[HN Gopher] Ural Airlines is preparing to fly a stranded Airbus ...
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Ural Airlines is preparing to fly a stranded Airbus A320 out of a
field
Author : stefan_
Score : 79 points
Date : 2023-10-04 19:47 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (simpleflying.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (simpleflying.com)
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| There is currently a scandal around undocumented parts making it
| into American planes [1]. I'm curious to when we'll be able to
| look back at the safety and maintenance records of officially-
| maintained planes and those flying Russian style.
|
| [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/delta-
| say...
| skunkworker wrote:
| Reminds me a little of TACA Flight 110.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACA_Flight_110
| neurotech1 wrote:
| They took off from an adjacent prepared road that used to be a
| runway.
|
| > Following an on-site engine replacement, the jetliner took
| off from Saturn
|
| > Boulevard, a road which had previously been an aircraft
| runway at Michoud.
|
| > The aircraft was subsequently repaired and returned to
| service until it finally
|
| > retired in 2016.
|
| From the linked Wikipedia page, which explains why the takeoff
| wasn't as wild as it first seemed.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The pilot of that flight (well, the landing portion, Boeing
| apparently supplied pilot and copilot for the take-off), Carlos
| Dardano, just retired earlier this year:
|
| <https://www.aviacionline.com/2023/09/mission-accomplished-
| ca...>
| lastofthemojito wrote:
| I wonder who will be the "lucky" pilot who gets to attempt the
| take off? Do they get massive hazard pay? Or will be it
| management's least favorite pilot?
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| Are you kidding? They'll probably all be jockeying for the
| chance to do it.
| leetrout wrote:
| Doubt it will be hard to find someone. There are plenty of test
| pilots and ferry pilots or other special flight circumstance
| pilots that would love to have this on their resume.
| athorax wrote:
| The solution is so obvious! 1. Lift plane up real
| high with helicopters 2. Start up engines 3. Detach
| 4. Either fly home or ride to Valhalla
|
| /s
| forgotusername6 wrote:
| I think at some height that becomes possible, but just going up
| would probably beyond the maximum altitude of most helicopters.
| However if the helicopters were to fly horizontally, the plane
| would develop its own lift and it could engage the engines and
| continue.
| mwint wrote:
| Vso on a transport category aircraft is way faster than a
| helicopter is going to carry it. You'd be better off just
| dropping it at a real airport, if you can lift it anyway.
| chmod775 wrote:
| Using multiple helicopters (OEW of the aircraft is 40 tons,
| so you'll need at least two helicopters) to lift the same
| weight makes you run into physical problems that haven't been
| overcome yet. It's really hard to reach some sort of stable
| equilibrium in such a configuration.
|
| Russians are likely the people who have _the most_ experience
| with that so far, and they opted for other solutions despite
| throwing spaceflight-money at the problem:
|
| https://www.buran-energia.com/documentation/documentation-
| ak...
|
| Maybe with modern technology and computer-controlled flight
| it could be made safe, but getting into that would completely
| defeat the point, which is to find a _cheap_ way to move the
| plane.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > Russians are likely the people who have the most
| experience with that so far
|
| If would be in the need of a good Valhalla track, I would
| volunteer for the airstart of a civilian pax hauler brought
| airbourne by a pack of Mi-26s
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| the issue with dropping an airliner from height is by the
| time it gains enough airspeed, it no longer has control
| authority to pull out. Airliners are not really designed to
| go through a dive like that and come out in one piece.
|
| Glide restarts of engines are possible (if not core locked)
| but it also isn't something done very often.
| gumby wrote:
| Seems like if it fails they are not much worse off than today:
| either way they are short one aircraft. The cost of trying to fly
| it out much be a lot <<< less than the value of the plane.
|
| Good luck to the pilot though -- if it doesn't work the result
| could be fatal!
| oldbbsnickname wrote:
| 4-pronged approach:
|
| A. Lighten the load as they're already doing.
|
| B. Prep the runway surface with steel matting and wait until the
| time of year when the soil is hardest. (January)
|
| C. Field (literally) replace the main gear with double bogie
| assemblies borrowed from Air India.[1] The single bogie gear risk
| collapse or sufficient rolling resistance preventing attainment
| of V1.
|
| D. A rejected takeoff (RTO) contingency plan. Firstly, the runway
| surface should be twice as long as anticipated. Secondly,
| firefighters should be available to extinguish brake fires to
| prevent any wildfire or airframe damage.
|
| References:
|
| 1. https://www.airliners.net/photo/Indian-
| Airlines/Airbus-A320-...
| Stevvo wrote:
| Those gear assemblies were scrapped years ago. I expect they
| will just let some air out of the tires.
| alex_young wrote:
| Looks like the minimum take-off runway length is just around a
| mile: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/94671/what-
| is-t...
|
| A mile of roadway costs ~ $1M to pave:
| https://www.roadbotics.com/2019/12/18/how-much-does-it-cost-...
|
| Unless they pave 1 mile of runway to accommodate this, I
| anticipate this going pretty poorly. A quick search prices A320s
| at around $100M, seems worth the effort.
| buildsjets wrote:
| It's Siberia. When December arrives, the mud will become self-
| paving.
| regnull wrote:
| December? Ha! It's probably self-paving right about now.
| grecy wrote:
| Not yet, there's barely snow on the ground in the Arctic
| Circle right now, not much below freezing overnight.
|
| Give it another month, then we're talking.
| Bluecobra wrote:
| Does Airbus have their own version of Boeing's AOG crew? Either
| way I guess with the sanctions they won't be to help anyways.
|
| sorta related:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37691057
| lukevp wrote:
| This kinda feels like how after an auto accident, if the car
| needs like 15k of body work and the frame is warped, but not
| enough to total loss it... and they try and repair the car, but
| afterwards there's always little things wrong... alignment gets
| slightly off, weird creaks and squeaks you never had before,
| sudden phantom electrical issues. I'm not sure id want to ride in
| a plane where they "cleared out all the mud and straw" from the
| engine and they say it's good to not be refurbished.
| tokai wrote:
| To me it says something about the value of a busted plane, to
| Russian airlines in the face of sanctions. Maybe that's reading
| too much into it and Ural's leadership are just miserly.
| gonzo41 wrote:
| Except it's a plane. And that just freaks me the hell out. That
| third dimension with flying is the scary one
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > 15k
|
| Difference in if that was '99 Corolla or '95 F40
| pipes wrote:
| Could it be flown with remote control?
| ilamont wrote:
| In World War 2 there was a portable/temporary runway technology
| known as Marston Mats consisting of perforated metal plates
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marston_Mat). They are very
| durable - near my grandfather's home there was an emergency
| landing zone made up of these rectangular plates, and they were
| still there 40 years after the war. Is there a modern equivalent
| that could be brought to bear?
| avar wrote:
| They're in a relatively flat field and can rely on the ground
| being frozen solid sometime soon.
|
| If its insufficiently flat wouldn't it make more sense to
| smooth out those parts of the field, rather than "paving" the
| whole field with steel mats?
| jonah wrote:
| There are modern versions. e.g.
|
| https://fauntrackway.co.uk/defence/air/aircraft-landing-mat
|
| https://fauntrackway.com/
| oldbbsnickname wrote:
| That would definitely help. An art shop I use has modern
| versions of them in their gravel lot. They're made for large
| wheels such as those of ground vehicles and possibly aircraft,
| but not so nice for smaller wheels such as for a bicycle or
| scooter.
|
| Incidentally, my grandfather was a radio and cryptographic
| technician who was primarily forward deployed to such
| minimally-prepared, temporary fields while graders were still
| leveling the ground.
| ksherlock wrote:
| One part of PPL training is soft/rough field takeoffs. Usually
| you go through the motions on a paved runway but maybe you're
| flying off a grass runway. Anyhow, use flaps to increase lift,
| apply back pressure to reduce the load on the nose wheel, rotate
| early, and use ground effect to accelerate. Maybe they'll stick
| bigger tires on it or use a JATO rocket to help with the
| acceleration.
| buildsjets wrote:
| There is no JATO option available for the A320. There is,
| however, a "high flotation" landing gear option with 4 wheel
| bogeys, which was only purchased by Air India, instead of 2
| wheel bogeys that the majority of A320s have. However since
| Russia is under embargo, it seems unlikely that they would be
| able to get parts and Airbus support to do this kind of
| modification, and it is probably unneeded if they wait for the
| ground to freeze.
|
| https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/39237/why-do-so...
| nradov wrote:
| I don't think there's any place to attach rockets to an A320.
| Probably they'll just lighten the aircraft as much as possible
| by stripping out all unnecessary equipment, and do some
| construction work on the field to turn it into something
| vaguely resembling a runway.
| jimmcslim wrote:
| Put the airplane on a long treadmill, Mythbusters style?
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| JATO
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(page generated 2023-10-04 23:01 UTC)