[HN Gopher] Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy bas...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Zero-k: A libre sci-fi RTS game, with an economy based on metal and
       energy
        
       Author : azalemeth
       Score  : 272 points
       Date   : 2023-11-19 10:43 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (zero-k.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (zero-k.info)
        
       | JCharante wrote:
       | linux support but no macos support? Aww
        
         | v3ss0n wrote:
         | Can you build from scratch?
        
           | palmfacehn wrote:
           | I didn't see a source link on the download page.
        
             | fao_ wrote:
             | > https://zero-k.info/mediawiki/index.php?title=Zero-K:Deve
             | lop...
        
           | badosu wrote:
           | Games have their own distribution method, but you can
           | download the source and the engine will handle it. In ZeroKs
           | case (https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/).
           | 
           | The most straightforward method to compile the engine
           | reliably I'd say is with the docker container:
           | https://github.com/beyond-all-
           | reason/spring/wiki/SpringRTS-B...
           | 
           | Edit: spelling,links
        
         | _flux wrote:
         | Seems the support would be a realistic feature, though, because
         | it's based on https://springrts.com/ that does support MacOS X.
        
           | white_dragon88 wrote:
           | Noise about macOS died down back in 2018, and seems the linux
           | port is riddled with bugs. This project is basically dead in
           | the water.
        
             | badosu wrote:
             | macOS dropped when Apple stopped supporting more advanced
             | OpenGL features.
             | 
             | > linux port is riddled with bugs
             | 
             | That's... interesting... as many of the engine and game
             | devs also play on linux (and a considerable part of the
             | playerbase)
             | 
             | If you're looking for the codebase Zero-K and most
             | previously spring mods are based upon you should look at:
             | https://github.com/beyond-all-reason/spring
        
         | TheHumanist wrote:
         | I'm 41, gamed since all the way back... but feel silly for
         | asking... what sort of macros would you use in games like this?
        
           | moribvndvs wrote:
           | MacOS not macros
        
           | LordShredda wrote:
           | You can program your own widgets and have them run commands
           | client side
        
           | BlueTemplar wrote:
           | They said Macintosh Operating System, not macRos, but in
           | Spring-Recoil games like these, you _can_ basically program
           | whatever you want using Lua widgets, and there 's a fairly
           | easy scripting for commands allowing for things like <<when I
           | press button X select half of the currently selected units,
           | in a radius of Y around my mouse cursor, picking only the
           | ground combat ones with more than Z% health>>.
        
           | fodkodrasz wrote:
           | In Supreme Commander you could have build templates for
           | building layouts, eg. fortifications (point defence, shields,
           | artillery, properly aligned, rotatable, etc), I relied on it
           | extensively in multiplayer to quickly get foothold. (SC was
           | successor of TA, these games started as clones of TA).
           | 
           | Just tried BAR, and the build templates would be really
           | handy.
        
         | badosu wrote:
         | The engine heavily relies on OpenGL features Apple dropped
         | support for. The best bet would be to await for a decent
         | translation layer (Zink, MoltenVK, idk).
         | 
         | Edit: clarity
        
       | liotier wrote:
       | Is Zero-k still popular now that its cousin
       | https://www.beyondallreason.info has matured ?
        
         | dmos62 wrote:
         | Wasn't aware there's a successor. Screenshots make it seem very
         | similar. Anyone played it?
        
           | jadbox wrote:
           | They are similar but different. BAR is more of a unique game
           | (for better or worse), while ZeroK is much closer to an HD
           | remake of Total Annihilation.
        
             | killerstorm wrote:
             | Are you sure?
             | 
             | BAR units are generally similar to TA units. It captures
             | the feel of "what TA would be if it was full 3D and high
             | resolution". Of course, balance is different, but TA
             | balance was very odd.
             | 
             | ZeroK seems to have terrain modification mechanics which is
             | not present in TA.
             | 
             | In BAR terrain can be damaged by big explosions, but it's
             | very limited.
             | 
             | FWIW I never played ZeroK but based on their intro video
             | BAR seems to be closer to TA visually.
        
             | BlueTemplar wrote:
             | It's pretty much the inverse :
             | http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/29067
             | 
             | BAR used to stand for "Balanced Annihilation Reloaded" - so
             | it's sticking very close to TA, while Zero-K has been
             | experimenting much more freely with what is possible in the
             | Spring/Recoil engine.
             | 
             | It's also probably a factor that BAR has spent a decade in
             | development hell (under a different team than now ?), so it
             | just didn't have the velocity to fork away sufficiently,
             | even if it wanted to.
        
               | DayDollar wrote:
               | Eh, no? Zero-k was there first, and gathered vital info.
               | The original setup for spring rollout of games was
               | thoroughly inadequat to supporting large number of
               | gamers. Fuck, the first lobby server wrote match infos
               | into a freaking textfile.
               | 
               | The first indicator of that popped up, when valve ended
               | greenlight, and just greenlit all the things. Which
               | propped Evolution RTS upon the steam front page for half
               | a day, flooding the original lobby system and showing how
               | inadequat the whole ecosystem was for that. The original
               | Evo dev Forb learned from the whole mess after he
               | returned from his day job.
               | 
               | Zero-k then learned the lessons, developed a ingui lobby,
               | started the whole matchmaking and better server
               | deployment, detached from the whole "one central server"
               | thing of the spring eco system.
               | 
               | BAR did some graphical overhaul, with Floris, Beherith,
               | Sprung and the whole original crew supported by new faces
               | like Teifion and on and on. They optimized the Spring
               | engine into a new version- more tailored to BARs needs
               | and reworked alot of the stuff.
               | 
               | Its gpl open source, so the project order and who
               | invented what is pretty flowy.. everybody copies from
               | everybody, one progress is everyones progress..
        
               | badosu wrote:
               | I don't think it's much about the timeline but more about
               | the feel of being close to TA. In which case BAR indeed
               | is closest to a some sort of TA-sense while Zero-K is
               | more unique (and that's great!).
        
               | BlueTemplar wrote:
               | How does it contradict what I said ?
               | 
               | I disagreed about <<BAR is more of a unique game (for
               | better or worse), while ZeroK is much closer to an HD
               | remake of Total Annihilation.>>
               | 
               | P.S.: You might also be mistaken about EvoRTS' Steam
               | release being specifically behind the motivation of
               | Zero-K splitting up, since according to lead ZK dev the
               | second at least partially predates the first ?
               | 
               | http://zero-k.info/Forum/Post/236480#236480
               | 
               | > 2012(ish): Zero-K splits off to its own infrastructure
               | after disagreement with infrastructure developers. From
               | my perspective they were very stubborn regarding
               | extending the protocol to allow for new stuff (Eg
               | matchmacking, more advanced planetwars) and would make
               | sudden changes that broke our autohosts.
               | 
               | > 2013-2014: Evolution RTS is greenlit on Steam and
               | released in 2014. I don't think Steam was on my radar at
               | the time, but now it looked like a possibility. Looking
               | back at the dates we actually put up a greenlight
               | campaign five days after the Evolution RTS release.
               | 
               | (Lobby interface issues being another thing, but then
               | IIRC EvoRTS had already tried to improve on this before
               | release, though not successfully enough ?)
        
           | killerstorm wrote:
           | Yes, Beyond All Reason is a great RTS. Most people seem to be
           | interested in 8 vs 8 team mode, but there's a plenty of other
           | options, including FFA.
           | 
           | I don't know how it compares to Zero-K.
           | 
           | But it perfectly captures the spirit of the original Total
           | Annihilation.
        
           | Tuna-Fish wrote:
           | Not really a successor, but as the poster above said, a
           | cousin.
           | 
           | This lineage of open-source games started from Total
           | Annihilation, which had a lot of mods that ran into engine
           | limitations. This resulted in a bunch of enterprising open-
           | sourced devs to develop a compatible engine, without those
           | limitations. This engine (Spring Engine) has then evolved
           | into something much more impressive and capable. Zero-K was
           | implemented on this engine. Beyond All Reason uses the Recoil
           | engine, which is a fairly recent for of Spring.
        
             | DayDollar wrote:
             | Eh, the engine was a accident. It started out as a
             | 3d-viewer, capable of replaying ta games by the svedish
             | yankspankers (clan sy).
             | 
             | What started out as a viewer, escalated into a 106.0
             | version long engine, providing a war that consumes planets,
             | each side with only one final wish - Total Annhilation at
             | Zero-k, beyond all reason.
             | 
             | Naw, the community comes and goes ebbs and flows. Its
             | mostly on recoil discord, some are still on the irc server,
             | the rest is on the BAR discord.
        
               | vanderZwan wrote:
               | > _svedish yankspankers_
               | 
               | Presuming that the main code contributions also come from
               | the Swedish scene I'm not entirely surprised that this
               | happened. It sort of fits my impression of the
               | gamer/programmer culture here (although I can't quite
               | express why)
        
               | 3seashells wrote:
               | 3 months of night, either tinker, drinker or metal guy
               | torching towns church(thinker).
        
           | pashsoft wrote:
           | BAR has a small but active community, they also run
           | tournaments. In terms of gameplay, it is superficially
           | similar to Total Annihilation but much more polished. The UI
           | and unit control mechanics are a masterpiece in their own
           | right. A lot of what makes a strategy game "fun" is the
           | feeling that you are actually in control of your army, and
           | that your decisions matter. BAR delivers that better than any
           | other strategy game, in my opinion. You can control large
           | armies of tiny units without feeling overwhelmed by micro,
           | and still have the option for individual-unit controls when
           | you need them. Give it a try!
        
           | loufe wrote:
           | It's THE game with my friend group right now. We play FFA,
           | team v team, team v bossAI. Great polish, watching playbacks
           | is sweet, observer seats is great.
           | 
           | Overall fantastic experience, really impressive for FOSS
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | Popularity has been waning naturally, just like the popularity
         | of Spring lobbies before it, with respective peaks around 2017
         | and 2010, but AFAIK the newfound popularity of BAR has been
         | also bringing significant new blood to these other
         | Spring/Recoil games.
         | 
         | (Without commercial levels of advertising, a lot of Total
         | Annihilation / Supreme Commander / RTS fans had never heard of
         | them, word of mouth can only go so far... at least until Twitch
         | streamers became super-popular ?)
        
         | casablancatoast wrote:
         | Thanks for the BAR link, I'm going to share that with someone
         | who'll find it useful. Appreciated!
        
         | Buttons840 wrote:
         | To compare the two:
         | 
         | Zero-K allows 16 vs 16 battles (and it works!), each player
         | controls a relatively smaller number of units. In Beyond All
         | Reason, there are 8 v 8 battles and each player controls a
         | larger number of units, maybe 200 or so at the peak of battle.
         | (There are some strong, but predictable AIs for both games.)
         | 
         | Zero-K has more units that are less realistic and have more
         | variety. BAR has more realistic units and less variety. BAR has
         | tanks, Zero-K has flying tanks that can also turn invisible
         | (this is a made up example, but illustrates the idea).
         | 
         | Zero-K has a limited economy, you have to control land to to
         | generate income, and fighting has more influence on who wins.
         | In BAR, the economy is more exponential, and at high tech
         | levels controlling land doesn't matter, you can generate a huge
         | income in a tiny corner of the map and win because your economy
         | is exponentially stronger than anything your opponents have.
        
           | astrobe_ wrote:
           | To clarify, ZK doesn't population caps like e.g. Starcraft.
           | The actual limit is actually the CPU/GPU (and maybe your
           | bandwidth too). ZK's 16vs16 host, the "lobster pot" as they
           | call it, can barely be playable if your rig is too weak.
        
             | rollcat wrote:
             | > ZK doesn't population caps
             | 
             | That sounds like poor RTS design.
             | 
             | Popcap is one of the simplest and most effective "anti-
             | snowballing" mechanisms. Once you're "maxed out", you
             | cannot get further ahead - you must attack and trade to
             | build new stuff. If you can just keep making stuff without
             | ever being forced to trade, whoever gets ahead first,
             | eventually wins.
             | 
             | Supply also serves as a comeback mechanic - you were even,
             | but took one bad fight, so you can immediately spend all
             | your money to get a new army. Meanwhile your opponent must
             | construct additional pylons before they can get much
             | further ahead - they grow stronger slower than you regrow
             | the lost limbs.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | BAR is more similar to the original Total Annihilation (and
         | successors like Supreme Commander). It's a lot of similar units
         | (e.g. tanks) with subtle variations, multiple tiers, with a
         | focus on out-numbering your opponent.
         | 
         | Zero-K went a different route. They simplified the economy
         | (metal cost = energy cost) but added a whole lot of mechanics
         | like overdrive grids and made every unit unique. There is a lot
         | of variety with mind-control, jumpjets, shields, unit-throwers,
         | self-replicators, teleports, terraforming, etc.
         | 
         | Zero-K has been on Steam for a few years, I think BAR is
         | working towards it. They are both good worthwhile games, they
         | share some common elements, but they are both worth trying in
         | their own right.
        
           | liotier wrote:
           | > unit-throwers
           | 
           | Was the BAR peewee-launching gun inspired by Zero-K ?
        
         | badosu wrote:
         | This link might be helpful:
         | https://www.beyondallreason.info/faq/what-are-the-difference...
        
         | concordDance wrote:
         | Not as much as BAR. I do prefer Zero-K though, it has a much
         | less degenerate economy (no exponential growth) and actual unit
         | AI.
        
       | ewy1 wrote:
       | So happy to see this here! I used to play this a lot with my
       | boyfriend - we were pretty evenly matched, and the game allowed
       | for so much freedom which made every game wild. The most
       | impressive feature is - in my opinion - the wide variety of
       | commands you can provide to your units and how their AI interacts
       | with them. For example, if you build a crowd of fast and agile
       | grunts and make them match speed with a slower tank, they will
       | still avoid enemy projectiles with their superior speed.
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | Indeed !
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/7qEGJlBLJSg
         | 
         | (Most, but not all of these are shared with other Spring-Recoil
         | games.)
        
         | fho wrote:
         | One of the features I used the most was the "distributed
         | move/fight" command. That just made it so easy to deploy e.g. a
         | line of heavy tanks in front of a line of artillery.
         | 
         | Or mines that were actually useful. I played a game were my
         | opponent got super paranoid after running into the first mine
         | field.
         | 
         | Good times :-)
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | It's fascinating that this grew out of a project that was
       | originally a 3D map viewer for Total Annihilation.
        
       | emsimot wrote:
       | Custom games? :D I miss playing "tree tag" on Warcraft3
       | Battle.net
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | Kind of : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr3RVDMJsEY
         | 
         | Though in WC3 (and SC1/SC2) IMHO this was enabled by a very
         | easy to use <<map>> editor, combined with a tremendous
         | popularity of the base game.
         | 
         | So if even, in theory, you can do even more (libre software),
         | in practice what you see is not as ebulliently diverse.
         | 
         | You can also compare it to the Spring lobby games - Zero-K has
         | improved on the presentation, but something has been lost by
         | not being able to easily fork the game yourself, build on it,
         | and then just put up whatever the resulting mess is, start a
         | game, and it being listed in the list of games :
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8by5C6dJDA
         | 
         | Including <<Com Shooter>> FPS using the built-in <<possess unit
         | and use FPS controls>> showcased here :
         | https://youtu.be/MpKqQxTURik?t=107
         | 
         | Which shows another tension in game development : more recent
         | Spring-Recoil games disable that feature outright, because of
         | the balance headaches it causes, and potential modders can't
         | use what they are not aware exists !
         | 
         | But modding scene does exist in ZK : http://zero-k.info/Mods
         | 
         | (In addition to the game setup itself being typically WAY more
         | open than what you find in other RTS.)
        
         | wheelerof4te wrote:
         | These types of RTSs are way less "arcadey" than Warcraft 3 or
         | Starcraft, so I don't think supporting custom games is on the
         | devs radar.
         | 
         | What you're usually after in these games are huge battles on
         | massive worlds with thousands of explosions leaving craters and
         | debris everywhere.
        
       | szundi wrote:
       | Best game ever, other favorite is BA. Nothing to conpare these
       | to.
        
       | EamonnMR wrote:
       | I wish people were slightly more up front about their games being
       | Spring Engine mods.
        
         | badosu wrote:
         | From https://github.com/ZeroK-RTS/Zero-K/:
         | 
         | > About > > Open source RTS game running on the Spring engine
         | 
         | In the place where code is present, things pertaining to code
         | are present. You don't need to throw technical details to
         | potential players at your front page.
        
         | LordShredda wrote:
         | Calling this a mod would be like calling Dota a mod.
        
           | badosu wrote:
           | Historically, games made under Spring/Recoil are called mods.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | If Spring is an engine, then this is a game not a mod. What
         | game does it MODify?
        
         | concordDance wrote:
         | Would you call a game that used Unreal Engine an Unreal Engine
         | mod?
        
       | ekianjo wrote:
       | that looks like it's heavily inspired by Total Annihilation
        
         | LegibleCrimson wrote:
         | That's an understatement. They're effectively family.
        
         | russnewcomer wrote:
         | Zero-k is based on Spring Engine, that started as a community
         | project to be a 3D engine for TA. So you are very correct.
        
       | wheelerof4te wrote:
       | Would I need a fairly powerful machine to run this? I can run
       | Starcraft 2, is that enough?
       | 
       | I've toyed with Total Annihilation, but the graphics were too
       | old, even for Brood War fan such as myself.
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | I always liked the Total Annihilation graphics and think they
         | passed the test of time quite well for a game that's 25 years
         | old. A lot of the maps were downright pretty (especially when I
         | modded them ;-) and the top down perspective was a better "3D"
         | than isometric (or much of the low poly full 3D of the time).
         | The lasers and build nanobots and explosions were a bit cheesy
         | I guess...
        
           | wheelerof4te wrote:
           | Yes, I like the terrain. But the unit designs really show
           | their age.
        
             | notahacker wrote:
             | Tbf the unit designs (those solar panels!) were pretty
             | weird at the time, looks like this has a similarly odd-
             | looking ships and factories and the same penchant for big
             | coloured panels on everything
             | 
             | Looks like the big advantage of this is that the unit AI is
             | supposed to be quite clever rather than _really stupid_ at
             | how it carries out the tasks you give it...
        
               | wheelerof4te wrote:
               | They are bragging about having a challenging AI.
               | 
               | We will see, I've just downloaded the game. Hopefully,
               | the AI is better than Blizzard's 98's Brood War brain-
               | dead computer :)
        
               | BlueTemplar wrote:
               | Projects like these tend to attract AI programmers,
               | compare SC1's native AI with what Brood War API users
               | came up with :
               | 
               | https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/01/skynet-meets-the-
               | swar...
               | 
               | Speaking of which, you might be in luck, this just
               | happened this weekend, and in my on-and-off experience
               | with Spring games, I don't remember seeing AI exhibition
               | matches very often compared to regular human competitions
               | :
               | 
               | https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1981220857
               | 
               | http://zero-k.info/Forum/Thread/36943
               | 
               | P.S.: Don't confuse unit AI (that even players have
               | direct access to) with general AI.
        
               | LegibleCrimson wrote:
               | Note that the parent poster was referring to unit AI, not
               | enemy AI. Units can do a lot more with a single command
               | compared to something like StarCraft and StarCraft II,
               | which forces you to do much more heavy micro (because
               | your units will pretty much walk in a straight line to
               | their goal, not attack unless they're A-walking, and then
               | stand in a single place without moving as they attack).
               | APM is not as important a factor in TA-heritage games,
               | and many Spring games go to great lengths to reduce APM
               | as much as possible, by doing things like automating
               | "dancing".
        
               | badosu wrote:
               | I didn't have direct experience with the AI on ZeroK, but
               | if it uses some variation of BarbarianAI that is
               | available on BAR (cousin project mentioned in other posts
               | here) it's as impressive as being a decent benchmark for
               | beating a human that has a borderline decent grasp on the
               | game (which makes it an actually good challenge).
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | It basically came out a few years before SC2, being even less
         | graphically demanding. (At which point my own PC with a GeForce
         | 4 which, for comparison to today, had either 0.064 or 0.128 Go
         | of VRAM, would struggle to run it.) Some graphic improvements
         | have happened since then of course, and the requirements are
         | now somewhat higher.
         | 
         | Now the issue is that it doesn't have the unit caps that SC2
         | does, and the number of players (now up to 16vs16 in a normal
         | game, sometimes even 32vs32, while in 2009 8vs8 would have been
         | the max), map sizes, and number of units (typically up to ~0.5k
         | in 2006 compared to topping up at ~5k-10k today) only kept
         | growing.
         | 
         | So if you want to play big team games, and have a much worse
         | CPU than the average player, you might not have the best time
         | in the endgame.
        
           | wheelerof4te wrote:
           | Are there any popular 4vs4 games?
           | 
           | I will first start versus AI, then take it from there. Not
           | really a competitive player anymore. Playing Brood War kinda
           | makes you dislike multiplayer RTS after a while, haha.
        
             | BlueTemplar wrote:
             | You might have to advertise for them in chat / forums.
             | 
             | All games : http://zero-k.info/Battles
             | 
             | All games with 8 players (though not only 4vs4) : http://ze
             | ro-k.info/Battles?Title=&Map=&PlayersFrom=8&Players...
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | According to the Steam page:                   Processor: 2.0
         | GHz dual core CPU with SSE (Intel Core 2 Duo or equivalent)
         | Memory: 4 GB RAM         Graphics: 512 MB graphics card with
         | OpenGL 3 support (GeForce 8800 or equivalent)         Storage:
         | 6 GB available space
         | 
         | I would guess that you can run this game.
        
         | astrobe_ wrote:
         | If you can run SC2 you prolly can run ZK. It does uses nearly
         | all of the 4 Gb specified in the minimal requirements, though.
         | But if you are at minimal specs, don't think about engaging
         | into the popular 16vs16 battles.
        
           | wheelerof4te wrote:
           | A fair bit above them, only graphics are a problem.
           | 
           | Intel i5 11th gen, Intel Iris UHD graphics, 16GB RAM.
        
       | white_dragon88 wrote:
       | Still no Mac support... I know the technical reason why so not
       | upset, just sad.
        
       | shoggouth wrote:
       | Does Zero-k or another SpringRTS game support "strategic zoom" or
       | building structures/units with real-time debt (as in you can
       | construct a unit that requires 10000 mineral when you are only
       | making 600 a minute) such as Supreme Commander?
        
         | Pet_Ant wrote:
         | I mean Total Annihilation pioneered that concept and Spring RTS
         | started as an open source clone of Total Annihilation so
         | definitely some Spring RTS mods do, and Zero-K almost certainly
         | does.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | They all do (Zero-K, BAR, and most of the games built on the
         | engine).
         | 
         | You can also reclaim metal from dead units and structures.
        
         | fho wrote:
         | I feel old now :-)
         | 
         | SpringRTS is actually older than the first Supreme Commander
         | game.
        
         | tomca32 wrote:
         | I think pretty much all Spring games support that. Zero-K and
         | BAR both do anyway. Both strategic zoom and real time
         | "streaming" building came from Total Annihilation and Spring
         | games are TA based.
        
       | LordShredda wrote:
       | This game is absolutely insane. There's so many tricks and plays
       | possible with the selection of units available. Ever seen a
       | commander rocket jump and shoot down a bomber plane mid air?
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | Zero-K = Noita RTS :
         | 
         | https://imgur.com/iCUnQy6
        
       | fergal_reid wrote:
       | I used to play Total Annihilation online back when I was in
       | secondary school in the late 90s
       | 
       | We'd hang out on IRC, and people would host a game on their IP.
       | 
       | Eventually I got into creating new units for the game. You had to
       | animate them with a C-like language, and I was trying to teach
       | myself C at the time so that was part of my programming journey.
       | 
       | The 'Swedish Yankspankers' were a clan that had a channel on the
       | IRC server, and my recollection, which may be wrong, is that they
       | started building an app, 'TAreplay' that we could use to record
       | and rewatch tournament games. People used to pass the exe around
       | - not very secure, but those were the times!
       | 
       | It's amazing to me that those players hacking little apps
       | together for themselves, have spawned a lineage of RTS engines
       | and games that are still going all this time later.
       | 
       | A small but incredible example of hacker culture.
        
         | russnewcomer wrote:
         | It's still some of the same folks - SJ and some of the other
         | SYs wrote the Spring Engine that Zero-K uses.
         | 
         | I myself learned how to code writing .bos scripts and hanging
         | out at Annihilated, TAU, and #gnug
         | 
         | If you want to see some of the stuff still possible and being
         | done in the TA engine, check out TAUniverse.com
        
         | jhoho wrote:
         | You'll love what the community did with Supreme Commander,
         | Chris Taylor's spiritual successor to Total Annihilation:
         | https://www.faforever.com/
         | 
         | They even created a Coop-Campaign and a completely new faction.
        
           | willis936 wrote:
           | I put a lot of hours into SupCom. It was always a buggy mess,
           | but I do remember it quite fondly. Planetary Annihilation has
           | felt like the right progression in the spiritual series. It
           | was always a very smooth experience and fixed the technical
           | issues with scaling up to massive scale combat while fixing
           | the balance issues of turtling. The skill ceiling is immense
           | and I could never beat high level bots. The nature of having
           | one to many planets also means you can play cooperatively
           | with up to several friends. It's a good time.
        
       | jader201 wrote:
       | I hadn't heard of this before, and was excited that a new RTS was
       | being announced, given that RTSes seem like a fading genre.
       | 
       | Of course it's just a link to an older game. I guess the days of
       | the RTS really are behind us. :(
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | It's a bit like calling Magic the Gathering <<just>> an older
         | game. (<<It came out in 1993, how old, must be bad !>>)
         | 
         | Your complaint would have more merit if the _many_ innovations
         | of Spring-Recoil engine games had been adopted more widely in
         | the genre, but even Supreme Commander 1 came short (except for
         | polish maybe).
         | 
         | You cannot expect RTS to become one of the biggest genres
         | again, but it's still quite lively (yes, even outside of SC2
         | and AoE2) :
         | 
         |  _RTS is fun, actually (and you can learn it): a video essay -
         | CloudCuckooCountry_ :
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl4myN8q_KM
         | 
         | A list of upcoming(ish) RTSes :
         | 
         |  _The Most Anticipated RTS Games in 2023 & 2024... SO MANY! -
         | GamerZakh_ :
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKujSK4FRWk
         | 
         | (Notably, including BAR, another Spring-Recoil game.)
         | 
         | (Yes, most of them will suck and fail, such is life.)
        
         | brucethemoose2 wrote:
         | The Planetary Annihilation devs are coming out with a factory-
         | rts hybrid game akin to Mindustry.
         | 
         | That seems the direction RTS is heading in general, hybridizing
         | with other genres.
        
           | olavgg wrote:
           | link?
        
         | wheelerof4te wrote:
         | Stormgate is one of the recent promising titles.
        
         | concordDance wrote:
         | I'd still recommend it though, it's very fun.
        
       | thinkingtoilet wrote:
       | As someone who still watches the Korean Broodwar scene, how are
       | the mechanics in this game? Is there micro? Or is it more sc2
       | style where you put all your units in a single control group and
       | then death ball them into the other death ball?
        
         | Pannoniae wrote:
         | The game is much less click-intensive, but you need _really_
         | good situational awareness for it. It doesn 't have
         | "traditional" micro, you don't need to manually queue units or
         | babysit every single unit so it doesn't die immediately, but to
         | win, you need to micro in key areas and most importantly,
         | manage your economy well.
        
           | thinkingtoilet wrote:
           | Interesting. Does managing your economy mean being efficient
           | and keeping resources low or are there more complex elements
           | to it?
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | More like SC1.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0lYXap5rbM
         | 
         | Still, there are just too many differences from both SC1 and 2.
         | Starting with a higher importance being placed on team games.
         | 
         | For a similar, yet different gameplay, see Beyond All Reason.
        
         | concordDance wrote:
         | Not heavy micro I'd say, but death balls won't work very well
         | normally, the composition of your ball matters a lot, as does
         | how you position it.
        
       | ordu wrote:
       | The strange thing I cannot play war games any more. Not after
       | Russia invaded Ukraine. War now seems Really Evil and playing
       | with it doesn't seem appropriate. I wonder does anyone else feel
       | like that?
        
         | Arech wrote:
         | same.
        
         | astrobe_ wrote:
         | I am OK with war games as long as there's no humans or human-
         | likes in the game. ZK's sentient robots are fine for me,
         | contrary to something like 0 A.D. (which even has female
         | workers - maybe I'm old school, but that's even more a no-go
         | for me).
        
         | mock-possum wrote:
         | Nah it's still 'just' a game for me. It would have to be
         | exceptionally immersive to trigger that response - the Walking
         | Dead games by TellTale for instance, caught me off guard. I
         | remember there was one big moral choice that I kind of just say
         | and stared at the screen for what seemed like half an hour
         | before I could finally make a decision for my character.
         | 
         | But a birds' eye view of a somewhat sci fi RTS? So far removed
         | from real life and practical considerations that it doesn't
         | even blip the radar for me.
        
         | wheelerof4te wrote:
         | Such a strange thing to say. Are you saying war did not exist
         | before Russia-Ukraine war?
         | 
         | Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria...US instigated wars aren't
         | evil enough for you?
        
           | ordu wrote:
           | No, they were far away and not my problem. It is silly from a
           | rational standpoint, it is probably unjust from a Universal
           | Justice standpoint, but I'm not talking about rationality or
           | justice right now, I'm talking about emotions.
        
             | wheelerof4te wrote:
             | Understandable.
             | 
             | Sorry, let's hope for a quick and just peace then.
        
         | eric_cc wrote:
         | Why Russia / Ukraine? There is nothing particularly notable
         | about this conflict compared to others. War has always been
         | war.
        
           | ordu wrote:
           | Yeah, I think you are right. But I didn't feel it before it
           | hit me into the face. Me personally. Wars seemed too far away
           | to feel real.
        
       | Centigonal wrote:
       | Lovely to see Zero-K on the HN front page.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | It's multiplayer only right?
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | Nope, even has a campaign that can be played in coop (coop
         | through Steam only) :
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfVdH02RUQ8&list=PLi9_tXwdXO...
         | 
         | Don't expect an extraordinary story though, it's much more
         | focused on being a series of puzzles showcasing various game
         | features.
        
         | astrobe_ wrote:
         | Nope. There are various levels of AI that can serve as
         | opponents, including an AI and game mode that sends waves after
         | waves of enemies until you kill enough of its stuff that it
         | sends the final boss you must defeat to win the game.
         | 
         | There's also a _campaign_ that introduces units progressively.
         | I 'd recommend to start there.
        
       | aspyct wrote:
       | This has a very strong Warzone 2100 vibe to it, I like it :)
        
       | internetguy wrote:
       | WOAH! Did NOT expect to be here. I've been playing Zero-k for
       | over a year and it is so. much. fun. I play BAR (Beyond All
       | Reason) and Zero-k with some of my friends.
        
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       (page generated 2023-11-19 23:00 UTC)