[HN Gopher] Atomic Rocket
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       Atomic Rocket
        
       Author : based2
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2023-10-22 20:15 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (projectrho.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (projectrho.com)
        
       | brucethemoose2 wrote:
       | This is a gem of the old internet.
        
         | m4rtink wrote:
         | And its still very active and often updated! :-)
        
         | sillywalk wrote:
         | I was expecting a <BLINK> tag
        
         | themadturk wrote:
         | This site is nearly as bad as TVTropes. I don't go there
         | often...but when I do, it takes me hours, if not days, to get
         | back out.
        
         | MilStdJunkie wrote:
         | Indeed. I'm a gigantic booster of "Atomic Everywhere"[1]
         | myself, so this site has always been pure catnip.
         | 
         | [1] To be clear, I don't favor mass production of something
         | like the SLAM's PLUTO air-cooled reactor, spewing fission
         | fragments and God knows what else. I'm not insane. But nuclear-
         | electric distributed propulsion for aviation? Oh yeah.
        
           | brucethemoose2 wrote:
           | > nuclear ramjet
           | 
           | I dunno what you are talking about, this is a fantastic idea.
           | It will be fiiiine.
        
       | selimnairb wrote:
       | It either completes the entire launch sequence, or none of it.
        
         | genewitch wrote:
         | "this end points toward the ground. If this end is pointing
         | toward space, you won't be going to space today"
        
       | pacificmaelstrm wrote:
       | "no stealth in space"
        
         | j9461701 wrote:
         | That's actually one of my issues with atomic rockets, some of
         | its conclusions are a bit....massaged to ensure the end result
         | it wants in terms of space combat even if it doesn't super make
         | sense. As an example, even as an undergrad in physics the
         | definitiveness of 'no stealth in space' struck me as
         | implausible given what I knew about long range detection
         | mechanisms.
         | 
         | http://toughsf.blogspot.com/2016/10/the-hydrogen-steamer-ste...
         | 
         | Very straight forward solution one person came up with, I'm
         | sure there are dozens of other approaches to achieve the same
         | result. Especially if you put military level budgets into
         | figuring this out.
         | 
         | The most logical form of space combat is, as boring as it
         | sounds, undetectable suicide drones. Space battleships are both
         | super cool sounding and also alas probably utterly impractical.
         | 
         | Edit:
         | 
         | "In terms of military tactics, introducing stealth ships is the
         | equivalent of punching a hornet's nest. The standard fare of
         | bright, bold warships pumping out gigawatts without care,
         | streaking across the Solar System laden with weapons, are
         | forced to become meek and paranoid affairs, as a stealth ship
         | can dump a thousand tons of weapons out of nowhere, at any
         | time."
         | 
         | As an aside, this is something I wish scifi writers understood
         | - don't include stealth ships in your stories without
         | recognizing how they change the mechanics of war completely.
        
       | giantrobot wrote:
       | Atomic Rockets is such a fantastic site. Really good writing plus
       | a great attention to detail. Chung is an Internet treasure.
        
       | cj wrote:
       | I've been binge watching For All Mankind, which takes place in an
       | alternate reality where society kept on pushing further into
       | space after landing on moon.
       | 
       | It really makes me think what could have been if we dedicated
       | more investment towards space travel/research.
        
         | senectus1 wrote:
         | that sounds really interesting. Thanks for the heads up.
        
         | gcanyon wrote:
         | I love that series. As someone barely old enough to have
         | watched the moon landings, those first few minutes of the first
         | episode hit me _way_ harder than I anticipated. I was literally
         | near tears watching  <spoiler>.
        
         | war321 wrote:
         | I had some gripes with the way the timeline developed later on
         | (like why in a world where Saturn Vs and Sea Dragons are
         | getting launched, are space shuttles exactly like our world
         | getting made? And _getting launched to the moon?_ ) but overall
         | I do appreciate the serious take at an alternate history work
         | on mainstream television.
        
           | jessriedel wrote:
           | One of the biggest causes of lack of realism is the audience.
           | People know right away that "shuttle" means "post-Apollo
           | spaceship", and they don't know enough about them to
           | understand why it makes no sense to take it to the moon.
        
             | shiroiuma wrote:
             | I haven't seen this show yet, but I know a little about why
             | the STS was developed and why it was really a bad idea
             | (basically the military wanted the ability to launch _and
             | recover_ spy satellites intact without anyone seeing, and
             | this drove the requirements).
             | 
             | However, if you have a big settlement on the Moon, wouldn't
             | a "space truck" actually make a lot of sense, for carrying
             | large cargo loads both to and from the Moon? What am I
             | missing?
        
               | thedrbrian wrote:
               | >what am I missing?
               | 
               | The wings, wheeled landing gear, all that aerodynamic
               | streamlining,etc. everything that makes it useful to fly
               | in the atmosphere is dead weight on its way to the moon.
               | Best off sending the supplies up in a simple capsule and
               | using something like a space tug to take the capsule to
               | the moon
               | 
               | https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacetug.php
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | Strong disagree. It's not the audience, because the
             | audience watches loads of scifi without such things.
             | 
             | A lot of Apple TV is just weird. I suspect weird people
             | have creative input, EG Apple execs, who shouldn't.
        
         | keyle wrote:
         | It's a great show.
        
         | clarionbell wrote:
         | I don't really like the series. I mean, on one level it's
         | awesome, filling the same niche as Star Trek used to,
         | optimistic sci-fi.
         | 
         | On the other hand, it feels slightly odd that everything in
         | this alt-history just falls nicely into place. Everything is
         | better, society, technology, even little things like king
         | Charles marrying Camilla instead of Diana. It feels like
         | someone doused the reality in sugar.
         | 
         | Which is not bad per se. I had my fill of bleak dystopias. But
         | it is starting to stretch disbelief.
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | If you didn't click the second link on the main portion of the
       | page page, do yourself the favor:
       | 
       | https://archive.org/details/Galaxy_v35n05_1974-05/page/n107/...
       | 
       | "Last Tuesday I got a call from a national magazine ... What he
       | wasn't interested in is a list of science fiction predictions
       | which just aren't going to happen. Except in rare moods, neither
       | am I. ..."
       | 
       | It's that rare HN gold.
        
         | pugworthy wrote:
         | The View From Chaos Manor was such fun to read back when it was
         | in print.
        
         | thombat wrote:
         | How have I never seen this gem before? Belters banished by
         | basic orbital mechanics, already 50 years ago!
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | It got me at Belter civilization apparently being already a
           | well-established sci-fi trope half a decade ago. And here I
           | thought _The Expanse_ was the first to dive deep into this
           | idea. I need to seriously catch up with sci-fi stories from
           | before 1980s.
           | 
           | Also nice that, before completely ruining the idea of the
           | Belters, and apparently also having "science robbing sf
           | writers of Mars and Venus" (presumably in earlier
           | installments of this work?), he proposed a working model for
           | independent civilization settling Jovian moons. I wonder if
           | there's an updated version of the table somewhere, with the
           | numbers reflecting current knowledge of the Jovian area and
           | space propulsion.
        
             | stevenwoo wrote:
             | One thing with the early sci-fi is you will have to pretend
             | you don't know what we now know about the other planets.
             | Asimov (The Martian Way I think got Saturn's rings very
             | wrong) and Heinlein (Mars and Venus are both depicted very
             | wrongly and still a very entertaining story in Double Star)
             | had a few stories and novellas.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | Well-written relatively hard but outdated scifi is, in
               | effect, well-written slightly-softer scifi.
        
             | thombat wrote:
             | Indeed - I hadn't noticed the publication date before
             | encountering the remark about Pioneer's Jovian encounter
             | still being in the future! High time for an update;
             | although many of the additional moons may not be of direct
             | interest to settlers ("By most counts, Jupiter has between
             | 80 and 95 moons, but neither number captures the complexity
             | of the Jovian system of moons, rings and asteroids." -
             | https://science.nasa.gov/jupiter/moons/) but the much
             | richer picture of the larger moons and the surprising
             | radiation environment should either grant the Jovians their
             | empire, or sadly banish them too.
        
         | fuzzy2 wrote:
         | From the linked article:
         | 
         | > The English system of measures will be as dead as the dodo
         | within our lifetimes.
         | 
         | haha oh my
        
         | WJW wrote:
         | That's a fantastic article and it makes a very coherent point
         | about why "Belter civilization" will never make economic sense,
         | but I think it could still work very well as a society of
         | authority-mistrusting homesteaders. Like doomsday preppers but
         | off-planet.
         | 
         | The Orions Arm universe has the Hiders [1], who do not trust
         | the ruling class for one reason or the other and set off in
         | spaceships to hide in the Oort clouds.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45bd1a9eb4a5c
        
       | jimmcslim wrote:
       | Great site, but also kind of depressing as a reminder that thanks
       | to the rocket equation we aren't going anywhere fast...
        
         | m4rtink wrote:
         | No need to worry, the Orion drive and Nuclear Salt Water Rocket
         | are there to save the day! ;-)
        
       | spamtarget wrote:
       | if you like Atomic Rocket, check out Orion's Arm:
       | 
       | https://www.orionsarm.com/
       | 
       | It's about painting future timeline for humanity that goes on for
       | eons
        
         | clarionbell wrote:
         | Muuh: Colonize Titan, refuse to elaborate further, leave.
        
       | pugworthy wrote:
       | Really a classic site - been following Winchell Chung for some
       | time.
        
       | war321 wrote:
       | Definitely an amazing resource for people writing hard scifi.
        
       | jfoutz wrote:
       | Wasn't mars supposed to be the next stop, with a similar
       | approach? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_C-5N with maybe
       | some design choices coming from
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propuls...
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | Hopefully this link works. Half of a NASA chart from 1970
         | showing where we would head:
         | 
         | https://www.therpf.com/forums/attachments/space-flight-evolu...
        
       | Falkon1313 wrote:
       | If you like the Atomic Rocket site, you might also enjoy
       | Rocketpunk Manifesto. Unfortunately it's been silent since 2017,
       | but there are 10 years of thought-provoking posts and comment
       | threads to read.
       | 
       | http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/
        
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       (page generated 2023-10-23 09:00 UTC)