage of new hardware,
         | so it's not a surprise if your seven year old phone becomes
         | slower.
         | 
         | If you don't like the status quo then I would go with a non-iOS
         | and non-android phone like pine phone, Mairena, librem, or
         | anything else that based on a more open Linux distro.
        
           | kimbernator wrote:
           | I think it's interesting that you cite video game consoles as
           | a negative. I'd argue the opposite, I think phones should be
           | more like them.
           | 
           | With video game consoles, you have a single device where
           | micro-optimizations are constantly done, new features are
           | added, and all software can be purpose-built to work really
           | well on that specific hardware. All of that for ~7 years
           | means a really fantastic user experience and a massive
           | community of people that have collectively worked through
           | solutions to common problems and forced the company's hand on
           | defects (joycon drift, for example). It also means tons of
           | high-quality hardware-specific accessories, both from the
           | company that made the console and from third parties.
        
             | bravetraveler wrote:
             | I don't see why it couldn't be that way - I see people
             | overstating the hardware revisions. Apple, sure, they
             | innovate. Qualcomm? Hah.
             | 
             | For about five years it seemed like every flagship spanning
             | generations was the same SoC
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Eumenes wrote:
         | > It's starting to feel silly, having a yearly release cycle
         | for smartphones.
         | 
         | These companies virtue signal about climate change nonstop, but
         | still manage to produce disposable phones and light up their
         | data centers for advertising and user tracking
        
         | yccs27 wrote:
         | Yeah, it feels like smartphones are finally maturing, and they
         | are no longer new enough to justify the fast release cycles and
         | short support times.
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | Cars still release on a yearly schedule decades later and
           | they change almost nothing each year.
        
             | 0x457 wrote:
             | Well no. Car models have generations and mid-generation
             | updates (aka facelift).
             | 
             | It's very rare that there are any updates at all within the
             | same generation. Year in model designation is just "ha,
             | look at his looser driving last year BMW" and to show when
             | car left assembly line.
             | 
             | There are some examples where the same generation had a
             | significant upgrade without a facelift, but those are rare.
             | One example I could think of is MX-5 (ND): between 2015 and
             | 2018 there were no changes at all, but in late 2019 there
             | was nearly complete overhaul of its powertrain and then a
             | small update in 2021.
        
           | matsemann wrote:
           | I feel it's a decade since I was excited about a new phone.
           | Now I just copy over my settings and app, and act a bit
           | disgruntled for a week that things are slightly different.
        
         | mdgrech23 wrote:
         | man if you think that's bad let me introduce you to the
         | automobile industry.
        
         | utopcell wrote:
         | Five years ? Why would someone want to experience hardware
         | advances in large steps instead of continuously ?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | kimbernator wrote:
           | Based on the phrasing of this, I'm not sure if it's meant to
           | be taken sarcastically or not. Apologies if you did mean it
           | that way, because I'll respond seriously:
           | 
           | - Advances are mostly software.
           | 
           | - Massive quantities of e-waste (and plastic waste via cases,
           | screen protectors, etc).
           | 
           | - Perverse incentives by companies to not properly support
           | the user experience on older devices.
           | 
           | - Tons of money spent pointlessly.
        
         | quicklime wrote:
         | If I'm buying a phone 4 years into the cycle, I don't want to
         | start with a 4-year-old CPU and camera. 5 years later, when I'm
         | ready to get a new phone, that'll be a 9-year-old CPU and
         | camera. I'd rather have the latest tech when I buy it, and use
         | it until it stops working.
         | 
         | I agree though that the physical design should stay the same,
         | so that cases and accessories don't need to be thrown away.
         | Apple more-or-less does this with the iPhones, eg a case should
         | work with any iPhone 12-14.
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | In the iPhone 15 release they wrote "huge leap" 6 times. It
         | felt like something to anchor the perception and to trick
         | journalists to include it in a sentence. But when they say it
         | so much, it kinda shines through that it's mostly just
         | desperate words. "any man who must say I'm the king is no true
         | king" vibes.
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/09/apple-debuts-iphone-1...
        
           | theodric wrote:
           | It's always the greatest iPhone ever!
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPkso_6n0vs
        
           | animex wrote:
           | The fact that's it's just 15 seems to belie this. I would
           | expect Apple to re-brand once something truly different comes
           | along... that being said all smartphones are becoming long
           | and in the tooth and we're finally starting to see inklings
           | of what might replace our phone addiction in the near-term
           | (audio (buds) + vision, eyeglasses etc.)
        
         | mrinterweb wrote:
         | Obviously, companies that sell phones want to sell more phones
         | as frequently as possible. I'm just glad that Google is aware
         | that people value having longer term feature and security
         | support for their products. The new 7 years of feature and
         | security support is pretty fantastic.
        
         | taway1237 wrote:
         | I'm currently using Pixel 4a (just recently EOL), and I'll
         | probably upgrade my phone this or next year.
         | 
         | Maybe Pixel has a yearly release cycle, but it doesn't mean I
         | have to upgrade every year, that would be crazy. And they can
         | iterate more often to try some ideas more often than once every
         | 5 years.
        
         | oaktowner wrote:
         | I agree with much of this post, but I have to take issue with
         | "it's starting to feel silly." The "you need to upgrade your
         | phone every year" concept has been silly from the outset.
        
         | dominojab wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | karolist wrote:
         | Not everyone lives on the same upgrade cycle, you can, but
         | you're not supposed to change your phone every year. With
         | iPhone 15, the majority of people upgrading would be 12 and
         | older device owners.
        
           | awill wrote:
           | I agree. I find upgrading less frequently makes the upgrade
           | so much more significant. Upgrading yearly would leave you
           | complaining and wondering what's new.
           | 
           | I know people who lease a new car every 3 years. And often,
           | if there's no redesign, they're getting a nearly identical
           | vehicle. It's strange. Whereas, I upgrade my car every 10
           | years, and am thrilled with all the improvements.
        
             | pfannkuchen wrote:
             | I think the lease thing is more to avoid dealing with any
             | maintenance issues as well as the wear and tear on a less
             | than new car. It's not to get the newest tech or style all
             | the time AFAIK.
        
             | kimbernator wrote:
             | This is fine and good, but the problem is that once your
             | phone is no longer the newest thing, the experience takes a
             | hit because there's little incentive to actually support
             | your device anymore.
        
           | kimbernator wrote:
           | That is technically true. However, I do find that a lot of
           | people I know tend to get new phones well before they
           | actually have a need for them.
           | 
           | I don't entirely blame peoples' consumerism; As somebody who
           | once worked in cell phone sales, the mere act of visiting a
           | carrier store is likely to land you in front of a salesperson
           | who is incentivized to sell new phones and lines
           | indiscriminately. Not to mention the incredible amount of
           | advertising that goes into phones - if people only upgraded
           | when they needed new phones, I don't think Apple, Samsung, or
           | Google would feel the need to advertise the new ones so
           | aggressively.
           | 
           | HN is likely a much more tech-literate crowd than the average
           | person, so I think to a lot of us it seems silly to buy new
           | phones every year. But I know that every time Apple releases
           | a new iPhone, I get a call from my dad asking if it's worth
           | upgrading from last year's model. I say no, nothing has
           | changed, but the next time I see him he has it. Why? Because
           | the salesperson made such a convincing case, not only about
           | the merit of the new phone, but the fact that they could give
           | him such a "deal" on it.
        
             | kaba0 wrote:
             | > lot of people I know tend to get new phones well before
             | they actually have a need for them
             | 
             | It might just be your "bubble", but even if not, is it
             | really that bad of a deal? If you resell your previous
             | phone at 2/3 the original price each year, you can use the
             | latest phone for like 200 bucks for a year, or $17 monthly.
             | For a device that is with you 0-24, and is probably the
             | most often used item a typical person owns -- they have it
             | on them more often than even their shoes!
        
               | kimbernator wrote:
               | I feel qualified to say it's not just my bubble, having
               | worked in cell phone sales. The business hinges on the
               | fact that people don't run out the useful life of their
               | devices.
               | 
               | Incentives exist on the part of the person who, being
               | human, definitely want the new shiny thing, regardless of
               | the logic behind it.
               | 
               | They exist for the salesperson, who will get a commission
               | for selling the new shiny thing, regardless of whether
               | this makes the customer's life any better or worse.
               | 
               | They exist for the carrier because the customer is on the
               | hook for 2-3 years of service when they buy the shiny
               | thing.
               | 
               | Finally, they exist for the company that made the phone
               | because they make a profit on the sale price of the shiny
               | thing.
        
               | bruceb wrote:
               | Math doesn't work. Entry iphone 15 pro is $1,000. Say Tax
               | is .08, so $1,080 out the door.
               | 
               | 1 year from now if you sell it for 2/3 the price, you get
               | back $720. A year's use cost you $360. About $1 a day.
               | This is very worth it for some but not quite as cheap as
               | $200 a year. This is without factoring in time to sell.
               | 
               | You could trade in but that means you are locked in
               | contract with service provider.
        
               | Krasnol wrote:
               | Yeah, but in the end they are those who fuel the waste
               | machine. They start it, and they are the reason why there
               | are new phones every year. For no sane reason.
               | 
               | Somewhere along the way, you pass a threshold where it's
               | uncool to have a certain version of phone and judging
               | from what you hear about the waste problem with phones,
               | it's above the reasonable moment to get rid of it because
               | it's broken or not usable.
               | 
               | I mean, sure it's a nice lie you can tell to yourself,
               | but in the end, it's not good.
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | Apple has a few products like the ipad mini and imac that
           | don't release on yearly schedules and it creates this
           | situation where there are good and bad years to buy. Where
           | the product hasn't been refreshed for 3/4 years and is now
           | severely outdated and a major refresh is something like 6
           | months away. It's pretty bad for the customer and the seller.
           | Meanwhile it's always a good time to buy an iphone. There is
           | no point waiting for the next model because it won't be
           | meaningfully different.
        
           | ezequiel-garzon wrote:
           | Indeed, Apple compares on its website the iPhone 15 to the
           | iPhone 12: "The A16 Bionic GPU is up to 40% faster than the
           | GPU in iPhone 12" [1]. Maybe unsurprisingly, they don't use
           | this comparison for the Pro line. r/iphone discussion here
           | [2].
           | 
           | [1] https://www.apple.com/mt/iphone-15/
           | 
           | [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/16h13z3/why_are_
           | the...
        
             | agrippanux wrote:
             | That's an awesome stat in favor of the iPhone 12, which is
             | now 3+ years old.
        
         | AuthorizedCust wrote:
         | Your premise is wrong.
         | 
         | Old phones that have economic life get cleaned up and re-sold.
         | The fact that manufacturers tweak phones annually does not
         | change this.
        
           | rurp wrote:
           | Based on the numbers I found from a few minutes of searching
           | you are incorrect. _Some_ phones get resold or reused, most
           | do not. Only 25% of people are using a secondhand phone and
           | the phone population is increasing at 5x the human rate.
        
         | chiefalchemist wrote:
         | The Apple adverts push the fact that the 15 is titanium. That's
         | it.
         | 
         | The ad I keep seeing doesn't even hint at why Titanium matters.
         | No matter, the point is, evidently the technical aspects don't
         | seem to matter.
        
         | mtreis86 wrote:
         | It makes sense for gaming consoles, I don't see what is so
         | different (these days) about phones.
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | They are selling millions of each version. There's lots of
         | products where the volume is more like 10,000. The waste isn't
         | in the product that is selling millions...
        
         | muxxa wrote:
         | Try out https://shop.fairphone.com/fairphone-5 for a
         | repair/upgrade friendly alternative
        
         | brokencode wrote:
         | A lot of these new software features are enabled by better
         | hardware. Especially AI features, which can require quite
         | specialized and powerful processors. On-device LLMs are the
         | next frontier in personal assistant software, and that can only
         | be enabled by better hardware.
         | 
         | Even the image processing for high resolution images can
         | benefit from better hardware. Modern smartphones are heavily
         | dependent on image processing to improve camera quality.
         | Without the right hardware, performance and energy efficiency
         | could be unacceptable.
        
         | dottjt wrote:
         | Isn't domain knowledge lost when we don't regularly build and
         | release things?
         | 
         | Isn't this why we're struggling to build nuclear in some
         | countries because they weren't building it regularly, and now
         | it's difficult to scale, let alone build new ones?
         | 
         | I understand that it's wasteful, but maybe it's necessary to
         | sustain itself? Especially from a feedback perspective from
         | consumers?
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | This seems divorced from reality. Just because a new phone is
         | released every year, it doesn't mean you need to buy a new one
         | every year.
         | 
         | Small, incremental improvements each year means that whenever
         | you buy a new device, it's modern (not using 4 year old
         | components), and substantially 'better' than the previous one.
        
         | bradgessler wrote:
         | Try this: don't upgrade your phone for five years.
         | 
         | The annual incremental release cycle is fine--what's silly is
         | thinking phones need to be upgraded every year.
        
         | 0xDEF wrote:
         | Nobody is demanding that you buy a new smartphone every year.
         | Modern smartphones have 3-5 years of security/bug updates and
         | the batteries no longer degrade as fast as they used to.
        
           | kimbernator wrote:
           | I bought my pixel 7 early this year because my s20's screen
           | broke and the cost to buy a new one to replace it myself,
           | which is not something I think most people would be willing
           | to do (instead paying even more for someone else to do it),
           | exceeded the cost to buy another S20. On top of that, the
           | moment my 3 year old, perfectly working phone had anything
           | other than a pristine screen, it had zero trade-in value and
           | basically encouraged me to throw it in a drawer or the trash.
           | This was literally Samsung's flagship phone only 3 years
           | prior.
           | 
           | That could have probably been mitigated if the s20 remained
           | relevant for more than a year or two and there was a mature
           | parts market that made it feasible to upkeep rather than
           | scrap.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | Normally I agree with you, but I don't think that's the case
         | this year at least. The on-device ML chip (Tensor G3) is a
         | legit difference-maker. A lot of the ML features they are
         | rolling out wouldn't be possible on older hardware. You could
         | do the non-realtime portions in the cloud, but the realtime
         | audio cleanup wouldn't work for example (way too much latency).
         | Also, personally I much prefer on-device. I frequently have
         | spotty data connections so it's very disruptive when stuff
         | relies on cloud connectivity.
        
         | TaylorAlexander wrote:
         | It's funny because if they did not release a new phone every
         | year, the old phones would be useful for longer. I recently had
         | to replace my iPhone 7s plus because it was getting so slow I
         | sometimes could not get the camera to open as it loaded the
         | system down too much. This was despite the fact that the system
         | said my battery was not degraded (it had been replaced with
         | Apple Care a couple of times).
         | 
         | Of course when it was new the camera opened quickly. And then
         | Apple made their OS more heavy weight every year until my phone
         | slowed to a crawl.
         | 
         | And faster phones are nice, but I think it is worth considering
         | how valuable that really is to us as users and a society,
         | especially if the process involves making loads and loads of
         | ewaste and consuming tons of new resources, and all the
         | emissions their mining and transport involves, when we could
         | simply keep our software slim and our old devices functional.
         | 
         | And the big companies will never do this. Do we need to force
         | them to allow open software to run on these devices, so that
         | clean builds can be patched and maintained when the company
         | over bloats them or abandons them?
        
           | vel0city wrote:
           | I wonder how much of that is the software demands increasing
           | and the flash storage itself wearing out over time. As flash
           | storage wears it'll often go slower and slower as the error
           | correction needs to process more to actually get you the
           | uncorrupted bits. This is why a lot of cheap devices tend to
           | just become unbearably slow after a while, their storage just
           | gets to be way too slow.
           | 
           | Flash storage doesn't last forever, and it's got a whole
           | gradient of failure and wear experiences.
        
             | chimeracoder wrote:
             | > I wonder how much of that is the software demands
             | increasing and the flash storage itself wearing out over
             | time. As flash storage wears it'll often go slower and
             | slower as the error correction needs to process more to
             | actually get you the uncorrupted bits. This is why a lot of
             | cheap devices tend to just become unbearably slow after a
             | while, their storage just gets to be way too slow.
             | 
             | Too bad no flagship phones have removable storage anymore,
             | because that would be a really easy fix to this problem.
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | If we're looking at older phones with removable storage,
               | it usually limited what could be put on the SD card. And
               | in the end the OS and system libraries were still on the
               | on-board storage which would wear out over the years.
               | 
               | And there's good reason for the OS _not_ being on a
               | microSD card. Run a Raspberry Pi without locking the
               | storage and see how fast it 'll corrupt itself. Most SD
               | cards have pretty miserable reliability compared to the
               | storage on-board. Imagine if you had to re-image your
               | device every few weeks after your storage device
               | corrupted itself again. Not really a great experience.
        
           | whatscooking wrote:
           | There's no such thing as the iPhone 7S Plus, but nice story
        
             | cmcaleer wrote:
             | Or there are such things as regional exclusives.
             | 
             | https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/apple-
             | ip...
        
           | sanswork wrote:
           | I don't update my phone every year but I also don't really
           | want the progress of software or tech in general determined
           | by the laggards.
        
             | hamandcheese wrote:
             | If anything it seems to me like hardware advances are
             | directly correlated with increasingly worse software.
        
               | sanswork wrote:
               | People have been saying this literally since the release
               | of the pentium and probably earlier. From where I'm
               | sitting software is millions of times better today than
               | it was in the 90s when I first started hearing people
               | saying this(usually complaining about developers using
               | C++ instead of assembly).
               | 
               | Even just on the iphone the improvements in software have
               | been dramatic over the past 10 years. Go install one of
               | the early versions of ios on the simulator some time to
               | see how far we've come.
        
               | Barrin92 wrote:
               | > From where I'm sitting software is millions of times
               | better today than it was in the 90s
               | 
               | I feel compelled to bring up this tweet from John Carmack
               | I just saw a few hours ago. The most popular editor on
               | the planet feels laggier than stuff Borland made in the
               | 90s, on hardware probably a thousand times as fast. I
               | don't know how anyone can say software is great with a
               | straight face.
               | 
               | We have supercomputers in our pockets and on the slightly
               | aged phone my dad refuses to upgrade from four years ago
               | many apps lag. They display like 5 widgets or 20 rows of
               | items at any given time
               | 
               | https://x.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1709651442762481877?s=
               | 20
        
             | kimbernator wrote:
             | I think that a new phone release should just be warranted.
             | The trigger should be "we made significant improvements
             | that couldn't be applied in software to the old device"
             | instead of "it's October"
        
               | sanswork wrote:
               | An improved camera can't be something applied in
               | software, a faster chip can't be applied in software. So
               | by your own standard every version is warranted.
        
               | rurp wrote:
               | My last three phone upgrades have been decidedly 'meh',
               | and I only upgrade every 2-3 years. There have been some
               | marginal improvements in battery life and performance,
               | and some software niceties; but those get counteracted by
               | bloat, regressions, and UX churn. Replacable battery and
               | storage becoming less common is categorically worse for
               | users.
               | 
               | A phone with upgradable parts and minimal bloat would be
               | better than any recent phone I've had, but it would also
               | be less profitable for Google so obviously they will
               | avoid that as much as possible.
        
               | kimbernator wrote:
               | "significant" is the key word here. I'd be hard pressed
               | to think of a generational release of an existing phone
               | line in the last 5 years that I would describe as a
               | "significant" improvement.
               | 
               | The things you listed (camera and chip speed) are
               | basically the only things left that these companies can
               | claim is better than last year's model, but only because
               | it's so easy to use synthetic benchmarks and numbers that
               | mean nothing to make them sound like a dramatic
               | improvement despite the fact that we've reached the
               | bottom of the barrel in terms of diminishing returns on
               | the user experience for smartphones in their current
               | form. More megapixels don't matter anymore, CPUs are
               | hardly a limiting factor and yearly gains on their
               | performance are marginal at best, and we have more than
               | enough RAM for pretty much all use cases.
               | 
               | My point is that if these companies insist on re-
               | releasing the same phone every time, maybe they could
               | space it out a little.
        
               | sanswork wrote:
               | Just because you don't value the type of improvements
               | doesn't mean there aren't improvements. It just means you
               | probably don't need to upgrade this year.
        
           | kimbernator wrote:
           | I know there have been cases where companies seem to
           | intentionally slow down old phones to encourage new sales,
           | but it doesn't really even require an "evil" motive. By
           | releasing new hardware yearly, they are dramatically
           | increasing their workload by having to support every device.
           | On top of that, there's the perverse incentive that spending
           | the money to release timely, high-quality updates to
           | previous-generation devices will actually have a negative
           | impact on their bottom line by reducing new sales.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | danielheath wrote:
           | That's specifically covered under new EU ewaste laws -
           | upgrades the impair device performance must be fixed in a
           | reasonable timeframe.
        
           | kaba0 wrote:
           | > And then Apple made their OS more heavy weight every year
           | until my phone slowed to a crawl.
           | 
           | I mean, it is a bit unfair against Apple - some of the reason
           | behind the OS getting more heavyweight is actually
           | backporting new features in 7 year's distance, many which
           | actually has dedicated hardware in case of the more modern
           | lineup.
           | 
           | Also, there is a big aspect which is independent of Apple:
           | _every_ app is getting more and more heavy, the same phone
           | now has to open a 500MB facebook app, not a 70MB one (just
           | random numbers).
           | 
           | Also, the whole "yearly replacement" thing is just.. not an
           | actual thing. People on average change their phones every 3
           | years, where the accumulated small improvements do add up.
           | But everyone is at a different point in the cycle, so it
           | absolutely makes sense. Add to it how apple devices hold
           | their value to an insane degree, often living 2nd-3rd lives,
           | and one would be really hard-pressed to actually pinpoint
           | apple as a threat against our planet - compared to cheap
           | androids that are barely good for a single year due to
           | instantly obsolete software, has no resale value whatsoever,
           | and are absolutely single-use.
           | 
           | I am not a proponent of extreme capitalism/libertarianism,
           | but I really have a hard time with a realistic business model
           | that would be significantly better.
        
             | tap-snap-or-nap wrote:
             | > People on average change their phones every 3 years
             | 
             | People in my circles seem to use their phones for 6-7 years
             | atleast.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | And those people are the reason that the average is three
               | years, instead of one year like the teenagers do.
        
               | kimbernator wrote:
               | This figure sourcing gallup has nearly half of Americans
               | replacing their phone "as soon as their carrier allows
               | it":
               | https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/07/15/how-
               | often-...
        
             | jonplackett wrote:
             | If Apple just let people hang out on the last nicely-
             | working version of iOS, where their camera still opens
             | fast, then that'd be fine. But they don't. They bully you
             | into always being on the latest
             | 
             | Also, I remember a while back they did a specific optimised
             | speed-up release of iOS with barely any new features and it
             | _really_ worked. My iPhone 6S went from being basically
             | garbage I was going to replace to like a brand new phone.
             | 
             | They can do it if they want to. It's what's needed now. My
             | iPhone 12 Pro has started to feel super slow since I got
             | iOS 17. I have a new battery. Even texting feels painfully
             | slow. There's no excuse for this. It's either deliberate
             | and bad, or lazy and bad. Either way it's bad.
        
         | triceratops wrote:
         | You may not buy a new phone every year. But there's always
         | someone who's buying a new phone right now. Why should they
         | have to buy hardware that's potentially almost 5 years old?
        
         | sawyna wrote:
         | My pixel 4a 5g works like a charm. 3.5 years and still going
         | fine. I used my pixel 2 for three years so badly. I used it as
         | a hotspot every single day and the number of battery cycles
         | were as if the phone was used for 6 years.
         | 
         | My pixel 4a5g takes photos that are on reasonable standards,
         | obviously they won't match match, but it doesn't make a serious
         | difference either to me. I need three things from my phone -
         | battery, camera and lag free user experience. I don't need
         | thinner bezels for gods sake, I can't understand the craze and
         | demand for thinner bezels over a two day battery life.
        
           | theodric wrote:
           | Whatever you do, don't take the Android 14 upgrade. Mine is
           | dogshit slow now. I'm trying to decide if I can be bothered
           | losing all my config and setting it up again with Android 13,
           | or just paying Google for a new phone.
        
             | jsight wrote:
             | It may just need a little while to settle down. I get the
             | feeling a lot of things get updated in the background after
             | the initial upgrade.
             | 
             | I noticed that my old Pixel 5 felt really slow for the
             | first 30 minutes or so, but it seems to be returning to
             | normal now.
        
         | theodric wrote:
         | Unfortunately the world is filled with people like my fried
         | who, without fail, buys - for cash, not as part of a contract
         | renewal - the max spec iPhone available every year. One for
         | him, one for his wife. Sell the old ones, or give them to
         | family. Revenue like that is too hard for these companies to
         | pass up. And so we get this waste.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | What's silly isn't the fact that they release new smartphones
         | every year but that people feel compelled to upgrade every
         | year.
         | 
         | Incremental annual hardware refreshes are great, because
         | everyone who is in the market for a phone can always get the
         | latest and greatest and can be set for several years. For those
         | that give in to the marketing and throw away perfectly usable
         | devices and a thousand+ dollars - well that's nobody's fault
         | but their own.
        
       | modzu wrote:
       | pixel 6 and 7 have severly weak fingerprint sensors, they
       | overheat, and have basic telephone connectivity issues. its
       | unfortunate not to see any of these basic table stakes addressed
       | and instead just get a dog and pony show for the camera software
       | and how it can produce fake photos
        
         | IE6 wrote:
         | > and have basic telephone connectivity issues
         | 
         | This turned me off to Pixel phones indefinitely. I got the
         | Pixel 6 Pro and it could not figure out what it should be
         | connected to: WiFi, 5G, or 4G and of course rather than just
         | choosing one it decided to not have any connection whatsoever
         | unless I moved a few hundred feet to a different location or
         | rebooted the phone. There was lots of discussion around this
         | and youtubers even covered it but rather than fix the issue
         | Google focused on releasing the next phone.
        
         | RedComet wrote:
         | The fingerprint sensors on the 6 and newer are terrible and
         | massive downgrades in every way from previous models. Is there
         | any indication that the 8 is moving to ultrasonic as rumored?
        
       | syncbehind wrote:
       | I wonder if the audio magic eraser feature will make it to older
       | pixel phones. That and the best-shot one seemed very interesting.
       | 
       | It also seems very arbitrarily limited to the newer ones, 7/7pro
       | seem like they should be more than capable of driving these
       | features.
       | 
       | Is software limiting going to be the norm going forward for
       | phones?
       | 
       | Because, I don't think this is worth upgrading from last years
       | phones from a hardware basis.
       | 
       | Perhaps, we've reached a point in smartphones where the
       | development cycles will be more iterative, instead of truly
       | groundbreaking.
        
         | jsight wrote:
         | The same thing happened with photo magic eraser, but it
         | eventually was released for other devices.
        
         | seabrookmx wrote:
         | I think we've been there for quite some time. iOS is also
         | limiting certain features based on model like this. The new 15
         | has certain image processing features the 14 Pro doesn't get,
         | even though they have the same SoC.
        
         | alephxyz wrote:
         | They've already been limiting some of the "AI" image editing
         | features to newer pixels (but installing the same app package
         | on older phones works just fine).
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | I couldn't find a comprehensive history of all the features
         | that have debuted on a new phone and then been allowed on older
         | phones, but it's fairly common. 2 examples are listed here:
         | https://www.phonearena.com/news/pixel-6-series-gets-pixel-7-...
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | Yep, I expect most of these to make it to older pixels but
           | probably not for a few months. There are some that probably
           | require the newer Tensor G3 chip though, which can't be
           | backported.
        
       | DustinBrett wrote:
       | The free watch included was the final thing to sell me on a pre-
       | order.
        
       | krzyk wrote:
       | And again no Face Unlock like we had in Pixel 4 :(
       | 
       | COVID basically ended and they still won't bring that back, I was
       | hoping that Apple push for that will make Android phones also
       | with a nice and secure face unlocking (for us that have issues
       | with fingerprint sensors not recognizing their fingerprints)
        
         | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
         | Face unlock without a 3D sensor is insecure, period.
        
           | fullstop wrote:
           | The Pixel 4 had lidar for that feature.
        
           | cdchn wrote:
           | Seems like this one has an IR sensor, maybe they use that as
           | well (but probably not as good as lidar)
        
         | stonewhite wrote:
         | Features do include Face Unlock if you scroll down enough
        
           | krzyk wrote:
           | That's the unsecure one with only camera. And they don't
           | allow to use that where fingerprint.
           | 
           | Pixel 4 had dot projector for security.
        
             | Grazester wrote:
             | Apparently it is secure enough to use for payment apps now
             | on the Pixel 8
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | They seem fairly confident in it.
             | 
             | "Face Unlock on Pixel 8 now meets the strongest Android
             | biometric class and can be used for banking app sign-in and
             | payment apps like Google Wallet."
             | 
             | https://blog.google/products/pixel/google-
             | tensor-g3-pixel-8/
        
       | otikik wrote:
       | Oversized and overpriced.
        
       | Kiuhrly1 wrote:
       | Honestly the most appealing thing for me is the seven years of
       | software support. The Pixel 5 support leaves a lot to be desired,
       | given that I don't even want to upgrade from the hardware.
       | 
       | The demo video of their AI photo editor was kind of mind blowing
       | but ultimately not a feature I would use. I've seen a few
       | complaints about their automatic photo processing as well, which
       | you can't disable in the official camera app.
       | 
       | Overall the majority of their features seem to be software which
       | is tied to Google apps/services, which doesn't sit well with me.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | > _Honestly the most appealing thing for me is the seven years
         | of software support_
         | 
         | Yup. I've been clinging to my Pixel 4, but it hasn't gotten
         | security updates in a year, which I'm not particularly
         | comfortable with (been lucky so far, knock on wood). I might
         | pick up the Pixel 8 (not Pro, god that thing is huge) mainly
         | due to the support lifetime. And it does seem like their non-
         | Pro releases are actually _decreasing_ in physical size for the
         | past few years. Still a couple /few mm larger than the Pixel 4,
         | but that's doable, I think.
        
       | drcongo wrote:
       | Reminds me of a Ford Edsel.
        
       | rayeigenfeldt wrote:
       | Pixels Image Process way too much. They add stuff into photos
       | which is not necessarily there in order to make them look better.
       | These devices are terrible.
        
         | owenpalmer wrote:
         | Can you give an example?
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | Snoozer like the iPhone 15 release. No real innovation, just a
       | new chip, improved cameras, and a bunch of waxing and waning
       | about premium materials that I will never see again after I slap
       | a case on it.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | Why do people expect to be blown away every year? Most people
         | upgrade their phone every 2-3 years. This isn't the early
         | smartphone days where there was tons of room for improvement.
         | Moore's law has gotten increasingly closer to ending, screens
         | are as pixel dense as necessary, and people generally are
         | satisfied with the capabilities of their phone. Starting around
         | 2017 smartphones as we know them peaked and so they just shove
         | bigger/better/more cameras into them for the most part.
        
           | proee wrote:
           | There is tons of room for innovation in phones, but most
           | companies don't want to risk deviating from what consumers
           | think they want (just like Hollywood movies).
           | 
           | I'm sure the HN crowd could come together and form a list of
           | 100 ideas that are truly innovative in the phone space.
           | However, these ideas are quite risky to bring to market.
           | 
           | Some ideas:
           | 
           | 1. Super Amazing Sound playback (next level) 2. Rollable
           | display 3. More I/O (for 3rd party ecosystems)
        
             | 01100011 wrote:
             | How much of that can be delivered at a price point that is
             | acceptable to consumers?
        
             | tick_tock_tick wrote:
             | Yeah but those are all worthless for selling a phone.
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | If you want something innovative there's always the foldables,
         | one of which is Google's. I'm not sure what other form factor
         | you're looking for in a phone, turns out that "glass slab
         | that's nearly 100% screen" is a pretty decent design choice.
        
       | dmbche wrote:
       | Is this one able to call 911?
        
         | cloudking wrote:
         | Yes, if you buy the 911+ monthly subscription upgrade
        
           | fitz-re wrote:
           | You get a free trial year with the purchase of the phone.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | It calls the real number, 9-1-2.
        
       | andrewstuart2 wrote:
       | I'm really glad to see both the partnership with iFixit and the 7
       | years of support. Because everything else seems mostly meh to me,
       | and while I'm upgrading this year from a Pixel 6 Pro, the
       | continued diminished returns make it seem likely that 2-3 years
       | from now I won't have as much reason to.
        
         | Alacart wrote:
         | My experience with my own pixel 7 pro and a pixel 5 has been
         | that these devices are an order of magnitude lower in build
         | quality than Samsung or iPhones. I really, really wanted to be
         | happy with them but they've been a never ending source of
         | frustration.
         | 
         | My pixel 5 just stopped turning on one day about 2 years in,
         | and my pixel 7 pro had the volume and power buttons fall out
         | about 3 weeks in (not due to a drop, after googling it's
         | apparently a very widely seen issue).
         | 
         | The service with iFixit was unhelpful, they told me "We keep
         | seeing this and Google says this is wear and tear. We can't
         | submit it for a warranty repair, and if we try we end up eating
         | the cost". After finally complaining on twitter I was contacted
         | by some support person who said to give iFixit this email and
         | they would fix it. They still refused, and after a few more
         | rounds of interactions like that I eventually bought some
         | replacement buttons on Amazon, popped them in, and put a case
         | that covers them on it. I'm fully expecting this to randomly
         | die some time before 2 years is up.
         | 
         | Combine that with Google's extremely strong tendency to abandon
         | everything, promises like these seem well, worthless.
         | 
         | Meanwhile my daughter is using my wife's old iPhone from 8
         | years ago. My Samsung note 3 and my s8 still boot up and work
         | just fine (though I cracked the screen on one about 5 years
         | ago). It's just so obvious that these phones are very low
         | priority to Google, while other companies base their business
         | around their phones.
        
           | thefz wrote:
           | > My experience with my own pixel 7 pro and a pixel 5 has
           | been that these devices are an order of magnitude lower in
           | build quality than Samsung or iPhones.
           | 
           | Subjective, I am at my third Pixel phone in six years and I
           | never had an issue.
        
             | buerkle wrote:
             | I'm still on my same iPhone for almost 4 years. Getting a
             | new phone every two years doesn't scream quality to me.
        
               | buttersbrian wrote:
               | I am biased, as I've had every pro/xl but the Pixel6 and
               | the google nexus phone's prior to that.
               | 
               | With that being said i've only had questionable build
               | quality on 2 occasions. The Huawei 6p which was covered
               | under a recall, and the Panda Pixel 2XL where there was
               | some lamination issues.
               | 
               | That being said, the build quality and materials (mostly)
               | really stepped up initially in the Pixel 4, and then
               | noticeably again in the P7. They are quite nice. I don't
               | really find them lacking in quality, fit, or finish these
               | days.
        
               | thefz wrote:
               | Neither does your case, honestly.
               | 
               | My GF is still using a Pixel 3 pro every day.
        
               | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
               | I'm a Pixel owner, and the phone quality has been stellar
               | IMO, but I would never use any phone that couldn't get
               | security updates - zero days, and sometimes zero days
               | that require no or very little user action, are too
               | common with cell phones. Which is why I think the 7 year
               | support announcement is great news.
        
             | jmilloy wrote:
             | I'd guess you aren't seeing the build quality issues as
             | frequently because you replace your phone more often. Three
             | phones on six years sounds like a lot to me
        
               | thefz wrote:
               | See above comment as to why.
        
             | vetinari wrote:
             | > I am at my third Pixel phone in six years and I never had
             | an issue.
             | 
             | Don't you think that three phones in six years _is_ the
             | issue?
             | 
             | I'm still on 2019 Galaxy S10, i.e. fourth year, single
             | phone. The hardware is still in great condition, no
             | malfunction of anything.
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | But now you're stuck with no more security updates, but
               | Samsung has gotten much better at that as well recently.
        
               | vetinari wrote:
               | I don't really mind; it concerns only updates of core
               | system, not apps. Apps are still updated, so I get
               | updated browser, mail and other apps, that could be
               | attacked; they are not locked to the system. It makes the
               | attack surface vastly smaller.
        
               | thefz wrote:
               | > Don't you think that three phones in six years is the
               | issue?
               | 
               | One (P3) ended with me having it in the back pocket of my
               | jeans and literally jumping in the backseat... yeah, not
               | smart.
               | 
               | Another (P4a), I tried to open to swap a new battery in
               | and it did not end well. I'd still happily be with the 4a
               | if it was not for my dumb self. It's perfectly working
               | and I use it to listen to some music while biking or at
               | the gym. I just did not reattach the speaker cable.
        
               | kelnos wrote:
               | Would you still be with it, though? Someone upthread
               | claims the phones just don't last. Maybe if you hadn't
               | broken your phones, they still wouldn't've lasted much
               | longer anyway.
               | 
               | Having said that, I'm still using my 4-year-old Pixel 4,
               | and it's in great shape. I'll probably get a new phone
               | this year since it's no longer receiving security
               | updates. Which is stupid, because I'm otherwise perfectly
               | happy with the phone. And hate that they get physically
               | larger every year.
        
               | thefz wrote:
               | Idea was to stretch the P4a until the end of security
               | updates.
               | 
               | The reason is that it is much, much more compact and it's
               | perfect to carry around when on the bike as it does not
               | wedge into my quad when pedaling. And it's easier to hold
               | with my gloves on. Well, it's living a second life full
               | of music and OsmAnd maps.
        
           | zdragnar wrote:
           | My wife and I have apparently been lucky enough to buy the 6
           | variant then- we've had nothing but good luck with ours, and
           | we haven't been babying them either.
           | 
           | I miss some of the nice touches LG added on top of stock
           | Android, but the hardware has met all expectations so far.
        
           | kenhwang wrote:
           | My friends regularly have to have their Pixels
           | replaced/retired due to hardware failures around the 2 year
           | mark. The 7 years of support is nice, but these phones don't
           | last anywhere near that long.
        
             | hef19898 wrote:
             | I had a Pixel 2 XL that was replaced this year not because
             | it was broken, well the screen was bit that's hardly the
             | phones fault, but because my carrier had an offer on a
             | Pixel 7 that was too good to be true. The Pixel 2 is still
             | working so, even if there are no more OS updates anymore.
        
             | trey-jones wrote:
             | All anecdotal but I would still be using my Pixel 1 if
             | there was software support. 4a5g still going strong for
             | both my wife and me.
        
           | shopvaccer wrote:
           | I have had a pretty similarly bad experience repairing my
           | pixel 4a the other month. Purchased a new screen and kit from
           | ifixit for 1/3 the cost of buying a new phone, even had to
           | get a heat gun to unglue the old screen, and guess what? she
           | dies a week later anyways due to some other issue.
           | 
           | The problem with all these phones is that they're kind of
           | built to be disposable. They're just glued together plastic.
           | And even if you can repair the phone or it survives 5 years
           | or so, the vendor is just going to stop supporting the
           | chipset anyways.
           | 
           | Just got a fairphone 4, optimistic but the build quality is
           | shit and they're already rolling out a fairphone 5 now...
           | whatever, I use AOSP. I can't stand samsung anyways with all
           | the crapware they put on stock android.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | Yeah. I didn't want to buy a Google phone but they're the
           | only ones supported by GrapheneOS. From what I've read
           | they've got pretty good reasons for supporting them too. Why
           | can't Samsung step up and offer the same security features
           | and firmware update schedules? I'm using a Samsung Galaxy
           | Note 9 and it's been excellent for many years but it doesn't
           | matter if it doesn't run the software I want.
        
             | shopvaccer wrote:
             | With respect to grapheneOS on samsung, I don't think it's
             | about security. It's about openness, there is already
             | samsung knox (or whatever it is called, samsung dex?) so
             | clearly they know how to make a secure enclave it's just
             | that samsung wants to keep their stuff proprietary.
             | 
             | In general samsung and others (huawei, etc.) are trying to
             | get a grip on android, and open-source seems to oppose
             | that.
             | 
             | I don't know what motivates google to lean in so hard with
             | open-source ( maybe trying to prevent fragmentation or
             | avoid future antitrust or set a "clean" example standard
             | for stock android with their pixel brand ), but we do
             | currently enjoy its fruits.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | You're right about that. Google seems to be a lot more
               | open with its hardware compared to other manufacturers.
               | This attitude apparently even extends towards their
               | laptops. It's certainly something I've come to appreciate
               | about Google.
        
               | hparadiz wrote:
               | Why does no one ever consider Sony? They let you unlock
               | the bootloader and the hardware is excellent.
        
               | izacus wrote:
               | I stopped when they started permanently breaking camera
               | procesing on bootloader unlock.
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | Same, in fact it's the reason I buy and continue to buy
               | their products. I continually hope that doesn't change
        
           | andrewprock wrote:
           | I had one Pixel 2 that lasted five years. I had another that
           | lasted only six months before the screen just stopped working
           | at all. We'll see how long my current Pixel 5a lasts.
        
             | duffyjp wrote:
             | My wife's 5a was bit by a common "screen" completely dies
             | for no reason bug. It's more like the phone is stone dead,
             | but that's how Google describes it. Even though she was
             | well past the 1 year warranty they replaced it free under a
             | special warranty program due to how common it is.
             | 
             | And by replaced it, I mean they sent a different phone that
             | had lots of wear and she lost all her non-cloud data.
        
               | sct202 wrote:
               | The 5A's have some kind of mass motherboard defect and
               | the warranty was quietly increased to 2 years. I know 2
               | people who recently went thru a bunch of hurdles (must go
               | to Asurion/ubreakifix to get special request submitted)
               | and got replacement phones sent outside of the extended
               | warranty, because both the phones failed days after the 2
               | year mark.
        
               | virtualwhys wrote:
               | My 5a's camera routinely crashes the phone and reboots
               | when attempting to take a photo in bright light
               | conditions (e.g. in broad daylight) -- it's infuriating,
               | google says the phone is out of warranty so apparently
               | I'm SOL.
               | 
               | With Asahi Linux I'm now considering going back to all-
               | Apple hardware after 12 years away.
        
           | retinaros wrote:
           | the nexus one was a beautifully engineered phone after that
           | they moved to plastic and everything went down
        
             | vetinari wrote:
             | Galaxy nexus, while plastic, was still very nice phone.
             | 
             | Nexus 5 had already quality issues. Pixels went downhill
             | completely, while simultaneously bumping up the price.
        
               | skavi wrote:
               | The Nexus One was built by HTC. The Galaxy Nexus was
               | built by Samsung. The Nexus 5 was built by LG. Pixel is
               | in house, of course, but IIRC, Google bought a fragment
               | of HTC some time ago.
        
         | thesuitonym wrote:
         | >I'm really glad to see both the partnership with iFixit and
         | the 7 years of support.
         | 
         | Damn, it may be time for me to move back to Android. Do Pixels
         | require the updates to be sent by your carrier, or do they
         | allow direct download?
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | While the downloads do come directly from Google, they work
           | with the carriers, who can delay the updates until they have
           | a chance to look at it and ensure they're happy with it...
           | whatever that means.
           | 
           | IIRC you can download the images from Google via web browser
           | and flash manually, but not sure if you can still do that,
           | and I've never tried it myself.
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | Most of the time you can direct update, but I believe Verizon
           | has a special carve out.
        
           | panarky wrote:
           | Pixels get updates direct from Google, doesn't depend on your
           | carrier.
        
             | fullstop wrote:
             | This isn't entirely true. I have a Pixel 7 Pro and T-Mobile
             | -- updates can be delayed by the carrier.
             | 
             | https://9to5google.com/2023/01/12/google-pixel-t-mobile-
             | upda...
        
               | sphars wrote:
               | Did you purchase your phone from T-Mobile? I'm on
               | T-Mobile but I always buy my Pixels direct from Google.
               | All updates have come direct from Google, no T-Mobile
               | involvement at all.
        
               | fullstop wrote:
               | In this particular case, yes, but the update can still be
               | blocked by the carrier. People have been successful in
               | updating the device by temporarily putting the SIM from
               | another carrier in the phone.
               | 
               | My daughter's Pixel 5a update, for example, was delayed
               | but it was purchased from Google.
               | 
               | To be clear, the update _does_ come directly from Google
               | but the device won't show that the update is available
               | until the carrier gives the green light. The factory
               | image can still be sideloaded.
               | 
               | The P7P is the first phone that I've not purchased
               | outright, and that's because TMO was willing to give me a
               | ridiculously generous offer to trade in a OnePlus 7t.
               | 
               | edit: another link --
               | https://www.androidpolice.com/pixel-t-mobile-update-
               | delayed/
        
               | Alupis wrote:
               | don't buy modern phones direct from carriers, unless the
               | deal is too good to pass up.
               | 
               | unlocked, carrier-agnostic phones are the way to go.
        
               | fullstop wrote:
               | I agree, that's how I ended up buying the P7P through TMO
               | -- it was a ridiculously generous offer.
               | 
               | With the Pixel updates, at least, the updates come
               | through Google but the carrier (at least TMO) can prevent
               | this from happening even if the phone is unrestricted.
        
         | sho_hn wrote:
         | My impression is that the flagships have become fairly
         | interchangeable (aside from perhaps the new Xperia, which still
         | has its own character to some extent) and which one "is the one
         | to buy" is now mostly down when you're in the market to buy.
         | 
         | As in, this one is debuting the new Samsung GN2 cam sensor and
         | I think the SoC manufacturing process node, ahead of whenever
         | Samsung and the others post their new updated devices. So for a
         | few months this is probably the one to get, until a competitor
         | drops the next set of updates from the HW supply chain, and so
         | on.
         | 
         | Three years of updates and iFixit are great and could be
         | differentiating for now, but hopefully the rest of the
         | ecosystem will catch up to that standard.
        
           | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
           | I know GN2 might have been just an arbitrary example, but it
           | looks like GN2 didn't make it to the 8 pro (contrary to the
           | rumors).
        
             | sho_hn wrote:
             | Oh, do you have a source? The pre-release coverage still
             | talked a lot about the GN2 even days ago, and to me it was
             | more or less the defining new HW drop in this phone.
             | 
             | It's a lot less exciting without a sensor upgrade and would
             | be mostly playing catch-up otherwise.
        
               | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
               | Not the strongest sources, but:
               | 
               | https://www.gsmarena.com/newscomm-60107.php - comments
               | tipped me off; then googling for "pixel 8 GN2; last hour"
               | gets me links like
               | https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-8-pro-
               | release-... where the cache has the reference but the
               | current page doesn't.
        
           | WillAdams wrote:
           | Except for stylus support --- Samsung is thankfully
           | continuing with S-Pen support (which also works on the Kindle
           | Scribe and Wacom One and various other devices).
        
         | eitland wrote:
         | It is soon 5 years ago since I switched after using Android
         | since almost since HTC Hero.
         | 
         | Something like this could have kept me on Android for a longer
         | so I am thankful it did not show up until I had left Android
         | behind.
         | 
         | After years of phones that became slow after a few weeks,
         | having a phone that is still fast after 3-4 years is
         | incredible.
        
       | crossroadsguy wrote:
       | Is there an Apple's Elop at Google now? I am asking this in all
       | seriousness. How does this cost for this phone make any sense!
       | 
       | Or maybe Google finally learned it from Apple that all you have
       | do is declared a phone flagship and bump its cost dearly - then
       | enjoy sights of people in long queues.
        
       | initplus wrote:
       | Same region locking nonsense there is every launch on the Google
       | store.
       | 
       | I understand you aren't selling this in my region, but not even
       | letting me look at the product is super frustrating.
        
         | deanc wrote:
         | Yeah. They're absolutely shooting themselves in the foot. Makes
         | no sense to me at all as it's good advertising for their brand
         | and people all around the world are going to be interested.
         | 
         | Here's an archive.is link which has most of the info [1]
         | 
         | [1] https://archive.ph/RuBSk
        
       | gardenhedge wrote:
       | Why does anyone spend 1k on a phone..
        
         | therealmarv wrote:
         | why not? It's for many people the most important daily device
         | they use. (the people here are probably more on their computer)
        
         | lofaszvanitt wrote:
         | Why does anyone spend so much on such a repugnant phone?
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related ongoing thread:
       | 
       |  _Pixel 8 to have seven years of Android updates_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37766122 - Oct 2023 (269
       | comments)
        
       | redbell wrote:
       | 7 years of support is probably the single, most noticeable
       | improvement in the Android ecosystem in years now.
       | 
       | Also, the temperature sensor in the Pro, if it worked as
       | expected, should be a cool addition.
        
         | kkielhofner wrote:
         | Finally.
         | 
         | The planned obsolescence conversation seems to revolve around
         | Apple (the only self-interested greedy company on the planet
         | according to the detractors) but they hold the record for
         | software updates on smartphones - 10 years for the iPhone 5s.
         | Here we are, in 2023, and Google is coming around to seven
         | years of support. Apple has done at least seven since 2013.
         | 
         | In any case I applaud this move and at least five years should
         | be mandated by law. I wonder how many "random manufacturer
         | drops a cheap Android on the market and walks away on software
         | and support" Android devices there are sitting in landfills
         | across the globe. Of course there are plenty of Apple devices
         | as well but it's not due to lack of support.
        
       | sbjs wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | sbjs wrote:
         | These downvotes for a genuine question (-3 points at time of
         | writing) are why I don't participate in HN tbh. And maybe
         | they're exclusively for my parenthetical request for feedback,
         | in which case, still, like, come on guys. Those downvotes are
         | why my posts and comments always shadowbanned in the first
         | place. And they all started with downvotes for genuine
         | questions. The typical response from HN is "I dunno, maybe post
         | better content." But I post the best content I have in both
         | submissions and comments. So yeah, I guess this community is
         | not for me, that's all I can conclude.
        
           | striking wrote:
           | Your posts and comments are not "shadowbanned" (or dead). If
           | they were, we wouldn't be able to reply to you.
           | 
           | Not every post or comment does well. You'll be better off if
           | you don't take it so personally.
        
           | afavour wrote:
           | (I imagine you did get some downvotes for your request for
           | feedback because it's off-topic)
           | 
           | Your request is honestly a little difficult for anyone to
           | answer. "As a long-time Apple user I've long suspected that
           | despite the public specs, Android phones are crap. Can any
           | long-term Android users confirm for me whether their phone is
           | crap?"
           | 
           | If there is a long-term Android user out there who finds
           | Android phones to be crap I'd assume they would have long
           | since switch to a different type of phone.
        
             | VancouverMan wrote:
             | > If there is a long-term Android user out there who finds
             | Android phones to be crap I'd assume they would have long
             | since switch to a different type of phone.
             | 
             | That's a wrong assumption to make. I think there are a lot
             | of reluctant Android users around.
             | 
             | I'm one of them, and I've been using Android phones for
             | well over a decade now.
             | 
             | I don't mind Android itself and the selection of apps, but
             | I've never liked the phones themselves.
             | 
             | The Android phones I've used weren't sensibly sized, or had
             | quality and reliability issues, or were generally tolerable
             | except for one fatal downside (like a bad camera, or
             | limited storage), or were too expensive for what was being
             | offered.
             | 
             | The iPhones I've used have generally been decent, from a
             | hardware perspective. I find the software situation to be
             | terrible, however.
             | 
             | For me, a bad Android phone with tolerable software is at
             | least kind of usable.
             | 
             | A great iPhone phone with
             | unsuitable/insufficient/frustrating software is unusable.
             | 
             | Given that those have been the only viable options for a
             | while now, I resort to using Android phones, even if I've
             | consistently disliked the phones themselves.
        
           | runako wrote:
           | You posted an opinion suggesting that Android isn't the best
           | in a thread about an Android phone. You inadvertently poked
           | an audience self-selected to dislike questions phrased as
           | yours was.
        
           | Kiuhrly1 wrote:
           | My guess is that your question isn't seen as relevant to the
           | post (it's more of a general Android topic) and it has an ad
           | for your failed submission which could be seen as
           | manipulation, which is highly frowned upon on this site.
           | There's a bias against the stereotype of Apple users too.
        
         | shopvaccer wrote:
         | I can't speak for stock android, but I can say AOSP
         | (GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, lineageOS and such) is a much better
         | experience than iOS.
         | 
         | The free software ecosystem is nice cause the mobile apps are
         | way more functional. You can do almost anything you can do on
         | your laptop. Syncthing, K-9 mail, newpipe, firefox (with
         | ublock), orbot, libretorrent, etc. are a few pretty good
         | reasons to use AOSP.
         | 
         | its kind of stylish too. google put out this "material you"
         | thing which basically makes it so the whole OS uses the same
         | color pallete.
         | 
         | The only thing I miss about my iphone was that it was nice and
         | small and could be used in one hand.
         | 
         | Sorry to hear about your shadowban, it's annoying.
        
         | rcarr wrote:
         | I was a long time iPhone user for about 15 years - never had an
         | Android. My iPhone 8 Plus finally reached end of support for OS
         | updates and I'd heard great things about Samsung Dex so I
         | ordered a Samsung Ultra S22 last week and I absolutely love it.
         | Once you get it set up and used to it, I've found the
         | experience to be superior to the iPhone. I just find it quicker
         | to do the things I want to do because of the way it's set up.
         | Things like editing the settings is just way better thought out
         | - the search works really well in the main settings app and if
         | you want to change the settings for a particular app (e.g get
         | rid of the notification badge) you simply have to long press on
         | the app, hit the "i" button on the pop up, and you're taken
         | straight to the settings for the app.). And Samsung Dex is
         | fucking awesome, especially if you've got a pair of AR glasses.
         | My entire computing setup now fits in a small reporter bag. I'm
         | now going to sell my Macbook and use the Ultra as my sole
         | device which means I will have completely exited the Apple
         | ecosystem. In the early smartphone days, I think iOS was
         | superior to Android but I really don't think that's the case
         | anymore.
        
           | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
           | I hope you had a look at Samsung's privacy policy.
           | 
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xtq9pq/samsungs_pr.
           | ..
        
             | rcarr wrote:
             | Yeah, Samsung collects data and sells it. So does every
             | other company. Not going to stop me using the phone. At
             | least Android actually asks me every time if I want to opt
             | into a service or not. If Apple want me back, they can:
             | 
             | - Build a Dex competitor
             | 
             | - Allow apps to communicate outside their sandboxes if I
             | allow them to
             | 
             | - Make it quicker and easier to edit settings
             | 
             | - Stop doing ridiculous things like borking USB-C ports on
             | non-pro models
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | It was the reverse for awhile. The Pixel had an outdated image
         | sensor, but managed to pull off decent photos through software:
         | https://www.theverge.com/21496686/pixel-5-camera-comparison-...
        
         | mmmmmbop wrote:
         | I find that Apple indisputably has better hardware and build
         | quality, but Android has the better operating system.
        
         | Workaccount2 wrote:
         | I don't know who would be telling you that android phones have
         | better hardware specs. And if I did, I would confidently tell
         | you that they don't know what they are talking about.
         | 
         | Signed, a decade+ android user.
         | 
         | However, will end users really notice the gap? Not really.
        
         | hobofan wrote:
         | I own a Pixel 7 Pro (and owned the Pixel 6 Pro), and I
         | regularly have iPhones of friends/family in my hands.
         | 
         | Especially for the flagship Android phones like the Pixel Pros,
         | I really don't think there is a noticable difference. They have
         | excellent build quality, camera quality is so similar to
         | iPhones that I couldn't tell which one is better, and on the
         | software side I think it's a matter of being used to it (where
         | I'm a lot more comfortable on Android).
        
         | nicbou wrote:
         | It's a mix of good and bad. The iPhone is generally very good,
         | and the integration with other Apple products is unmatched.
         | 
         | ...but my Android runs Firefox with uBlock Origin. I forget
         | that cookie banners exist until I use my iPad. It also runs two
         | background apps pretty reliably: a GPS logger and Syncthing. It
         | respects my default web browser and music player choices.
         | 
         | Quality is subjective. For my specific needs, I prefer Android.
         | If those things were solved I would have an iPhone.
        
           | yonibot wrote:
           | Safari for iOS also has adblockers
        
             | goosedragons wrote:
             | That aren't as good as Ublock Origin for Firefox. There's
             | also no AFAIK way to do something like what NoScript does
             | for Firefox.
        
             | throw9away6 wrote:
             | I pay 4$ a year for ad block plus for iOS. Totally worth it
             | and blocks YouTube ads
        
           | AlotOfReading wrote:
           | Same situation. I _have_ both, my work phone is an iPhone. I
           | just don 't like using it. There's nothing major, both
           | operating systems are capable, but there's little reminders
           | everywhere that Apple is the one dictating how the phone can
           | be used. Can't organize home screen icons. Uncontrollable
           | notification spam by the system. Apple's apps mostly don't
           | have individual privacy controls. Apple maps. Limited optical
           | zoom. Having to find and use a special cable.
           | 
           | All of these are minor gripes (and the latter even resolved
           | going forward), but why pay a premium for a device that
           | irritates me?
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | GPS Logger, Syncthing, and a decent/ad-blocking/extensible
           | browser (in my case Kiwi) are exactly the things that make
           | Android my preference.
        
       | baxuz wrote:
       | "Change your region and language"
       | 
       | No, Google. Fix your shit. You're a global 1.70 trillion dollar
       | company, not a local microbrewery.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Yeah it's pretty stupid that this trillion dollar company can't
         | figure out how to sell a phone worldwide. I'm actually gonna
         | have to import this thing if I want to run GrapheneOS.
        
         | kyriakos wrote:
         | A very small part of the world is supported unfortunately and
         | the situation year to year has not been improving. On the other
         | hand samsung and apple are available everywhere.
        
         | vetinari wrote:
         | Even after you change your region and language, it will drop
         | you to the front page.
         | 
         | If you try to click the direct link again, it will redirect you
         | to "Change your region and language".
         | 
         | That's beyond broken.
        
           | archgoon wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | baxuz wrote:
           | It's because it's not available in most countries in the
           | world, including a number of EU countries.
        
         | tpm wrote:
         | Yeah, one of the biggest companies in the world and still not
         | selling the phones in our country. I actually used Pixel phones
         | a few years back, but currently with no working 5G it's not
         | going to happen.
        
       | ireallywantthat wrote:
       | Too expensive for my tastes.
       | 
       | Give me 380USD phone which lasts for next 5-8 years, feels
       | premium, is repairable, camera is decent, replaceable battery, OS
       | is just Vanilla Android with atleast 5 years(more years of
       | Software updates would be welcome) of Software Updates and when
       | you can't provide it, make it hackable enough to install Custom
       | ROMs.
        
         | soperj wrote:
         | I still don't get the "premium feel" line when everyone covers
         | their phone in a case anyway. I don't care if my phone is made
         | of plastic when it actually makes it less prone to breaking
         | when dropped.
        
           | kelnos wrote:
           | I don't know if I've just been excessively lucky, but I've
           | never put a case on any smartphone I've owned since 2010, and
           | I've only cracked the screen on two of them. These days
           | (probably for the past 4 years) I do put the thin-film screen
           | protectors on as well, and replace them if they get damaged.
           | 
           | I've always been of the feeling that I'm buying this lovely,
           | well-designed piece of hardware, why would I want to cover it
           | up in an ugly plastic case?
        
             | matttb wrote:
             | I don't put cases (or even screen protectors) on mine
             | either (since 2015). I've dropped it many times, obviously,
             | but I've only ever had the edges of the phone get the
             | slightest nicks - which I prefer to having a case on it.
        
             | patall wrote:
             | Exactly because you have cracked the screen on two of them.
             | I (and many others with a case) am at 0 cracked screens.
        
               | tredre3 wrote:
               | We can throw anecdotes to each other all day. I've been
               | using smartphones since 2010 as well. Never used a case.
               | Never cracked a screen.
        
           | kiririn wrote:
           | Even worse is when the premium feel is at the expense of
           | usability as well as durability. Matte glass backs and
           | rounded aluminium sides might as well be a bar of soap
        
           | freeAgent wrote:
           | There are also some plastics that feel fine, IMO. It's mostly
           | a matter of whether the phone creaks or bends easily.
        
           | Jcampuzano2 wrote:
           | I've been saying this to people for years. Tons of companies
           | market how a phone feels, its looks/colors but then almost
           | everybody just ends up slapping a case on it.
           | 
           | I literally couldn't care what a phone was made out of/how it
           | feels since I just put a case on it before I even use it for
           | a day in most situations.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Not really true for the Samsung Flip phones out there. I
             | don't know many people who use a case on them.
        
             | justin_oaks wrote:
             | Speaking of cases, the case near the bottom of the page is
             | being sold for $35. That's a lot of money for some molded
             | plastic.
        
             | thesuitonym wrote:
             | Same here. I think it's ridiculous we make phones out of
             | glass, then put more glass on them to protect that glass.
             | Phone screens should be made of plastic, which doesn't
             | break, and then let me put a piece of glass over it to
             | prevent scratching. And then if that breaks, oh well, I
             | don't care because i can replace it for $10.
        
         | TheBigSalad wrote:
         | So you want the same thing but for less than half the price?
        
         | panzagl wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Please don't take HN threads into flamewar hell. We're trying
           | for something else here.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
             | panzagl wrote:
             | Sorry, sounded funnier in my head...
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | rtcoms wrote:
         | Pixel 7a ?
        
         | kras143 wrote:
         | Check this out
         | https://murena.com/america/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena...
        
         | Night_Thastus wrote:
         | That's why I think I'm going with the Samsung A54. It's around
         | that price (if unlocked), but has decent specs. I eventually
         | want to phase out my 4-year-old A50, mainly for android auto
         | reasons. Need to ask online though, there may be better spec'd
         | phones for the price point.
         | 
         | No replaceable battery, sadly, but those don't really exist at
         | this point.
        
           | abdullahkhalids wrote:
           | I am also in the market, and replacing my small/compact Moto
           | G4 after 7-8 years. Sansung A54 seems to be the most
           | appropriate replacement, based on my criteria.
           | 
           | I just looked up the battery replacement procedure, and it is
           | not horrible for something you want to do once after 4 years.
        
         | jassyr wrote:
         | The pixel "a" series match your requirements for the most part.
         | An inexperience phone stripped of unnecessary features.
         | Unfortunately I don't know any phones that are also repairable,
         | replaceable, and hackable.
        
         | manuelabeledo wrote:
         | Sadly, you are part of a minority that rarely gets any
         | attention from mainstream manufacturers.
        
           | sho_hn wrote:
           | Samsung sells their regularly-refreshed A series into
           | something close to this price range, and they're great
           | devices. For some reason they don't get nearly as much
           | attention in the US as they do in Europe and other parts of
           | the world, though.
        
             | Night_Thastus wrote:
             | Yep. My first smartphone was the A50, which has done well
             | up until now. (Though I may upgrade to make android auto
             | stuff a bit faster)
        
         | 12907835202 wrote:
         | No company will ever make a 5-8 year phone at that price.
         | That's $47-76 a year.
         | 
         | People pay that amount or more for apps that help manage their
         | fantasy football team...
         | 
         | Comparitively that would be an insane bargain for a phone and
         | it's absurd for that to be your requirement.
         | 
         | I do wonder what the right price point would be for a
         | subscription model. At the moment the average replacement time
         | is every 2 years which would be the equivalent of $30 a month
         | basic and $40 for pro.
         | 
         | Could they afford $30 a month sub but you got the yearly
         | upgrades rather than every 2 years?
         | 
         | If the price of the parts is quite low compared to the R&D that
         | could be feasible.
         | 
         | But I actually have no idea.
        
           | plorkyeran wrote:
           | The current iPhone SE starts at $430 and will (probably) get
           | at least 5 years of updates. If budget phone makers can't do
           | something cheaper than the iPhone SE then surely their entire
           | business model is just fucked?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | Economies of scale. The SE is basically the hand me downs
             | from the mainline iphone and couldn't exist without it.
             | It's not surprising that no name brands can't compete with
             | the richest company in the world.
        
           | LeifCarrotson wrote:
           | Why would they not make a budget phone? It's not like the BOM
           | + assembly for a touchscreen, first(!) battery, motherboard,
           | and plastic case cost that much. Check out some of the public
           | reports from counterpointresearch.com: the profit margin on
           | flagships is often double the BOM cost, the profit margin on
           | budget phones is a little tighter but still not bad. Who
           | cares what the revenue is per year? What matters is how much
           | it costs to make the thing. Most vendors are just tweaking
           | reference designs anyways.
           | 
           | The Moto G Play is just $170 list, currently going for ~$110.
           | It has a rather pathetic 3 years support, but that's $4.72
           | per month at list, or ~$3.95 at current list rates - assuming
           | you throw it away when the support contract ends. The Samsung
           | A14 5g is $200, and gets 4 years' support, which is $4.15/mo,
           | again, assuming list price and discarding when security
           | updates are over.
           | 
           | I'm currently typing from my Moto G6, which came out in April
           | 2018. I bought in July of that year for $100 (it was a BOGO
           | with a buddy's $400 Moto One Zoom, they were literally giving
           | them away as a backup to promote their more expensive phone
           | because the BOM cost was so cheap). I plug it in on my desk
           | at work because the battery sucks now, but that's no great
           | hardship. By that math, I've enjoyed the use of a smartphone
           | for $1.62 per month (would be $3.25 at list). Yes, it's only
           | running Android 9 and not getting "security updates" anymore,
           | but I have my phone app, messaging app, a camera, and
           | Firefox, and that's about all I need.
           | 
           | I think it would be ridiculous to spend $30 or $40 A MONTH
           | for a smartphone. It doesn't matter what some people pay for
           | a fantasy football team app, that has nothing to do with
           | buying hardware. Other people are buying 3000 lbs used cars
           | for the same price others are paying for a flagship 200g slab
           | of glass!
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | One of the OP's requirements was a vanilla Android. Vendor
             | Android versions aren't features, they're profit centers.
             | 
             | I know the Samsung phones come with a fair bit of crapware,
             | cuz I used to have one. How's the Moto?
        
               | abdullahkhalids wrote:
               | I have the Moto G4, which is on its last legs after 8
               | years.
               | 
               | It barely had any non-android, non-Google apps. If there
               | were any, I uninstalled them all except one from the Apps
               | list without having to root my phone or anything. The
               | last one is called Moto, which is disabled (can't be
               | uninstalled).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | A Pixel 6 Pro meets all these criteria except for replaceable
         | battery.
        
           | jfengel wrote:
           | The battery is replaceable, just not by the user (at least
           | not easily). I've had my Pixel battery replaced; the cost
           | didn't seem exorbitant.
           | 
           | It would be nice to be able to pop batteries in and out on
           | the fly, but I suspect that would make it a lot harder to
           | waterproof. I've lost more phones to water damage than I have
           | to battery death.
        
             | imiric wrote:
             | The Samsung Galaxy S5 from 2014 had a removable battery,
             | headphone jack, a microSD card slot, and was IP67
             | dust/water resistant. We lost removable batteries because
             | it was an easy way to make devices obsolete.
             | 
             | IMO smartphones peaked around that era, and we've only seen
             | incremental improvements and enshittification ever since. I
             | used to be excited about every new device, but these days
             | all manufacturers are grasping at straws trying to
             | differentiate their rectangular slabs from the competition.
             | AI is the latest gimmick in this trend.
        
       | garba_dlm wrote:
       | I will never get used to this geo-determined internet (i cannot
       | see the phone's page without a vpn)
       | 
       | is like we developed this new amazing inter-connection network.
       | and then due to politics, decided it was much too good... far too
       | much freedom without national barriers, so we've gone on to
       | reintroduce these barriers.
       | 
       | as if the internet was restricted by the same geographical
       | (physical) realities that we commonly encounter.
       | 
       | but nothing will ever be as dumb as the re-introducing material
       | scarcity (DRM schemes) back into the 'cyberspace' just so a few
       | can keep making money out of what they already did; possibly for
       | several generations of descendants
        
       | joduplessis wrote:
       | Oooooh wow, that strip - no thanks. First impressions of the
       | aesthetic: clouds & bubblegum.
        
         | ForkMeOnTinder wrote:
         | That strip is part of the deal if you're buying a pixel.
         | 
         | https://www.gsmarena.com/google_pixel_6-pictures-11037.php
         | 
         | https://www.gsmarena.com/google_pixel_7-pictures-11903.php
         | 
         | https://www.gsmarena.com/google_pixel_8-pictures-12546.php
        
           | joduplessis wrote:
           | Wow, I have not noticed that before!
        
         | panarky wrote:
         | The price you pay for better camera sensor and lenses.
        
           | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
           | I don't think that necessarily true - Samsung has hidden the
           | cameras inside the body, and I'd argue that there's nothing
           | terribly special about the pixel camera hardware compared to,
           | say, the S23 Ultra.
           | 
           | That being said, I like the look for the visor.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Largely invisible once it's in a case
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | I don't put my phone in a case and don't understand why
           | people do. Dropping your phone is a rare event, not a serious
           | risk.
        
             | devit wrote:
             | In my experience most of the flagship phones are slippery
             | enough that it's not a rare event to drop them if you don't
             | use a case made out of a higher friction material.
             | 
             | Of course that's an incredibly dumb design, but
             | unfortunately they are made like that.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | I guess I can't relate. I've had a Pixel (the first one)
               | and I didn't feel like it was slippery or anything. It's
               | been a while but I think the reason I had to replace it
               | wasn't damage, but because it wouldn't hold a charge any
               | more. Otherwise I'd still probably have it, I really
               | liked that phone.
        
         | crossroadsguy wrote:
         | Is that some kind of subtly resurgent brutalist design?
        
         | gpm wrote:
         | I actually really like the strip on my pixel. Being able to
         | support the phone by the bottom of the strip instead of
         | squeezing it feels good.
        
       | deergomoo wrote:
       | Comparing this to the regular Pixel 8 it doesn't look like you
       | get an awful lot more for your extra PS300, I'm surprised there's
       | such a delta.
       | 
       | Bigger screen (which for many is a minus not a plus), an extra
       | 4GB RAM (still seems absurd to me that we need this much RAM on a
       | phone) and more capable/additional auxiliary cameras.
       | 
       | I suppose the charitable take is that PS700 feels like a pretty
       | good deal for the non-Pro one.
        
         | 01100011 wrote:
         | I'd love the telephoto camera for outdoor shots, but I can't
         | stand the price or the size of the phone. Even with the Google
         | Fi discount of $300, the price($500 with trade-in) is too much
         | to justify.
         | 
         | I guess I'll stick with my Pixel 5A.
        
           | havblue wrote:
           | You do get the watch for free with a preorder so you get an
           | extra tiny screen to go with your new gigantic screen.
        
           | buttersbrian wrote:
           | Check out best-buy. They are offering $100 more on lots of
           | pixel trade-ins than the google or fi store.
        
           | theunixbeard wrote:
           | Be warned: The Pixel 5A has a manufacturer defect where they
           | just die out of nowhere:
           | 
           | https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/11833075?hl=en
           | 
           | This just happened to me after 1.5 years of usage of my Pixel
           | 5A.
           | 
           | Luckily Google extended the usual 1-year warranty to be
           | 2-years to give free replacements (which I took advantage of
           | and in fact was given a free upgrade to a 6A)... But be
           | prepared for your phone to die out of nowhere.
        
       | cdchn wrote:
       | I'm surprised Google isn't leaning more into their main advantage
       | over Apple: AI. If it weren't for Call Screening and Wait-for-Me
       | I'd have probably already switched over by now.
        
       | cobertos wrote:
       | I'm still on the Pixel 3! I can't get off. I bounced off the
       | Pixel 6. It's too big in my hand. The finger print sensor is in a
       | weird spot. Android 13 is more restrictive. And worst? It's not
       | faster or better. It's legitimately a hard _downgrade_ for me.
       | 
       | I have 2 Pixel 3s now (microphone died and battery swelled) but
       | they run everything snappy! I might just keep buying Pixel 3s off
       | eBay, its so much cheaper. My main worry is lack of security
       | updates, especially with the webp vulnerability.
        
         | matttb wrote:
         | My wife and I are on the pixel 3 still as well. I hate the size
         | of the 8, but that camera sure looks real nice...
         | 
         | Her pixel 3 is also starting to shutdown randomly which is
         | concerning since our last phones were the bootlooping nexus 5x.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | I won't be moving off of the Pixel 5a until the hardware
         | breaks. Fingerprint sensor on the back and the camera notch all
         | the way to the left are so good. With the case on the phone, my
         | finger naturally lands on the sensor when I pick it up and it
         | unlocks lightning fast. I don't understand why we can't have
         | fingerprint sensors on the back anymore :-(
        
         | chromakode wrote:
         | Have you looked at the Zenphone 10? That appears to be the true
         | Pixel 3 successor.
        
         | huehehue wrote:
         | The on-screen fingerprint sensor on newer models is
         | infuriating. Unlocking the screen is always a two-action
         | operation of "tap the screen -> wait for it to fade in / wake
         | up -> put your finger on the sensor".
         | 
         | The first tap to waken the screen often fails so I have to try
         | one or two more times.
         | 
         | It's a small thing but, I have to tumble with it probably 100+
         | times a day given how often I check my phone for e.g. Slack. It
         | should be the smoothest part of operation, imo.
        
       | timmit wrote:
       | For the people who cannot visit the url above, try this,
       | https://blog.google/products/pixel/google-pixel-8-pro/
        
       | lofaszvanitt wrote:
       | I've been pondering about changing to this phone, but it's so
       | ugly, I mean literally so ugly, that it always gives me the
       | jives. It's the worst looking phone on the market, period. A
       | hideous monstrosity, that noone considers buying. Maybe Chucky
       | with the knife and this phone can be paired somehow, but I have
       | serious doubts.
       | 
       | Just go to ASUS' industrial designer, who dreamed up the Zenfone
       | 10 design, hand him lots of black briefcases with blood diamonds
       | and greenbacks, plus strawberry cakes and beg him to come up with
       | something.
       | 
       | And the colors... this is really the socks+sandals of the phone
       | market.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | It's not the best looking phone but that's ridiculous. It looks
         | fine.
        
           | lofaszvanitt wrote:
           | No, a nightmare. That camera "bridge" is just horrible.
        
             | timbit42 wrote:
             | It's better than Apple's notch.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | karencarits wrote:
       | I hope they will improve the photo post-processing. Currently, I
       | have the pixel 7 pro, and the camera app really alters people
       | more than I like. Fortunately, you can also save RAW files. The
       | rumors on Reddit said that the processing algorithm may have been
       | developed for cameras with lower resolutions - if that's true,
       | the results on pixel 8 will be even worse
        
         | simonsarris wrote:
         | The skin waxing (probably aggressive noise reduction) on the
         | Pixel 7 Pro is so bad it's changed how I take photos. I no
         | longer try to get faces in my photos unless the light is very
         | bright and they're close and near the center of the frame (the
         | very bad barrel distortion is another problem with faces, they
         | cannot be too close to the edges or they'll be comically
         | elongated)
         | 
         | The Pixel 2 XL camera was better, I swear
        
         | OneLeggedCat wrote:
         | The camera (actually cameras) on my Pixel 7 Pro is the most
         | over-hyped mediocrity ever. I can't believe that it reviewed so
         | well. The jpeg processing is so over-done that everything looks
         | like cartoons and plastic. The video drops dozens of frames
         | when zooming in and out. The raws are not real raws, but are
         | instead just less processed pseudo-raws, and yet still have
         | terrible dynamic range anyway.
         | 
         | I do like the colors of the jpegs.
        
       | kylecazar wrote:
       | It's odd to me that my Pixel 7 Pro is worth less in trade-in
       | value than iPhone 11.
       | 
       | I'm sure there are reasons, but it stings a little.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | Getting access to the Apple ecosystem has inherent value that
         | comes on top of the phones themselves.
         | 
         | Green bubbles can be worth a few hundred dollars. Or why some
         | people keep a busted iPhone around just to manage the parental
         | controls. Android doesn't have much of those restrictions or it
         | applies less.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | I was surprised to see my Pixel 4 is worth $250 for trade-in.
         | 
         | I've never actually traded in any of my old phones, on the fear
         | that the new one might break at some point and I'd need a
         | backup. Granted I've only once had to take advantage of this in
         | the 13 years I've had smartphones.
         | 
         | I didn't click all the way through, but I'm hoping you don't
         | have to turn in the old phone immediately... I'd like to hang
         | onto it for at least a couple weeks just in case I find the
         | backup/restore process hasn't completely done its job.
        
           | nerdwaller wrote:
           | > I didn't click all the way through, but I'm hoping you
           | don't have to turn in the old phone immediately... I'd like
           | to hang onto it for at least a couple weeks just in case I
           | find the backup/restore process hasn't completely done its
           | job.
           | 
           | Last I remember looking the timeline is within 30 days of
           | receiving the new device.
        
         | KoftaBob wrote:
         | that's probably to incentivize iphone users to switch over
        
         | wffurr wrote:
         | Aftermarket prices for Android devices are lower than iOS
         | across the board. They depreciate faster.
        
       | grepLeigh wrote:
       | This is a meta comment, but I think it's extraordinary that we're
       | only 15ish years from the first smartphone release and we've
       | already reached the "boring" incremental improvement phase for
       | these tiny pocket supercomputers.
       | 
       | Consider how long it took PCs to reach the same stage (with a
       | fraction of the adoption). It was like 20 years from Kenbak-1 to
       | the 90s PC era.
        
         | TheBigSalad wrote:
         | We're coming up on 20, but I get it.
        
         | mrinterweb wrote:
         | I hear what you're saying, but I feel this release is less
         | boring than other recent smart phones. It seems that they are
         | really at an inflection point where they are able to start
         | really utilizing their AI chips for deeper integration. From a
         | hardware perspective, I agree this release might be boring. I
         | don't think the Tensor3 is a far faster chip than the Tensor2
         | (for general purpose CPU tasks), but the AI processing capacity
         | of this chip seem like the focus of this model. The new display
         | seems pretty great, but I have been pleased with my Pixel 7
         | display.
        
         | grecy wrote:
         | > _It 's extraordinary that we're only 15ish years from the
         | first smartphone release and we've already reached the "boring"
         | incremental improvement phase for these tiny pocket
         | supercomputers._
         | 
         | I think people are not yet ready to accept the exact same thing
         | is about to happen to cars. Some company will have a perfectly
         | usable electric self-driving vehicle and will produce tens of
         | millions of them a year. They will be an appliance, like your
         | toaster, and nobody will care anymore.
         | 
         | I'm sure it will happen to other things in our lives too.
        
           | rurp wrote:
           | We're quite a ways off from full self driving cars and it's
           | not clear that we'll ever get there. By that I mean you can
           | drive anywhere you want while taking a nap. Car companies
           | will still be working on improving limited self driving /
           | enhanced cruise control for the foreseeable future which
           | leaves plenty of room for differentiation.
        
           | afavour wrote:
           | People have been saying self driving cars are just around the
           | corner for a decade or so now.
           | 
           | I do believe the future you outline will happen but IMO the
           | timeline is very far from clear. Significant challenges
           | remain for self driving cars.
        
         | Moldoteck wrote:
         | Waiting when button phones will become the trend again
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | Since buying a larger-screen e-ink device, I have been
           | wanting to go back to a dumb phone. But just a few features
           | preclude this.
           | 
           | 1. Dialing in the dumb phone. No dumb phones support CardDav
           | syncing.
           | 
           | 2. Very few dumb phones can function as wifi hotspots for the
           | e-ink device.
           | 
           | 3. Few dumb phones can record calls.
           | 
           | 4. I forget what eight was for... seriously I had one or two
           | other issues but I don't remember what they were.
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | Current LLMs and misc. deep learning enable an early kind of
         | ubiquitous personalized AI augmentation that's always with you.
         | 
         | One barrier to innovation here is that most of tech has shifted
         | to think of empowering users as _not_ the goal, but rather,
         | empowering users is an occasional necessary step towards the
         | company exploiting those users harder.
         | 
         | We could use better thinking.
        
         | kcb wrote:
         | Windows Mobile and Palm phones were around int the early 2000s.
         | I think they would absolutely need to be included if
         | considering the history of smartphones.
        
           | afavour wrote:
           | Don't forget Symbian! I had a NES emulator on my Nokia phone
           | back in the day. Wonderful stuff.
        
         | antod wrote:
         | I really don't think the iPhone (or even Android) was the
         | equivalent of the Kenbak-1 in terms of smartphones. There were
         | "smartphones" before the iPhone.
         | 
         | IMO the iPhone was the 90s PC era where these things got a lot
         | better and more ubiquitous and less fragmented.
         | 
         | And (also in my opinion) coincidentally 90s led into an the era
         | where overly dominant OS vendor(s) were crushing the fun and
         | freedom out of computing. Phones are harder to escape from that
         | than with PCs though.
        
           | kxrm wrote:
           | Yep, I too remember Windows CE 5 on my Audiovox slide out
           | keyboard phone which in 2006 was blowing people's minds. I
           | got it purely so while on-call I wouldn't have to head home
           | to handle incidents.
           | 
           | It was a great mobile computing experience but terrible at
           | being a phone.
        
         | ActorNightly wrote:
         | I remember getting the original Motorolla droid back in 2010.
         | Half of my friends had iPhones. Other half were still on
         | regular phones.
         | 
         | By 2014, everyone had a smartphone.
        
       | nicbou wrote:
       | 6.7 inch screen. My Pixel 5 is already big. This one is an inch
       | bigger in my hand and in my pockets.
       | 
       | Price increase. 875EUR in Europe. The Pixel 5 was 630EUR. Do you
       | really get 40% more phone?
        
         | KeplerBoy wrote:
         | It's 1100EUR in the Austrian Google Store.
        
           | xelxel wrote:
           | Same here in Italy. Crazy price, almost 350EUR more than the
           | Pixel 6 Pro. I really wanted to upgrade, but no Pixel at this
           | Price. I'll wait for a sure street price in less than 6
           | months
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | Maybe I have abnormally large hands & pockets but the Pixel 6
         | Pro w/case size is really good. I am always annoyed when I have
         | to use someone's phone and their tiny screen.
        
         | ForkMeOnTinder wrote:
         | Interestingly the non-Pro pixels have been trending in the
         | right direction for size.
         | 
         | The Pixel 6 is 6.4"
         | 
         | The Pixel 7 is 6.3"
         | 
         | The Pixel 8 is 6.2"
         | 
         | If the trend continues we only have to wait 3 more years for a
         | < 6" phone
        
           | nilespotter wrote:
           | I switched from Pixel 6 to Pixel 7a because the 7a size is
           | _perfect_
        
           | seanalltogether wrote:
           | They are close to being back to original size of the pixel 3
           | which in my opinion was the perfect size.
           | 
           | Pixel 8 - 150.5 x 70.8 x 8.9 mm
           | 
           | Pixel 6 - 158.6 x 74.8 x 8.9 mm
           | 
           | Pixel 3 - 145.6 x 68.2 x 7.9 mm
        
             | morsch wrote:
             | It's also very close to the size the smaller (non-plus etc)
             | Samsung flagship phones have head for years:
             | 
             | S10: 149.9 x 70.4 x 7.8 mm
             | 
             | S20: 151.7 x 69.1 x 7.9 mm
             | 
             | S21: 151.7 x 71.2 x 7.9 mm
             | 
             | S22: 146 x 70.6 x 7.6 mm
        
             | zem wrote:
             | yes, i'm still clinging to my pixel 3, which is indeed
             | perfect
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | I remember when such phones were in a different size category
           | named "phablets".
        
             | abdusco wrote:
             | They had huge bezels. I feel like current phones with huge
             | displays are at most as big as then-phablets or even
             | smaller.
        
               | hbn wrote:
               | Our thumbs haven't grown in the past decade and they now
               | are expected to stretch longer distances. I can't even
               | reach the opposite top corner with my thumb on my iPhone
               | 13 mini
        
               | cdchn wrote:
               | Stop me if you're head this one before but I'm going to
               | tune you into a neat trick.
               | 
               | Use your other hand.
        
               | bigstrat2003 wrote:
               | Yeah, no shit. I don't think that there's anyone who
               | can't figure that out. The problem isn't "I can't figure
               | out how to use my phone", it's that always having to use
               | the phone with two hands is annoying as hell. Phones
               | shine when you can use them one handed. They suck when
               | you have to regularly use them two handed because they
               | are so big.
        
               | plorkyeran wrote:
               | The original galaxy note was 147 x 83 x 9.7: slightly
               | wider and thicker than the pixel 8, but not quite as
               | tall. Overall very similar in size, but with a 5.3"
               | screen rather than 6.2".
        
             | kcb wrote:
             | The aspect ratio makes a huge difference. Back then phones
             | were still mostly 16:9. My Nexus 6 still feels massive
             | compared to modern phones.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | hiatus wrote:
         | I am also in the Pixel 5 group and have been struggling to find
         | a replacement as our phone nears its end of security updates.
         | Does anyone have any suggestions for a potential replacement?
         | There seem to be few phones in this size and weight class.
        
           | bobviolier wrote:
           | When do the security releases stop? I was assuming for
           | another year as I am currently downloading Android 14.
           | 
           | I was going to wait for Pixel 9 (currently also on Pixel 5).
        
           | Moldoteck wrote:
           | Iphone 13 mini))) Or galaxy s23 should be abt the same as p5
        
           | karolist wrote:
           | I've had all Pixel phones up to and including the 6 Pro,
           | finally gave up due to various issues and am super happy with
           | 13 mini + watch ultra combo. I don't depend on my phone that
           | much anymore and mini model size is perfect for pockets and
           | one-hand use, the build quality and CPU/speed is amazing,
           | battery life is decent too, screen on time it's not
           | impressive but really efficient just streaming BT audiobooks
           | all night. Miss 120Hz screen and zoom camera so I'm going
           | with a Pro phone next, but not yet.
        
         | bitshiftfaced wrote:
         | Pixel 5 was 782EUR, euro-adjusted inflation, so it's a question
         | of whether it's 12% more phone.
         | 
         | Edit: is that price for pixel 8 pro? A Google search is saying
         | regular pixel 8 is 799EUR, so basically the same price for the
         | base model.
        
           | buttersbrian wrote:
           | do they offer the watch as a free rider where you are?
           | 
           | Because ... that's worth 12% and then some.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | j10u wrote:
         | Agreed, I moved away from Pixels because of size... I'm hoping
         | for a Pixel Mini someday
        
           | dabluecaboose wrote:
           | I'd heard rumors about a Pixel Mini in 2023. Was holding out
           | hope for a surprise drop at the Pixel event today, but with
           | how leaky Google hardware development is, I should have known
           | better.
        
           | coldpie wrote:
           | I moved away from Android entirely because of size. Currently
           | on an iPhone 13 Mini, which is riiight at the very upper edge
           | of a reasonable size. I would love to go back to Android if
           | only someone reputable would make a reasonably-sized phone.
        
             | crossroadsguy wrote:
             | This was the exact reason. I never even considered iPhone.
             | I thought it's ridiculous to pay that crazy price. Then one
             | day I saw the first SE and it was at a decent price on
             | deal. Fell in love with tue size. But now that size of
             | phone is nowhere to be found essentially. I finally bought
             | 14 few months ago and next time I have to change I'll move
             | back to some cheap Android phone. Screw tracking. If at
             | this crazy price I have to buy a locked down brick I'd
             | rather replace that with something much cheaper.
        
             | Tade0 wrote:
             | My SO is holding on to a first-gen iPhone SE for the exact
             | same reason - I don't know what kind of hands manufacturers
             | expect people to have, but at this point I'm all but
             | certain that modern flagships are too large for most of the
             | population.
        
               | crossroadsguy wrote:
               | If only 13 Mini battery wasn't shit. I don't need the
               | 1000 mega pixel camera or M20 Apple cheap. Just give me a
               | good battery and a non-crazy sized phone and I am good.
               | And yeah take my money.
        
               | torton wrote:
               | I have a 13 Mini. The battery is typically at 30-50% in
               | the evening. Generally never have to worry about the
               | charge during the day. Perhaps it's time to replace the
               | battery if it's at 80% of health or below?
               | 
               | If I travel and have to use GPS most of the day / take
               | hundreds of photos, I carry a small 5000 mAh battery to
               | charge up on the go. I think it's a reasonable
               | accommodation for a phone that's perfectly fine day-to-
               | day.
        
             | jdhawk wrote:
             | loved the size of the mini but the battery life was awful
             | after a year or so of deg.
        
             | grumpwagon wrote:
             | Asus Zenphone 10 is a bit bigger than the 13 mini, but is
             | reasonably small and otherwise well regarded
        
               | crossroadsguy wrote:
               | They didn't release that and 9 in many geographies.
        
               | wilsonnb3 wrote:
               | Despite it having a reputation for being a small phone,
               | the Zenfone 10 is essentially the same size as the Galaxy
               | S23 and iPhone 15 - in other words, "normal" size and
               | quite a bit larger than the iPhone minis.
        
               | akvadrako wrote:
               | It's a lot smaller than the Pixel though, which is what
               | this thread is about.
        
               | coldpie wrote:
               | I can't go any bigger than the 13 Mini. It's right on the
               | edge of too big. I'd prefer smaller.
        
         | nisegami wrote:
         | For context:
         | 
         | Pixel 5 has a 19.5:9 aspect ratio and 85.9% screen-to-body
         | ratio Pixel 8 Pro has a 20:9 ratio and 87.4% screen-to-body
         | ratio
         | 
         | So the difference is ever so slightly less impactful than it
         | sounds, but it's still a much bigger phone.
        
         | xtirpation wrote:
         | Are those numbers normalized against inflation?
        
           | patrickmcnamara wrote:
           | Those numbers are inflation.
        
         | mcsniff wrote:
         | Been holding on to my Pixel 5 with GrapheneOS for a while
         | hoping a smaller Pixel is available.
         | 
         | I might consider the non-Pro since it now has a 120Hz screen
         | and is smaller.
        
       | biggytalls wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | synergy20 wrote:
       | still using pixel3, except they stopped upgrading the software a
       | while ago, still it's usable though some apps refuse to be
       | upgraded, sigh
        
       | nimos wrote:
       | TBH the most interesting feature to me is screen brightness. I
       | have a pixel 6 and it's not TERRIBLE in bright sunlight but it
       | is... not great. Not sure that quite gets me interested in
       | upgrading though. Cameras seem better I guess - have to wait on
       | reviews for that.
        
         | buggeryorkshire wrote:
         | I have a P6P and the general brightness is awful. My old P5 is
         | brighter, which I still own.
         | 
         | The Android 14 I just installed on the P6P massively improved
         | the dark light performance of the camera though. Not tried it
         | on the P5
         | 
         | That said it's not worth me upgrading - I'll wait til the P9P.
        
         | lanius wrote:
         | Do you have adaptive brightness enabled? For the longest time I
         | did not realize that the screen doesn't achieve max brightness
         | despite the brightness slider manually set to the max unless
         | it's enabled.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | I pretty much just go from security update to security update.
         | My 6 is working fine right now and I have no reason to abandon
         | ship for the 8.
         | 
         | My wife, on the other hand, has a 5 which falls out of support
         | this month. So, she's getting the 8.
        
       | mattanimation wrote:
       | I'm still running a Pixel 2...
        
         | slashtab wrote:
         | It's your choice but it's not safe.
        
           | cobertos wrote:
           | Is there any way to make it safe? I've bought newer pixels
           | and they are a downgrade all around for me. I just want
           | security updates and the ability to browse on-device files/do
           | file management (newer Androids keep restricting further and
           | further)
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | Possibly https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/walleye/
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | Still only available in 26 countries. Joke.
        
       | lnxg33k1 wrote:
       | It's awesome to me when they do these kind of pages and then
       | there are 28 footnotes, can you even trust any claim on the page,
       | would you even bother reading them at a certain point
        
       | cantSpellSober wrote:
       | > _Best Take uses [...] an on-device algorithm creates a blended
       | image from a series of photos to get everyone's best look_
       | 
       | Sounds like Photoshop's image stacks, that "process the multiple
       | images to produce a composite view that eliminates unwanted
       | content"
       | 
       | Cool when applied to make a crowded place look empty. Useful,
       | albeit creepy when you apply it to disembodied heads.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Google Plus had this feature in 2013:
         | https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1400574775/hands-on-
         | with-g....
        
       | wunderland wrote:
       | If you're really set on Android, I would buy a year old phone (so
       | probably a "Pixel 7 Pro" if that's a thing? Not sure when Google
       | last changed their naming scheme).
       | 
       | A year old iPhone goes for maybe EUR100-200 less than the new
       | model, but last year's Android phone is now basically half price.
        
       | LostLocalMan wrote:
       | I've been wanting to get off of my s21 ultra because it's
       | extremely bulky and has gotten slow over the years. The killer
       | feature keeping me on it is the 100x zoom for identifying birds
       | and I haven't seen another phone rival it yet. To be clear the
       | 100x zoom is awful quality and not really useful for anything
       | beyond getting basic shapes and colors but for identifying far
       | birds it's awesome.
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | My S10 is still fast..
        
       | zidad wrote:
       | I recently bought a Pixel 7 after my Huawei P30 pro broke.
       | 
       | The older Huawei model is so much better than the newer Pixel
       | that it makes you think why they don't allow them to access the
       | Play store anymore.
        
         | k12sosse wrote:
         | Better how, like, it rubs your feet for you?
        
         | eBombzor wrote:
         | In what way was the Huawei better? Not disagreeing, I myself
         | regretted upgrading to the Pixel 7 from an S10e. Screen,
         | portability, and speaker quality were all downgrades.
         | 
         | And wasn't the whole play store debacle part of some US ban on
         | Huawei? Something outside of Google's control?
        
           | markdoubleyou wrote:
           | I "upgraded" from a Samsung Galaxy S9 to a Pixel 7 this year,
           | only because Samsung stopped doing security updates. Big
           | disappointment for me, too. The fingerprint scanner from that
           | 2018 phone was 10x more reliable than the in-screen thing
           | that the Pixel uses.
           | 
           | I don't miss the battling software ecosystems (Samsung vs
           | Google) on that old phone, though.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | hstaab wrote:
       | It looks just like Frozone from The Incredibles
        
       | Lutzb wrote:
       | The depreciation between Pixels and iPhones is staggering.
       | 
       | Trade-in in Germany on Google Store page:
       | 
       | - Pixel 6 Pro 256gb ($999 on release) - 235EUR
       | 
       | - iPhone 13 Pro 256gb ($1099 on release) - 730EUR
       | 
       | While I am partial to Googles line of phones (had pretty much
       | every Google phone since the nexus one), the loss of value is
       | something I cannot really ignore any more when deciding to buy a
       | phone.
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | Thats why you just wait and get it cheap.
        
           | eptcyka wrote:
           | Older phones don't get significantly cheaper when bought new,
           | used ones are a gamble, and the savings don't go that far
           | anyway when you consider the amount of updates you'll be
           | receiving diminishes.
        
             | jacooper wrote:
             | Pixels are supported for 7 years, starting with the 8. P6+
             | for 5 years Also I'm talking like a couple months later,
             | not a whole year.
        
         | well_actulily wrote:
         | A major confounding variable here is that there's probably a
         | bit more of a motive for Google to get someone to move cross-
         | manufacturer than to incentivize an upgrade from someone who
         | already has a Google phone--depreciation aside.
        
         | graton wrote:
         | In the US it is $400 for the Pixel 6 Pro (256GB) and $550 for
         | the iPhone 13 Pro (256GB) to trade-in for a Pixel 8 Pro
         | (128GB).
         | 
         | I am probably going to trade in an old Pixel 3 (64GB) that I
         | had sitting in a drawer. They will give $200 trade-in for it
         | for a Pixel 8 or Pixel 8 Pro. Only $30 trade-in for the other
         | phones they sell.
        
         | mpalmer wrote:
         | Maybe it's just worth more to Google to convert an iPhone
         | owner? Trade in value is not a very pure measurement of
         | depreciation.
        
           | kkielhofner wrote:
           | A search of completed/sold listings on eBay shows roughly 2x
           | resale pricing for the iPhone 13 Pro 256gb vs the Pixel 6 Pro
           | 256gb.
        
         | gr__or wrote:
         | 500EUR for my iPhone 13 Pro 128gb from Apple's trade-in partner
         | here in Germany.
        
         | libertine wrote:
         | What I don't get are these price tags.
         | 
         | My last flagship phone was a Google Nexus 6P where the base
         | model was $499. Amazing phone, too bad after 3 years it had a
         | battery issue but the manufacturer gave me a new one.
         | 
         | But the thing is: it was $499.
         | 
         | That was the greatest thing about the Nexus lines - good
         | hardware (maybe not the latest SOC) with regular updates and a
         | good OS experience. I miss those phones.
         | 
         | Google with the Pixels went full goofy mode. I'm not paying
         | 1.140EUR for a phone. I have a Huawei P10 that's still running
         | smoothly, just the battery is getting tired... so maybe ill get
         | one of those Pixel 6 Pro :)
         | 
         | But Google pushed away a lot of the Nexus user base, who were
         | hyped every year for the new Nexus.
        
           | fluidcruft wrote:
           | Isn't that the segment the Pixel _a line targets? The 7a is
           | $499...
        
             | libertine wrote:
             | Yes, but the 6P was the flagship.
             | 
             | This was back in the day where a flagship phones base
             | prices were like 600/700EUR.
             | 
             | Now it's double.
             | 
             | In 2018 the Samsung Galaxy 9 was 700EUR. Now a Samsung
             | Galaxy S23 is 1.200EUR.
        
           | maxerickson wrote:
           | I payed $550 for my Pixel 6, ~1 year after the release. Has
           | good hardware, regular updates and a good OS experience.
           | 
           | Comparable to ~$450 a year after the release of the 6P.
           | 
           | I guess the 6P might be relatively higher end?
        
           | pie420 wrote:
           | "That was the greatest thing about the Nexus lines - good
           | hardware"
           | 
           | Yet every nexus phone had major hardware issues. that's not
           | good hardware. It wasn't premium, it wasn't supported long,
           | and it wasn't high quality. I LOVED the nexus line, as a
           | broke college student that prioritized bang for the buck and
           | customization, and speed, and android was getting great new
           | features every year, but things have gotten so bad at google.
        
             | libertine wrote:
             | > Yet every nexus phone had major hardware issues.
             | 
             | I won't argue with that. But I'm right there with you,
             | Nexus phones and android releases were exciting - and you
             | knew with Nexus you'd be the first to get the new stuff.
        
         | partiallypro wrote:
         | My trade in for the 7 Pro was $420 to get the new 8.
        
       | krzyk wrote:
       | I wonder if this time they allow you to take that 50Mpix photos,
       | or are they magically transformed to 12Mpix again.
       | 
       | Pixel 7 Pro also had 50Mpix sensor.
        
         | nsriv wrote:
         | The Pro gives you access to full res RAW images from each
         | sensor which are all 48mp (on the Pro, not sure about regular),
         | not accounting for digital crops, which are 12mp center binned.
         | 
         | As a sidebar, you're all over this thread with negatively
         | framed and inaccurate musings on features, so I'd recommend you
         | give the product page or critical reviews a more serious look
         | rather than letting other people do the work for you by
         | correcting.
        
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       (page generated 2023-10-04 23:00 UTC)