[HN Gopher] US consumer spending dashboard built on data from 50...
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       US consumer spending dashboard built on data from 50M+ cards now on
       Snowflake
        
       Author : izyda
       Score  : 100 points
       Date   : 2023-11-01 18:40 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (app.snowflake.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (app.snowflake.com)
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | with all of the fintech apps that attach to a card, i wonder if
       | they break down spending categories by vice. how many people
       | paying their dealer or other vice related friends with cashapp,
       | venmo, etc, and then bigData making the connection of what the
       | transactions really were?
        
         | izyda wrote:
         | Hey there - founder here. We can indeed break down by payments
         | in these FinTech apps. There are privacy concerns with certain
         | aspects of this, which we of course could not touch. However,
         | measuring the "shadow" economy, of course, serves a legitimate
         | purpose.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | you're not doing yourself any favors with the privacy minded
           | folks that think people analyzing the data they did not
           | provide to you directly for that purpose is something to be
           | removed like cancer. but hey, at least you're honest about
           | the granularity of the unintended data you can discern from
           | the data you've purchased about everyday people.
        
             | izyda wrote:
             | I wasn't quite clear - we don't have access to identifying
             | information in the data (ie. we could measure Venmo but not
             | that John Doe paid $X to Jane Doe at phone number XXX-XXXX)
        
               | nerdponx wrote:
               | If you have individual transactions with unique
               | identifiers, that's basically the same thing.
        
             | terminous wrote:
             | > analyzing the data they did not provide to you directly
             | for that purpose is something to be removed like cancer
             | 
             | For the record, cancer is an appropriate metaphor to
             | describe the data broker industry
        
             | dogman144 wrote:
             | Talking to adtech about their products vs criticizing their
             | products is the most illuminating thing a privacy-minded
             | person could do.
             | 
             | The nonsense "we care about privacy" wrappers go away and
             | they start talking product-speak about the details. I don't
             | think privacy regulations change until adtech product leads
             | get comfortable enough talking publicly about their deadpan
             | views on what they can find out about users.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | There used to be a very funny website called Vicemo that would
         | scrape and display (public by default!) Venmo transactions
         | containing certain keywords/emojis
         | 
         | https://www.thecut.com/2015/02/vicemo-collects-all-your-sket...
        
           | izyda wrote:
           | Yeah interestingly, Venmo makes (or at least used to make)
           | every public transaction available in their API
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Hard to tell if this is interesting without seeing a sample of
       | the data. Though the data originates from "50M+" cards, the
       | summary doesn't make clear how many rows of data this is. Might
       | not be that many rows since it doesn't get any finer than weekly
       | granularity.
        
         | izyda wrote:
         | Hey founder here -
         | 
         | It would be indeed great if Snowflake allowed us to preview the
         | data. That said, if you have a Snowflake account, you can mount
         | it and automatically get a trial (you can run arbitrary queries
         | against it).
         | 
         | The data is aggregated at a weekly level, by category,
         | merchant, and demographics. It is not single individuals' data
         | if that is what you are after.
        
           | RC_ITR wrote:
           | Interesting product - compared to competitors like
           | SecondMeasure, what differentiates your panel/data cleaning
           | approach vs. everyone else (since I assume the data is
           | sourced from the same place as you competitors)?
        
             | izyda wrote:
             | I am a big admirer of what Second Measure built before
             | their acquisition.
             | 
             | - Different data sources - More accurate (though this is of
             | course debateable, our plan is to publish benchmarks,
             | accuracy, transparency, etc.) but this will always be
             | debateable - Focus on data scientists & Snowflake users
             | (rather than a SaaS platform)
             | 
             | Obviously, this is a very early product. The key is to join
             | types of datasets together, while maintaining accuracy (see
             | vision outlined here:
             | https://magis.substack.com/p/datanomics)
        
           | gigatexal wrote:
           | How are you getting this data? Are you paying brokers for it?
        
             | jeron wrote:
             | that's for him to know and you to find out
        
       | supportengineer wrote:
       | Who wrote the sample query? If I was trying to "Compare
       | Chipotle's sales performance to that of McDonald's", my query
       | would not start with "SELECT *". There would be some meaningful
       | columns.
        
         | izyda wrote:
         | Yeah that's fair. The tables are all in an EAV format (narrow),
         | so the number of columns coming along here is very small (you
         | would filter for Chipotle/McDonalds in your WHERE) but it is
         | fair that that sample query could be more instructive / better
         | practice to name columns.
        
       | ththth1 wrote:
       | what's your tech stack to process this data prior to loading to
       | snowflake?
        
         | izyda wrote:
         | We're doing almost everything entirely in Snowflake. Snowflake
         | is our lead investor (https://www.reuters.com/technology/data-
         | startup-cybersyn-rai...) and we've found it extremely helpful
         | to build entirely on their technology.
         | 
         | We're ingesting from S3 or FTPs usually.
        
       | ZeroCool2u wrote:
       | It seems odd that you can't even preview a small cached subset
       | (10 rows?) of a table in Snowflake. I don't even remember a time
       | I couldn't see a table preview in BigQuery, so surely it's not a
       | technical limitation?
        
         | izyda wrote:
         | I definitely agree Snowflake Marketplace should have this..
         | there is no technical limitation.
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | They could have baked it in to the descriptions or code
         | samples.
        
       | AirMax98 wrote:
       | White screen on iOS... render error?
        
         | izyda wrote:
         | Might be a render error on the Snowflake side -- check
         | https://docs.cybersyn.com/our-data-products/consumer/consume...
         | instead
        
       | elyrly wrote:
       | I'm curious how cybersyn sources the data (partnership with data
       | sellers? etc?) quality, reliability, and freshness are some that
       | come to mind. Entry point using snowflake marketplace (series a
       | investor) seems reasonable. We're missing the aha moments for
       | companies when they join cybersyn datasets to their own, that
       | story is hopefully in the works.
        
         | izyda wrote:
         | In general, we're sourcing from a variety of 1st party sources.
         | 
         | But yes, the long term vision is to make this all joinable
         | (https://magis.substack.com/p/datanomics)
        
       | data_ders wrote:
       | what is a "card" in this context? credit card?!
        
         | izyda wrote:
         | Credit and debit cards
        
       | mritchie712 wrote:
       | The docs are more helpful then the link above:
       | 
       | https://docs.cybersyn.com/our-data-products/consumer/consume...
        
       | riku_iki wrote:
       | Does this dashboard cost 2k/m?..
        
         | ricardobayes wrote:
         | For those who can use this data to predict something/use it in
         | a model, I guess it's pocket money. This is some very powerful
         | data in the right hands.
         | 
         | To add to that, 2k/mo is pretty much the "go-to" pricing for
         | most B2B SaaS products.
        
           | izyda wrote:
           | This is correct. Note you are not getting just the dashboard,
           | but you are getting the underlying data itself too -- so you
           | can write arbitrary queries. That said, it is meant for large
           | enterprises that have a clear path to ROI.
        
             | void-star wrote:
             | This begs the question: where is the button I can press to
             | see if my personal data is included and a quick and easy
             | way to inform you to remove it from your service?
        
               | ketzo wrote:
               | No personally identifying information in the dataset, so
               | I imagine you would have to find some way to deanonymize
               | yourself from clues in the data.
        
               | gardenhedge wrote:
               | How is it verified that the data is trustworthy then?
        
         | hipadev23 wrote:
         | $2k/mo for consumer credit card data is absurdly cheap by at
         | least an order of magnitude. So it's either mispriced or it's
         | garbage data.
        
           | izyda wrote:
           | It is aggregated data. You are correct that if someone were
           | selling data on individual cards, it would be a lot more
           | expensive.
        
             | hipadev23 wrote:
             | Aggregated or not, seeing Affinity's panel being sold for
             | peanuts on snowflake was not on my 2023 bingo card.
        
       | beefield wrote:
       | Sorry a small thread hijack. I may be considering returning to my
       | previous employer who has since I left started using Snowflake.
       | Is that unambiguously good or bad? If it can be either, are there
       | some questions I should check? (As a background, I am quite happy
       | writing my queries in SQL)
        
         | cj wrote:
         | "It depends"
         | 
         | There's nothing inherently wrong with Snowflake. But like any
         | database it has a time and place.
        
         | nattaylor wrote:
         | In my experience it excels at the stated use case of OLAP in
         | the cloud with compute separate from storage and claim it's
         | unambiguously good for this.
         | 
         | For OLTP it would be unambiguously bad (although maybe there's
         | hope with Unistore, which I haven't tried.)
         | 
         | Many workloads are a mix and so it can become ambiguous whether
         | it's a great fit / great value / whatever you're defining
         | good/bad-ness by
        
         | mr_toad wrote:
         | As a data warehouse it's great. It's not a complete solution
         | for an analytics platform. Snowpark seems are bolted on and
         | doesn't really benefit from the core engine. It's reporting
         | capabilities are a bit weak. So you'll probably want some
         | external BI tools and/or tools like R and Python if you're
         | heavily into analytics.
        
       | tiahura wrote:
       | Any plans for cheaper plans with less or older data?
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | The "pay upfront" cost is $2,000/month. This is for data that was
       | obtained via a network of shady data brokers. Visa, MC, banking
       | industry can fuck off.
       | 
       | Users likely not reimbursed for their data getting packaged and
       | resold by merchants, payment networks, or credit card issuers
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | This data was already available to purchase long before this,
         | for far more. Acxiom, Epsilon, etc
        
         | dogman144 wrote:
         | Getting downvoted for a true statement.
         | 
         | Reading up on programmatic advertising from a perspective of
         | learning it vs resources that critique it is illuminating.
         | 
         | You're describing how it works. Use cash and buy offline with
         | your cellphone left at home (yes, all 3), or get your data sold
         | for other people's products.
         | 
         | I used to be more vocal about privacy but reviewing the innards
         | of the tech make me think this dynamic will never change. Too
         | much money and too well built.
        
       | TradingPlaces wrote:
       | Reeks of selection bias.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-01 23:00 UTC)