[HN Gopher] Qanat
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       Qanat
        
       Author : vinnyglennon
       Score  : 205 points
       Date   : 2023-11-11 17:18 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | chis wrote:
       | Crucial scrabble word
        
         | kristianp wrote:
         | I came by to say this. You'd want to know about "qi" and "qat"
         | too of course.
        
       | eganist wrote:
       | Related ancient Persian technology: the yakhchal
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhch%C4%81l) (a.k.a the ice
       | pit).
       | 
       | We still use the same word in farsi for refrigerators today.
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | We still use half of the same word in English! 'yakh' and 'ice'
         | are cognates.
         | 
         | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%DB%8C%D8%AE
        
         | jahnu wrote:
         | I visited several of these things in Yazd. Super fascinating
         | technology (and the city in general too).
        
       | inductive_magic wrote:
       | Wonderful video which is somewhat related:
       | https://youtu.be/twAP3buj9Og?si=muhCC08RsFzofObB
        
         | archon1410 wrote:
         | It seems the video is making rounds yet again--it was also
         | recommended to me by the algorithm a few days ago.
        
         | guwop wrote:
         | amazing vid!
        
         | pciexpgpu wrote:
         | This entire thread is fantastic and a great learning
         | opportunity. Sent me spiraling through Wikipedia pages. This
         | video is really great too!
        
       | extensis wrote:
       | Video from Asianometry about Iran's water problems, mentioning
       | quanat: https://youtu.be/watch?v=aaEhNTpvEN8
        
       | xeonmc wrote:
       | What a coincidence, recently saw it on Asianometry's video about
       | the Iran water crisis.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaEhNTpvEN8
        
       | brabel wrote:
       | > By 400 BCE, Persian engineers had mastered the technique of
       | storing ice in the middle of summer in the desert.
       | 
       | The ingenuity of ancient people cannot be overstated. Some of us
       | think that before around 1800, everyone still lived in primitive
       | conditions... I guess this is an awesome counterpoint.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | Now I'm wondering if the sum total of all inventions prior to
         | 1800 is more or less than the total since 2000, to pick a
         | random year with no particular reason for the choice.
         | 
         | And how would you weight the importance of the inventions?
         | 
         | I think ice is nice -- but autoclaves, antibiotics, and
         | anaesthesia during surgery are much more important.
        
           | hnbad wrote:
           | "Ice is nice" is severely understating the importance of
           | refrigeration. The ability to preserve fresh foods is easily
           | up there with penicilin.
        
           | woodruffw wrote:
           | These kinds of comparisons are category errors: you don't get
           | to autoclaves and antibiotics without the civilization-level
           | changes that get you irrigation and ice in summer.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | I don't deny that, my claim is more of "what counts as
             | 'primitive conditions'?"
        
           | pazimzadeh wrote:
           | They had antibiotics. Democedes used apples fermented in hay
           | to produce something which contained penicillin when he
           | performed the first known masectomy of Darius' wife Atossa
           | 
           | I can't find the source right now but it's similar to
           | Peruvian Tocosh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocosh
        
           | KineticLensman wrote:
           | > Now I'm wondering if the sum total of all inventions prior
           | to 1800 is more or less than the total since 2000
           | 
           | Not sure why you have the gap between 1800 and 2000. But the
           | number of things 'invented' before 1800 is massive in terms
           | of the broad categories of things we consider essential to
           | life e.g. (in no particular order) fire, transport, cooking,
           | metal working, agriculture, animal husbandry, buildings,
           | weapons, health care, books, paintings, music, optics, etc.
           | There are very few things after 2000 of such importance.
           | 
           | I suspect that if you had a single cut-off at 1800, 'before'
           | might still win, if we stick to these high-level categories,
           | rather than, say, patent applications.
        
           | jcranmer wrote:
           | Your question is essentially unknowable, as the definition of
           | invention is unclear, and we have no hope of estimating
           | quantity with anything like the precision we have with modern
           | recordkeeping (we can't estimate how many patents would have
           | been produced in the 10th century had the modern patent
           | system existed back then). Recall that there's a lot of
           | innovation in the "little things"; note that a parallel post
           | is talking about different shapes of spearheads, and each of
           | those variations would definitely correspond to a new patent
           | in the modern patent system. At the same time, most written
           | sources throughout history are from elites, who give very
           | little thought to what the working classes are doing, and
           | thus tend to ignore innovation that does exist.
           | 
           | My gut instinct is that innovation rate throughout history is
           | largely constant on a per-capita basis, although I would
           | admit that probably some industries are more or less
           | innovative at various stages or in history. Through that
           | lens, the fact that you're looking at >10x total person-years
           | pre-1800 compared to post-2000 means that I'd feel rather
           | comfortable opining that there were more total innovations
           | before 1800 than after 2000.
        
         | vacuity wrote:
         | It's weird to me how compressed recent history actually is.
         | Unix was 1970, LISP was 1960, the US Civil Rights Act was 1964.
         | The Ottoman Empire was dissolved in the 1920s. At the same
         | time, there's already so much on the Internet. The iPhone was
         | released in 2007.
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | also mentioned in "Dune", the novel, along with other
       | arabic/persian words.
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | The tunnel of Eupalinos is also an interesting reference. From
       | before 550bc on the island of Samos, it was an irrigation tunnel
       | through a mountain. They started digging on both sides and
       | managed to meet in the middle just 60cm off. Pythagoras was just
       | a boy at that time, but I like to think he was influenced.
        
       | miohtama wrote:
       | Qanat will be history soon. Iran, like West USA, has exploited
       | available water resources and there is simply no water left.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_scarcity_in_Iran
        
       | startages wrote:
       | Qanat is an Arabic word which translates to "Canal", but it's a
       | little more traditional and made to transfer water for long
       | distances between a source of water and an agriculture field for
       | irrigation.
        
       | dalbasal wrote:
       | How sloped are water tables, typically?
        
       | SoapSeller wrote:
       | Also see Seville attempt to cool public spaces using modern
       | variant:
       | 
       | https://cartujaqanat.com/
        
       | aidenn0 wrote:
       | I first encountered this concept in a Sierra Adventure game:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/rd-epKNOo0U?t=3049
        
       | nagonago wrote:
       | A nearby shopping center used to be called Qanat until it got
       | bought out and renamed to the very generic (Corporation) Square a
       | few years ago. Everyone still just calls it Qanat because it's
       | such a cool word, with an interesting history!
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-11 23:00 UTC)