[HN Gopher] First observation of a virus attaching to another virus
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First observation of a virus attaching to another virus
Author : wjSgoWPm5bWAhXB
Score : 155 points
Date : 2023-11-03 12:47 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (umbc.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (umbc.edu)
| dopylitty wrote:
| Viruses are so cool. Plug for the podcast This Week in
| Virology[0] for discussion of cool virus papers and topics.
|
| 0: https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/
| jokowueu wrote:
| Do you know of any other podcasts that are this technically
| deep ?
| dopylitty wrote:
| Check out all the other microbe.tv podcasts[0]. They're all
| deep but not too impossible for someone without a science
| background. The hosts try to explain things without using too
| much jargon. They also do some YouTube live streams where
| they take questions from the chat.
|
| They have two podcasts for microbiology. This Week in
| Microbiology is similar to TWiV in that they usually cover
| papers or talk to a researcher about a paper. Matters
| Microbial doesn't cover papers but has interviews with
| working microbiologists where they geek out about their
| research.
|
| They also have a great podcast on immunology with very
| enthusiastic hosts, one for neuroscience, one for parasitism,
| and a couple of infectious disease/clinical/public health
| podcasts.
|
| The great thing about all of them is how infectious the
| hosts' enthusiasm is.
|
| 0: https://www.microbe.tv/science-shows-by-scientists/
| stavros wrote:
| > The great thing about all of them is how infectious the
| hosts' enthusiasm is.
|
| Well, if there's _one_ group I would expect that of...
| willcipriano wrote:
| Puscast, ended a bit ago:
| https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/persiflagers-
| infectiou...
|
| Same guy, also ended:
| https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-gobbet-o-
| pus/id32920...
|
| A lot of knowledge there if you listened end to end.
| woliveirajr wrote:
| Found this: https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-10-bats-elephants-
| and-aids/
| epistasis wrote:
| I love how they start the episode by reviewing everybody's
| local weather, with precise temperatures. Scientists just doing
| small talk to get things started.
| biomattr wrote:
| Some endogenous retroviruses will package other endogeneous
| viruses into capsid-like vesicles that are transmitted to nearby
| cells. One of these envelope-like proteins, Arc, is essential for
| human brain development. Viruses run the show. Where just
| catching up to speed.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| # ah, not computer viruses's.
| bozhark wrote:
| Just wait.
|
| Art imitates life
| vorticalbox wrote:
| I've read about some malware that will act like an anti virus
| by patching exploits and removing other injections so that it
| stays the only active one.
| drdaeman wrote:
| Well, Nimda was riding on Code Red, and Dabber was riding on
| Sasser.
|
| That's worms using holes or exploits left by other worms, so
| not an exact analogy. Sadly, I can't remember any virii [sic]
| attaching to others (it's been a looong while since I've last
| read any AV bulletin - that was in '00s, I think), but I
| believe there was something like that too.
| verisimi wrote:
| > The project started out as a typical semester in the SEA-PHAGES
| program--an investigative curriculum where undergraduates isolate
| bacteriophages from environmental samples, send them out for
| sequencing, and then use bioinformatics tools to analyze the
| results. When the sequencing lab at the University of Pittsburgh
| reported contamination in the sample from UMBC expected to
| contain the MindFlayer phage, the journey began.
|
| I don't get what's going on here.
|
| It sounds like they have sampled something, and somehow frozen
| the scene. They see something interesting (via "sequencing" +
| bioinformatics tools) that showed up as "contamination", and then
| they get a microscope (transmission electron microscope (TEM)) on
| that very scene.
|
| But how is it possible to isolate and perfectly 'freeze' some
| sample, such that it can be analysed twice or more with different
| tools? Are we talking about a physical sample, or are we talking
| about data output from software?
|
| If anyone knows what this all means and can translate it to
| English, that would be appreciated!
| alyx wrote:
| I really do not understand viruses.
|
| Given that viruses do not have a metabolism and are not able to
| produce their own energy, how do these satellite viruses then
| survive off of other viruses?
|
| I don't even understand how without energy producing mechanisms
| viruses can survive, propagate, etc.
|
| Can anybody recommend any good books on the matter?
| quonn wrote:
| The propagate by entering cells that do produce their energy?
|
| Theoretically not producing spendable energy would not exclude
| activity either as long as some previously made energy is
| spent.
| alyx wrote:
| How do you "enter a cell" without exerting energy?
| dist-epoch wrote:
| You convince the cell to bring you in.
|
| Or you "store" energy when you are built - sars-cov-2 is
| built with a coiled spring which is triggered by a cell
| receptor when it binds. This coiled spring releases
| mechanical energy to force merging between virus and cell
| wall:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Qi-hAXdJo
| OmarShehata wrote:
| It's the same way chemicals have effects even though they
| have no energy/way to move themselves etc: they just
| diffuse in whatever medium they're in (like salt diffusing
| in water). No energy needed
| fsckboy wrote:
| cells are not dead lumps, they are living things driven by
| energy (food sugar), doing stuff all the time and reacting
| to their environment (even if their environment is inside
| your body).
|
| The surface of the cell, the cell membrane, is a wall that
| has little "doors" or "windows" that will open and close to
| let stuff IN (sugar to burn for example, and raw protein
| parts (amino acids) so they can make them into useful
| proteins, and they open the windows to let stuff OUT, waste
| products, the useful proteins they just made, CO2. There's
| another membrane doing a similar thing around the nucleus
| within the cell.
|
| The windows in these walls open and close automatically
| controlled a bit like a lock with magnets in it. If a "key"
| with the right combination of magnets is inserted in the
| lock, the lock magnets will align to open the window.
|
| Viruses carry keys that know how to get in your windows,
| pretending to be authorized but it's a forgery. The virus
| doesn't "do" anything, it doesn't know its not doing
| anything, it just hangs around till it fits a lock. Viruses
| that look like good keys get into the reproduction system
| and reproduce. Viruses that don't unlock anything don't.
|
| if your tea leaves have these viruses in them, adding water
| to the tea will spread the viruses around the same way the
| tea spreads, and they will come into contact with your
| tongue cells.
| fsckboy wrote:
| The smallest things in your body that have a metabolism are
| your cells. Cells are much much bigger than viruses. The things
| in your body that are the same size as viruses also do not have
| a metabolism.
|
| It's sort of like there's an engine in your car. But there's
| not an engine in your engine, there are just parts that
| together make an engine. None of those parts have car-ness, but
| together they do. Your car has many parts all working together
| to make a comfortable and useful car. But the parts of the car
| if they are separated and just sitting on the bench, just sit
| there.
|
| Viruses are like those parts, car parts. When they are not in a
| cell, they just sit there. But if a virus part gets into your
| car, it gets to participate in the metabolism of the whole car,
| by acting like one of the other parts and just contributing its
| part-in-the-system. Unfortunately, the virus part's part-in-
| the-system is to turn your car into a factory/machine that
| makes more virus parts. This is how it spreads. This is why you
| do not want to get a virus.
|
| In this news story, a virus that is missing a piece of how to
| be a functioning part in your car, attaches to another virus
| that has that missing piece, and together they behave like a
| part that knows how to become one of your car parts.
| JadoJodo wrote:
| This analogy was really great. Thank you.
| alyx wrote:
| Okay so following your analogy, viruses are like
| subcomponents of an engine.
|
| How are subcomponents of an engine moving in space without
| ever exerting energy? I can imagine how this can happen
| infrequently but can't see how this propagation (movement
| without energy) is sustainable.
| space_fountain wrote:
| They're like seeds in the wind. This also means most
| viruses will never infect a cell. Maybe thinking of them
| like infected usb drives strewn across the ground hoping
| some unsuspecting cell picks them up will help.
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _They're like seeds in the wind._
|
| I like this analogy, I'll just take it a bit further:
| they are seeds in the wind where the wind is a snuffly
| and moist sneeze aaachoooooo, spraying the seeds all
| around.
|
| some viruses can sit and survive on a door handle and get
| passed that way (your hand on then handle, then you rub
| your eyes) This is called "fomite transmission". Other
| viruses cannot survive sitting on a door handle outside
| of your body. The HIV virus can only be passed directly
| from one person to another in moist body fluids, and not
| "through" normal dry skin. From this we can see why cold
| and flu spread so easily, and even though HIV does not,
| it still has very little trouble finding pathways to
| transmit.
|
| early in Covid, it was unknown how it spread. In certain
| ways we still don't know. Do masks work? A lot or a
| little? the whole thing became so politicized it's still
| hard to get good information.
| imchillyb wrote:
| > Do masks work? A lot or a little?
|
| I truly don't believe this is the relevant question.
|
| The questions society should be asking is this: "What
| percentage of the populace properly handles and dons
| masks? What percentage of the populace replaces or washes
| those masks thoroughly enough to prevent transmission?
| What percentage of the populace refuses to don a mask?
|
| Answering these questions truthfully would provide a
| better coverage graph and allow researchers to find ways
| to increase the coverage and educate the public
| accordingly.
| fsckboy wrote:
| I was not trying to answer or even ask the mask question,
| I was using something the newbies (to virology) here
| would already be familiar with to point out that even
| though we know a good bit about viruses, experts still
| don't automatically know things like "how does this virus
| propagate", it takes time to tease out the answers and
| they don't always come.
|
| It's a bit like yesterday's story here about massive
| amounts of evaporation of water occurring by a mechanism
| that science never knew about, just to point out that
| there is much to know that we don't know yet, and not to
| go deeper into evaporation where science is already
| struggling.
| jagraff wrote:
| Movement without energy is possible due to diffusion.
| Imagine you had a room with cellophane separating one side
| from another. Each side has a different gas, but both
| gasses are at the same pressure and at room temperature.
| Then, the cellophane is removed. Without adding any energy
| to the system, these gasses will mix until the whole room
| is a perfect mixture of the two gasses, simply because they
| both diffuse through the entire room. Something similar
| happens to allow viruses to move through your body (and, if
| they can be aerosolized, through the air).
| earthboundkid wrote:
| "You, sir, have been reared in great luxury as becomes your
| noble birth. How did you come here, by foot or in a chariot?"
|
| "In a chariot, venerable sir."
|
| "Then, explain sir, what that is. Is it the axle? Or the
| wheels, or the chassis, or reins, or yoke that is the
| chariot? Is it all of these combined, or is it something
| apart from them?"
|
| "It is none of these things, venerable sir."
|
| "Then, sir, this chariot is an empty sound. You spoke falsely
| when you said that you came here in a chariot. You are a
| great king of India. Who are you afraid of that you don't
| speak the truth?"
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milinda_Panha
| nomel wrote:
| > viruses can survive, propagate
|
| These are the same.
|
| Viruses are closer to self propogating exploitations of protein
| creation mechanisms. They cause their proteins to be replicated
| by these mechanisms, and statistics takes care of the rest,
| clicking the fragments together, creating a new virus, floating
| about, using other exploitations along the way, and the process
| repeats. In all stages, there're "just" bits of protein.
| Beijinger wrote:
| "No one had ever seen one virus latching onto another virus"
|
| True?
|
| The virophage - a virus that infects other viruses PUBLISHED
| AUGUST 7, 2008
|
| https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-virop...
| graphe wrote:
| After reading both articles it was "seen" in this one but it
| was known by baysian inference that the Sputnik virus infected
| other viruses as a parasite.
| Beijinger wrote:
| Please elaborate.
|
| This recent papers seems to suggest they are legit:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10301787/
| chirau wrote:
| I wonder if some computer 'viruses' can do the same.
| peddling-brink wrote:
| Using someone else's back door is definitely a thing, as is
| scanning for other infections and killing them.
| Obscurity4340 wrote:
| Its like Dr Evil's factory that manufactures miniature factory
| models
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