[HN Gopher] Propaganda or Science: Open-Source AI and Bioterrori...
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       Propaganda or Science: Open-Source AI and Bioterrorism Risk
        
       Author : 1a3orn
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2023-11-02 18:27 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (1a3orn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (1a3orn.com)
        
       | artninja1988 wrote:
       | An extremely impressive takedown of biorisk papers
        
         | ethanbond wrote:
         | Idk, writing off e.g. anthrax risk because the 2001 attacks
         | only killed 5 people is pretty silly. There's good reason to
         | believe those attacks weren't really _intended_ to kill people,
         | and they certainly weren 't intended to kill a large number of
         | people.
         | 
         | This fact also casts some doubt of relevance on the Montague
         | paper as well, which says that a bio agent's ability to spread
         | is so incredibly important. Yes, the ability to spread does
         | amplify the risk _enormously_ for obvious reasons, but there
         | are plenty of non-spreading agents that you can do huge, huge
         | amounts of damage with, including anthrax when used
         | "appropriately."
        
           | j45 wrote:
           | A slippery slope is anythings dangerous that anyone wants to
           | be dangerous and can fall into a larger and larger nebulus of
           | safety for the many and control for the few, which is a
           | different kind of danger.
           | 
           | It will be interesting to see where this attempts to contain
           | the interpretations of fear from the interpretations of
           | fearmongering (or not) leads to.
           | 
           | Maybe AGI gets disagrees with all the manipulators and
           | becomes for the masses.
        
       | slowmovintarget wrote:
       | Quoting the article's own tl;dr:
       | 
       | > I examined all the biorisk-relevant citations from a policy
       | paper arguing that we should ban powerful open source LLMs.
       | 
       | > None of them provide good evidence for the paper's conclusion.
       | The best of the set is evidence from statements from Anthropic --
       | which rest upon data that no one outside of Anthropic can even
       | see, and on Anthropic's interpretation of that data. The rest of
       | the evidence cited in this paper ultimately rests on a single
       | extremely questionable "experiment" without a control group.
       | 
       | > In all, citations in the paper provide an illusion of evidence
       | ("look at all these citations") rather than actual evidence
       | ("these experiments are how we know open source LLMs are
       | dangerous and could contribute to biorisk").
       | 
       | > A recent further paper on this topic (published after I had
       | started writing this review) continues this pattern of being more
       | advocacy than science.
       | 
       | > Almost all the bad papers that I look at are funded by Open
       | Philanthropy. If Open Philanthropy cares about truth, then they
       | should stop burning the epistemic commons by funding "research"
       | that is always going to give the same result no matter the state
       | of the world.
       | 
       | The rest of the paper supports this thesis with... wait for it...
       | evidence!
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | "burning the epistemic commons". Beautiful phrase. I may steal
         | it.
        
         | artninja1988 wrote:
         | > Almost all the bad papers that I look at are funded by Open
         | Philanthropy. If Open Philanthropy cares about truth, then they
         | should stop burning the epistemic commons by funding "research"
         | that is always going to give the same result no matter the
         | state of the world.
         | 
         | I see they are in the effective altruism space. Something about
         | them seems extremely shady to me...
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | > policy paper arguing that we should ban powerful open source
         | LLMs
         | 
         | This is a corporation lobbying effort, right? I simply can't
         | believe that anyone else would actually _want_ the power of
         | LLMs to be concentrated in the hands of trillionaire
         | corporations.
        
       | MeImCounting wrote:
       | The problem is that this type of analysis and evidence does not
       | appeal to the same primal instinct that made The Terminator such
       | a successful franchise in both the box office and pop culture. It
       | is way more fun to entertain ideas of paperclip optimizers and
       | emotionally manipulative super-intelligent sociopaths than to
       | actually reason in good faith. The endless comparisons to nuclear
       | bombs or imagined super-viruses are an inevitable result of
       | people having lived through the rampant propaganda of the cold
       | war.
       | 
       | The idea of just another technology controlled exclusively by
       | mega-corps in a world where a majority of the most powerful
       | technologies are controlled by those corps doesnt seem that bad
       | in comparison with nuclear annihilation. This is missing the
       | fundamental truth of what AI is and therefore missing its most
       | direct comparison. At risk of repeating the same arguments seen
       | elsewhere on HN and other sites: cryptology is definitely the
       | closest comparison.
       | 
       | Both AI and crypto are incredibly clever applications of
       | fundamental mathematics. Both are technologies that are
       | absolutely disruptive to certain monopolies or methods of
       | societal control. Both can be replicated by anyone who
       | understands the basic principles and throws enough resources at
       | them.
       | 
       | I think we are going to watch a similar thing happening where
       | there are many concerted attempts to compromise the technology
       | itself or the availability of said tech and eventually the halls
       | of power are going to end up targeting endpoints instead of the
       | protocol (architecture) itself. The users of a given technology
       | are where regulation ought to (and I believe will) lie in the
       | end.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-02 23:00 UTC)