[HN Gopher] The hijacking of $339k worth of rare Japanese KitKats
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       The hijacking of $339k worth of rare Japanese KitKats
        
       Author : janpio
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2023-11-10 21:30 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.straitstimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.straitstimes.com)
        
       | dclowd9901 wrote:
       | I know this is an unimportant thing, but why tf doesn't kit kat
       | just sell desirable flavors here themselves? What is the deal
       | with the boner these companies have about withholding certain
       | flavors in certain markets?
        
         | abhorrence wrote:
         | Presumably in this case it has something to do with how Hershey
         | owns the rights for Kit-Kat in the USA, but Nestle everywhere
         | (at least as far as I know) else.
        
         | georgel wrote:
         | The manufacturers likely don't want to deal with additional
         | SKUs and logistics for what is a low volume item in those
         | regions. Allergies/ingredient disclosure might present
         | challenges as well.
        
         | busterarm wrote:
         | Because it's two different companies.
         | 
         | KitKat around the world is Nestle. KitKat in the US is under
         | license to Hershey. Licensing is expensive.
        
           | twic wrote:
           | It's Nestle in the UK, and they don't sell the Japanese bonus
           | snacks here either.
        
             | projektfu wrote:
             | License it to Mondelez and suddenly it will have lots of
             | flavors you won't likely buy....
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | KitKat are already full of wafer so Mondelez wouldn't be
               | motivated to 'put anything in the chocolate bar at all so
               | long as it's not chocolate'. What's cheaper than wafer? I
               | guess if they can make more of the inside wafer, so
               | there's less chocolate coating?
               | 
               | Perhaps you can make wafer bubbly, so it's more air?
               | Although it's cheaper to just put it in a plastic wrapper
               | and fill the wrapper with nitrogen...
        
             | busterarm wrote:
             | It's also hard to understand just how popular KitKats are
             | in Japan and how their products and limited time offers
             | cater uniquely to the Japanese audience.
             | 
             | KitKat has a lot of competition in the UK where caramels
             | are way more popular than weird KK flavors.
        
         | dharmab wrote:
         | Japanese retail space (as in, the physical space available in
         | the stores) favors small batches. US retail space favors
         | economies of scale.
        
         | lbotos wrote:
         | KitKat in the USA is run by Hershey.
         | 
         | KitKat globally is run by Nestle.
         | 
         | That's one reason why.
         | 
         | The second is that in Japan Kit Kat sounds like "good luck"
         | which is why they became popular, and two, why we see such
         | regional variation.
         | 
         | (I have 4 Japanese flavors in my NYC fridge right now -- Sweet
         | Potato, Adult Sweetness, Wheat, and Caramel Pudding (which you
         | bake!)
        
           | robotnikman wrote:
           | I just ended up ordering some myself after finding out about
           | these lol.
           | 
           | Another perk I've found about treats from overseas is they
           | use actual sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup.
        
             | SECProto wrote:
             | sugar instead of HFCS, cocoa butter instead of palm oil.
             | There's definitely better quality in some markets and
             | products than others
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | except they use palm oil in the caramel pudding recipe.
               | 
               | >"Ingredients: Chocolate (Sugar, Lactose, Vegetable
               | Oil(palm)whole milk powder, cocoa butter), wheat flour,
               | vegetable oil, lactose, sugar, caramel powder (skim milk,
               | concentrated milk), yeast extract, cocoa powder, whole
               | milk powder, cocoa mass, cocoa butter, emulsifier(lethal,
               | sucrose fatty acid ester, glycerin fatty acid ester),
               | sodium bicarbonate, flavor, yeast extract,(contains
               | wheat, milk, soybeans)"
        
             | reactordev wrote:
             | That's pretty much true of most overseas candies and
             | chocolates. Some of the best chocolates from Europe use
             | cocoa butter and real sugar. Not Processed Cocoa Powder,
             | HFCS, additives, colorings, preservatives, and then
             | tempered with plastic.
        
             | electriclove wrote:
             | Where did you order from?
        
             | zerocrates wrote:
             | For chocolate bars and stuff like KitKats I can't think
             | that I've hardly ever seen them use HFCS instead of sugar.
             | Maybe in ones with a more liquid component. Like, I'm
             | pretty sure even the lowly standard Hershey bar uses sugar.
        
           | karlshea wrote:
           | > Caramel Pudding (which you bake!)
           | 
           | Oh my god I have some of these I should have looked at the
           | back of the package more closely!
        
             | lbotos wrote:
             | I'm a cooking nerd so I have a torch which I find works
             | better than the oven and toasting them does actually make
             | them better!!
        
           | lynguist wrote:
           | I hadn't heard about this origin story of Japanese KitKat
           | before and looked it up.
           | 
           | Kitto katsu! means "you will surely win" or "you will surely
           | succeed".
           | 
           | So it is given as tokens for success in exams and the like.
           | 
           | Katsu for winning/succeeding also can be seen in Tonkatsu =
           | pork cutlet (katsu is the Japanese "shortening" of cutlet),
           | which is also offered as a success token.
        
         | adhesive_wombat wrote:
         | It certainly seems strange. But maybe the demand from a
         | relatively few Japanophiles doesn't outweigh the adminstrative
         | costs of maintaining a much larger number of SKUs (including
         | regulatory requirements) and they'd send boxes of green tea
         | chocolate to go out of date on shelves. I'd have thought a big
         | corporate would have pretty scalable product range management
         | but maybe it's just cheaper to hand that off to importers. Some
         | calculation must presumably be involved.
         | 
         | Though I like to think the Nestle/Hershey executives have been
         | threatened by immaculately-suited Pocky-toting enforcers of the
         | importers making profits on the novelty arbitrage.
        
         | asmor wrote:
         | They're good flavors, but not quite mass market compatible
         | outside Japan I'd presume. I used to live in a city with a
         | large japanese enclave and they were pretty well available from
         | local asian grocery stores, though still 5 times as expensive
         | as regular.
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | I don't think it's a boner over withholding flavors.
         | 
         | It's likely a profit boner. Margins on obscure flavors aren't
         | projected to be high enough in whatever market, so they don't
         | offer it. But in some other market, projections look good, so
         | they offer it.
        
       | changoplatanero wrote:
       | Wait what was the scam how did it work? Was the plan to ransom
       | the container to the owner?
        
         | xsmasher wrote:
         | Judging from the anger of the second driver, the scam is to
         | steal the load and resell it on the black market; the driver
         | must not have known what he was picking up? Or maybe they just
         | take an up-front payment and disappear.
         | 
         | Why Tristan bothered taking the loads to the storage facilities
         | instead of just throwing them out the back is a mystery. Or why
         | the storage facilities accepted them without some kind of
         | payment.
        
       | mparkms wrote:
       | So this guy whose job it is to hire truckers to move goods fell
       | for the same scam twice in a row? Fool me once, etc, etc...
        
         | closewith wrote:
         | There are lots of high-trust interfaces like this in the legacy
         | businesses that make up most of world commerce. It might not be
         | feasible to do much more in the way of background checks.
        
       | atombender wrote:
       | Previous thread from yesterday:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38195889
        
       | lawlessone wrote:
       | >Seemingly on cue, Tristan followed up. "Time for some coming
       | clean," he confessed. "I'm actually a scammer and the owner of
       | HCH doesn't have anything to do with this."
       | 
       | That's on odd admission from the scammer, when they could have
       | said nothing,
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | To me it almost sounds like the scam is to get the goods into a
         | storage facility they own and extort the owner of the goods for
         | a high storage fee to get it released. And also rack up the
         | fees by denying any claim of actual ownership for some period.
         | Aka the scammer wants the victim to know where the goods are.
         | 
         | So almost like a shady towing company taking a car.
        
         | zoky wrote:
         | Especially when they hadn't even made any money on the scam,
         | according to the article. What's the angle here?
         | 
         | It's a bit far-fetched I suppose, but the only possible
         | explanation I can see for all of this is that this is an
         | attempted (but bungled) insurance fraud scheme on the part of
         | Bokksu. Especially given the conclusion of the article, where
         | it turns out that a Bokksu subsidiary was in charge of handing
         | off the shipment to the supposed trucking company. I wonder if
         | there were actually Kit Kats in the shipment at all...
        
         | pstrateman wrote:
         | Suspiciously convenient for filling an insurance claim to have
         | a direct admission of fraud.
        
       | mikestew wrote:
       | For a moment there I thought it was going to be a company by one
       | of HN's users: Candy Japan. Same business: Japanese candy
       | subscription service. But the user profile says Candy Japan is no
       | more. :-(
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe] of a NYT article
       | 
       | More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38195889
        
         | andrelaszlo wrote:
         | The NYT article measures distances in miles but this one uses
         | kilometers. Otherwise they seem identical?
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | This reads like there is an opportunity for a YC company to
       | create an authenticated freight dispatching service. Sort of
       | "uber for freight" where you sign up owner/operators and connect
       | them with freight loads that need to move from one place to
       | another. If the company does the vetting and works with an
       | insurance company to cover liabilities both ways (o/o is at
       | fault, shipper is at fault) it seems they could capture some
       | value from creating a safer market.
        
         | tristor wrote:
         | Unless I'm missing something, this already exists. This is
         | basically what the entire LTL freight market is based around.
         | Am I missing something?
        
         | carabiner wrote:
         | https://www.uberfreight.com/ https://convoy.com/
        
         | praseodym wrote:
         | YC already invested in several companies in this domains:
         | https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/?industry=Supply%20Cha...
        
         | mike_d wrote:
         | According to a study from CargoNet the total theft of cargo
         | containers in 2022 was 1,778 units for a total of about $220m.
         | By comparison about 10,000 cargo containers fall off of ships
         | every year.
         | 
         | The problem is well below the threshold where anyone would pay
         | a dollar more per container to deal with it.
        
       | oh_sigh wrote:
       | This sounds like a scam run by the storage companies. Otherwise
       | it is hard to understand what motivation "Tristan" had to drop
       | the product off there instead of just, say, abandoning it on the
       | side of the road. I can imagine a scammer getting upset that
       | their load was a bunch of candy and not laptops or something else
       | of high value, but why take it to a storage unit after accepting
       | the load?
        
         | hiddencost wrote:
         | Sometimes if you can get someone on the hook you can keep
         | extracting money from them. "You need to pay us for storage."
         | "Oh sorry we forgot to mention, you need to pay the customs
         | agent." "We need to cover our gas expenses."
         | 
         | So they may have actually dumped the goods but seeing if they
         | could get any more out of the mark.
        
           | oh_sigh wrote:
           | But Tristan never got paid anything, and came right out and
           | told the person he was a scammer before telling him exactly
           | where to find his freight and never tried to extract any
           | money from the victim.
           | 
           | So either he's a scammer with a heart of gold and didn't want
           | a bunch of chocolate to go to waste, or he's in on it somehow
           | with the storage facilities.
        
         | mike_d wrote:
         | The actual scam here didn't play out, so NYTimes does not have
         | the full story.
         | 
         | What happens is they truck the load to a yard and open it up.
         | The contents of the trailer are then stolen and dumped into the
         | gray market. If it has no value the load gets dumped into a
         | storage facility and because the goods are accounted for law
         | enforcement won't get involved.
         | 
         | The load was coming from Japan and probably insured for a lot
         | of money, which ticked all the boxes that it would be
         | electronics or household goods of some sort. They were probably
         | shocked when it was just a brunch of weird flavors of candy
         | they couldn't sell.
        
       | lynguist wrote:
       | This was exciting storytelling! It felt like reading a fast-paced
       | almost AI-generated turn-by-turn absurdist short novel. Something
       | like Gogol's Nose.
       | 
       | I couldn't predict any of the sentences in this story, it was a
       | really surprising and captivating read. Every new paragraph had a
       | new twist.
        
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