[HN Gopher] YouTube is now blocking Ad Blockers - So I just make...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       YouTube is now blocking Ad Blockers - So I just make ads run 16x
       faster
        
       Author : znpy
       Score  : 208 points
       Date   : 2023-11-23 21:33 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (old.reddit.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (old.reddit.com)
        
       | colesantiago wrote:
       | Does YouTube work without JS? This might be one way to avoid ads
       | as well as a network wide Pi Hole.
       | 
       | I hate it when YouTube / Google needs to exploit everyone's data
       | and privacy in order to make money.
        
         | rollcat wrote:
         | Does anything at all run without JS these days? I swear all I
         | wanted was to read a blog post, and it loaded more megabytes of
         | JS than the text and pictures combined.
        
           | DoingIsLearning wrote:
           | One example that comes to mind is Kagi.
           | 
           | They makes it a design point that Kagi should work even
           | without javascript enabled.
        
         | lagrange77 wrote:
         | > Pi Hole
         | 
         | They serve the ads from the same domain, as the site itself.
        
           | colesantiago wrote:
           | Surely it's possible to block the paths to the ad on the site
           | itself.
        
             | mirashii wrote:
             | Not with DNS blocking, which is what the pihole is
        
             | kuroguro wrote:
             | Pi Hole just blocks on DNS level, I believe.
        
             | Salgat wrote:
             | The problem is that it will refuse to play content if it
             | can't play the ad.
        
             | tiagod wrote:
             | Pihole is only intercepting DNS resolve requests. Those
             | only resolve the domain itself. If they don't use a
             | different domain to serve ads, then it can't be blocked
             | that way.
        
           | potatopatch wrote:
           | Good thing the whole site is a bug, though I rarely end up on
           | YT by accident since videos are marked in web etiquette.
           | 
           | For twitter.com a filter option here on HN would be nice but
           | a domain blocker might do.
        
         | recursive wrote:
         | Not even close.
        
       | ipsum2 wrote:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38327017 same idea, but open
       | sourced.
        
         | rKarpinski wrote:
         | Thanks for the shoutout :)
         | 
         | Got a pr about increasing the speed to 16x wonder if it's same
         | person. I only set the ad speed for 10x, since it can access
         | the skip button and do button.click() if there are longer adds.
         | 
         | https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/ad-accelerator/gpbo...
         | 
         | I was also surprised most of the downloads are from Japan
        
       | dudul wrote:
       | I got to say this arm race is interesting to watch.
       | 
       | I wonder if we'll reach a point where YT asks viewers to pass a
       | captcha at the end of an ad to prove that they watched it before
       | getting back to their video.
        
         | hervature wrote:
         | Q: When Bob greeted Alice at the door, what purse did Alice
         | have?
         | 
         | A: Louis Vuitton
        
         | LoganDark wrote:
         | > I wonder if we'll reach a point where YT asks viewers to pass
         | a captcha at the end of an ad to prove that they watched it
         | before getting back to their video.
         | 
         | GPT-4 has entered the chat
        
           | idonotknowwhy wrote:
           | It still gets them wrong a lot of the time
        
             | LoganDark wrote:
             | So do people.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | _"Please proceed to purchase the item being advertised in order
         | to continue watching."_
        
         | jfim wrote:
         | They already do a poll thing where they ask "which of the
         | following brands have you seen ads for recently?"
        
           | tiagod wrote:
           | I had no idea, ublock is still doing a decent job... But I
           | get those prompts on Waze when stopped at red lights and it's
           | super annoying!
        
           | kenhwang wrote:
           | I built the industry first version of that product :)
           | 
           | Fun way to screw with Google is to pick the worst answer
           | (haven't seen any of the products, worse impression of the
           | brand, etc).
           | 
           | Advertisers are starting to try to measure advertising
           | effectiveness (did the user actually see our ad and like our
           | product) instead of easily game-able metrics (impressions,
           | time on screen, click through).
           | 
           | However, we found that poor ad experiences would result in
           | poor metrics. Advertisers really don't like it when they
           | spend millions of dollars in advertising to get a report that
           | says "your target demographic is less likely to consider your
           | product now after seeing your ads".
        
         | professoretc wrote:
         | Please drink verification can.
        
           | socceroos wrote:
           | A classic. It was such a joke back in the SA/Slashdot days. I
           | feel like we've come a long way...into the pit...since then.
        
             | Prickle wrote:
             | A decent amount of that meme has come true. At least, in
             | the sense of printer ink.
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | I'm waiting for the end game where AI processes a native
         | instance of the desktop and outputs a modified desktop
         | according to criteria. Ads can be displayed and playing in the
         | background but they get swapped by random gifs to fill time,
         | dark ui patterns get identified and highlighted. Everything
         | gets post processed sanitized on the final disaply layer with
         | no interaction to the outside.
        
           | AeroNotix wrote:
           | I'd rather just let the AI watch the video at that point and
           | go play with my kids.
        
         | idonotknowwhy wrote:
         | Hopefully the AIs learn to pass captchas soon. I've tested gpt4
         | and it still gets them wrong a lot of the time.
        
       | DarkNova6 wrote:
       | Yep, I have been doing this for a very long time as well. Works
       | like a charm.
        
       | Twid3 wrote:
       | Youtube still works as normal (no ads, no problems) for me with
       | the latest Firefox and uBlock Origin.
        
         | einpoklum wrote:
         | Same here (I also use EFF Privacy Badger though). Also not
         | getting ads with Chromium and uBlock Origin.
         | 
         | Could this be a country-specific thing?
        
           | 13415 wrote:
           | I suspect that, too. I got two weeks of anti-ad blockers that
           | required refreshing uBlock Origin. Then all anti-adblock
           | messages stopped. Maybe Portugal has low priority. As far as
           | I can see, practically no one will pay for Youtube Premium
           | here.
        
         | kuroguro wrote:
         | I sometimes get blocked but refreshing the ads and quickfixes
         | lists on ublock solves it every time
        
         | underseacables wrote:
         | Since Firefox is apparently going to follow google with
         | blocking ad blocks, do you have any thoughts of what browser
         | you might move to next?
         | 
         |  _Firefox said it will adopt Manifest V3 in the interest of
         | cross-browser compatibility._
         | 
         | https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2023/11/chrome-pushes...
        
           | littlecranky67 wrote:
           | They adopt manifest v3 in addition to their current APIs. I.e
           | adblockers on Firefox are going nowhere.
        
           | acover wrote:
           | Having v3 is good, but only having v3 is bad. Is Firefox
           | removing v2 support?
        
           | bc_programming wrote:
           | Firefox's implementation of Manifest V3 will work with
           | software like ad blockers as it does not have the same
           | limitations imposed on the browser side.
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | Does not "block blockers" for me. Hopefully stays this way or I
       | am out of it
        
       | charcircuit wrote:
       | Or you could get youtube premium and not have to bother with a
       | bookmarklet
        
       | willsmith72 wrote:
       | The only times I've put up with ads so far is when casting to my
       | TV.
       | 
       | I don't mind the ad recommendations on home and after a video,
       | but having to watch an extended ad or 2 before a video, and
       | continuosly throughout the video, is enough for me to get off
       | YouTube as an entertainment platform.
       | 
       | Still useful for tutorials, but that much advertising makes the
       | experience completely unenjoyable. Doubly so if the ad has to be
       | "skipped" or else will run for 3 minutes, and I'm in the middle
       | of something with hands occupied (cooking, working out...)
        
         | thallium205 wrote:
         | You can pay to turn off ads. There I saved YouTube as an
         | entertainment platform for you.
        
           | willsmith72 wrote:
           | im good. for entertainment SoundCloud and netflix are good
           | enough, youtube just makes good recommendations. not worth
           | >$100/year
        
           | llbeansandrice wrote:
           | It's like $16/month which is insane
        
         | namtab00 wrote:
         | Am in the same place... I consume YouTube on my SmartTv (native
         | app on LG WebOS).
         | 
         | Am contemplating buying a Chromecast with Google TV, and
         | installing SmartTubeNext on it, just so I can escape the ad
         | barrage: - 2 ads on video start, unskippable - multiple (at
         | least 2) 2 ad breaks during even a 10 minute video, almost
         | always unskippable.
         | 
         | And the worst thing? It's the same 5-10 ads that you get!...
         | they rotate in and out on a weekly basis, but the sensation is
         | you see the same frickin ones over and over again! I don't work
         | in marketing, but if I ever get to speak to someone who does,
         | I'll definitely tell them that repeatedly seeing your ad will
         | definitely put me off your client's product, even if it is the
         | best choice on the market.
         | 
         | I already own a Chromecast Ultra, but it sits unused for more
         | than a year now.
         | 
         | I'll never get YouTube Premium. I (maybe) can afford it, but
         | it's too much for what I get in return.
        
       | hbn wrote:
       | I don't get why people have no problem paying for Netflix, Hulu,
       | Disney+, etc but are so stubborn about YouTube in particular,
       | when myself and I know many others watch more YouTube than any
       | streaming service.
       | 
       | Even when ad blocking extensions work, it's only for browsers. If
       | you're on Android you can install hacky modified apks, but
       | YouTube breaks them every once in a while and then you're waiting
       | for an update and having to go through some patching process
       | again (I have to do this with YouTube Vanced to watch YouTube on
       | the cheap Kindle Fire I use exclusively for YouTube in bed). If
       | you're watching on a smart TV YouTube app or Apple TV or
       | something... I assume there's options, but you're again gonna be
       | wasting so much time on maintenance and keeping things up to date
       | in the ad-blocking arms race, I'd rather just pay. And I don't
       | know why anyone should expect YouTube to be infinitely ad-free
       | and payment-free forever. All that storage and data transfer
       | ain't free.
       | 
       | Far from it that I'll defend Google, but I don't know what's so
       | special about YouTube where it's the one service people use more
       | than anything else they pay for, but they won't pay for it.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Even with YouTube Premium, many YouTube videos contain
         | sponsorship messages within the video. I know they're there for
         | reasons, but having two types of advertising does make YouTube
         | different than Netflix, Hulu, Disney+ etc.
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | YouTube isn't paying for server costs with the $0 they make
           | on ad reads that go from the sponsor directly to the creator.
           | 
           | You can just tap right on your keyboard a few times to get
           | past those anyway.
        
           | recursive wrote:
           | Netflix definitely has some "placed" products in some movies.
        
             | hotnfresh wrote:
             | One of the episodes of Stranger Things took like a one-
             | minute break to do a soda ad. Probably the most jarring and
             | disruptive "produce placement" (but really, it was more of
             | an embedded ad) that I've seen.
        
         | tiew9Vii wrote:
         | I'm with you. I get a lot of value out of YouTube, mostly
         | consume though the TV app. I pay for YouTube premium.
         | 
         | What is really annoying is the mobile app. The mobile app is
         | constantly pushing shorts on me, I have no interest, that's not
         | why I use YouTube and if I only used the mobile app I don't
         | think I'd pay and instead use YouTube less. The mobile app Home
         | Screen is junk content for me now where as the TV app brings
         | relevant longer content...although they are sneaking in one or
         | two shorts.
        
         | weebull wrote:
         | Netflix invests in content creation, as do other streaming
         | platforms. YouTube piggybacks it's business on amateurs,
         | largely paying them with "exposure" and some fractions of a
         | cent per view.
        
         | cesarb wrote:
         | > I don't get why people have no problem paying for Netflix,
         | Hulu, Disney+, etc but are so stubborn about YouTube in
         | particular, when myself and I know many others watch more
         | YouTube than any streaming service.
         | 
         | I never used any of these platforms, but I can guess the
         | reason: these platforms were always paid, which sets the
         | expectation that one has to pay to get access to them. YouTube,
         | on the other hand, has for a very long time been available as
         | non-paid (and even logging in is optional, with rare
         | exceptions). Furthermore, YouTube has for a very long time
         | worked even when the user has an ad blocker installed and
         | enabled (few people customize their ad blocker; if they
         | installed it because they were annoyed with DoubleClick
         | animated ads, or with DoubleClick tracking their every move
         | across the whole web, they won't care what else the default
         | lists of their ad blocker blocks). People are used to viewing
         | YouTube without having to pay, and if they use ad blockers,
         | without ads (and people who are not used to viewing ads are
         | going to be _more_ annoyed at excessive ads then people who are
         | already used to watching some ads). It 's natural to feel some
         | anger at the other party altering the deal, and having to pray
         | they don't alter it any further.
         | 
         | And beyond that, it has always been socially acceptable to
         | ignore and/or reject ads; I might be showing my age with these
         | examples, but things like going to the bathroom during the ads,
         | muting the audio, pausing the recording during an ad break (or
         | fast-forwarding through them during playback), and so on, were
         | always acceptable, and nobody would scream that you _MUST_
         | watch the ads or you 're stealing from the TV station. Why
         | should YouTube be any different (and it even has "Tube" in its
         | name to make the analogy stronger)?
        
       | SeanAnderson wrote:
       | I don't understand why this is any different than adblock. If
       | this is an effective, client-side means of defeating ads, and
       | Youtube has an effective way of defeating client-side prevention
       | methods, then isn't this just going to be patched in the same way
       | as adblock?
       | 
       | Said differently, this is clearly an arms race. I have more trust
       | in uBlock winning an arms race than any other extension. If it
       | fails then I don't believe any other will succeed.
        
         | Buttons840 wrote:
         | One endgame is ad-blockers just blank the video and mute the
         | sound in an undetectable way. Given the negative spiral that
         | modern Internet usage often is, a moment of quiet to breathe
         | and maybe break the cycle I would welcome.
        
           | SeanAnderson wrote:
           | I can see it now - YouTube puts a quick yes/no question after
           | the ad to confirm comprehension. :)
           | 
           | Relevant green text: https://i.imgur.com/dgGvgKF.png
        
             | AeroNotix wrote:
             | It's the company's fault for making you want it so much.
        
             | yulker wrote:
             | Please drink a verification can.
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | Speaking of enshittification, whatever happened to imgur?
             | That image does not load directly despite being a deep
             | link. Plus it's so low resolution the text is unreadable! I
             | guess they are one step away from just taking down the http
             | server altogether and just forcing everyone into their app
             | which will connect via some proprietary protocol.
        
               | SeanAnderson wrote:
               | That's interesting. It loads directly for me and the
               | quality seems fine. I have experienced the issue you're
               | describing when attempting to direct link to Reddit
               | images lately, though. I wonder why we're experiencing
               | differences?
        
               | tedunangst wrote:
               | Imgur tracks which pages you've loaded and won't show you
               | the image until you see the html. Literally what you're
               | complaining about.
        
           | hanniabu wrote:
           | That actually would be pretty nice. It would also help break
           | the mindless loop of going from video to video.
        
           | conradfr wrote:
           | They'll force you to have your webcam and mic available to
           | watch YouTube.
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | Mandatory eye-tracking.
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | Someone needs to make TiVo, but for YouTube
        
         | cnees wrote:
         | UBlock can't fly under the radar, but maybe this can for a
         | while.
        
         | BolexNOLA wrote:
         | I mean, isn't this is basically a reason not to do any sort of
         | prevention for most things?
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | It's a reason to pile all the effort into the same tool.
           | 
           | But the it ignores the fact that it may be able to work just
           | because it's small.
        
           | SeanAnderson wrote:
           | I think I'm just biased because I built an extension a decade
           | ago that made YouTube a better music player. It flew under
           | the radar for a couple of years, then got popular, then I got
           | C&D'ed and lawyered into the dirt [1][2].
           | 
           | It makes me sad watching people get excited about releasing
           | their totally new, innovative YouTube extensions as if this
           | is a welcoming space.
           | 
           | These extensions don't exist because they get destroyed not
           | because it's a space ripe for innovation.
           | 
           | [1]https://thenextweb.com/news/how-youtube-killed-an-
           | extension-... [2]https://imgur.com/15gaOf6
        
         | augustulus wrote:
         | probably more effective than trusting ublock is to find an
         | obscure method. ublock is too much of an easy target for
         | google. on the flipside, something obscure is possibly harder
         | to trust
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | The ad blocker arms race is still a victory for the companies.
         | The average user is going to get tired of fighting the
         | constantly changing strategies and debugging why their latest
         | combination of extensions isn't working today despite working
         | yesterday. Even if they can figure it out half the time, that
         | still means they're watching 50% of the ads instead of 0%.
         | 
         | I also see many people capitulating, especially among my peers
         | who realize that spending potentially hours every month keeping
         | up with the latest adblocker tricks is not a good use of their
         | time relative to the trivial amount of money they're saving on
         | YT premium.
         | 
         | The die hards will always fight this battle and don't seem to
         | care how much effort it takes. Some people derive a sense of
         | satisfaction from gaming the system or "winning" against
         | corporations. They all have their justifications, but it
         | doesn't matter much.
         | 
         | As long as it's sufficiently annoying to deal with, the number
         | of people fighting it and succeeding will be negligible small.
         | The problem was when as blockers were so easy that they jumped
         | from a small number of techie users and started catching on
         | among the general public. Once an ad-supported company starts
         | seeing a significant number of users evading the ads _and also_
         | refusing to pay, they have to do something.
        
           | throw_pm23 wrote:
           | This is true from the corporations point of view, but as a
           | user, why should I take that perspective? If me and my family
           | don't have to see ads, and it is a minor effort, it's still a
           | victory for me.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | > Said differently, this is clearly an arms race.
         | 
         | Definitely. The next phase is an AI agent "watching" (through
         | the "analog hole") if necessary and applying computer vision
         | systems to detect and remove ads.
        
           | devmor wrote:
           | This is essentially the level that high end competitive video
           | game cheating is reaching now too.
           | 
           | Plugging directly into the computer as a separate device that
           | emulates monitor, mouse and keyboard.
        
       | paulcole wrote:
       | YouTube Premium is a top 5, maybe top 3 subscription service that
       | I pay for. Others in that tier would be Amazon Prime, Apple One+,
       | NYT Crosswords, and 1Password.
       | 
       | Watching on every device without praying that this week's
       | ridiculous workaround continues to function for only like
       | $15/month feels like a bargain.
        
         | EGreg wrote:
         | and that's how they get you :-)
         | 
         | Remember folks... when running away from a bear you don't have
         | to outrun everyone, just the slowest person
         | 
         | And similarly, to get people or organizations to pay, you just
         | have to make it much more expensive for them at every moment to
         | hack or fork your service than just pay you. It gets harder the
         | bigger the organization is, but works like a charm on the long
         | tail!
         | 
         | If you've got an open source platform, it's a major
         | consideration because a competitor can just fork your service
         | and start offering it. So you have to have enough of a network
         | effect and lock-in (e.g. ethereum nodes only taking ethereum
         | gas as payment) that the fork is not as accepted for years,
         | despite being faster and better (e.g. polygon). You can
         | centralize trust (Amazon), Liquidity (exchanges) and ease-of-
         | use through vertical integration (Apple).
        
         | yurishimo wrote:
         | Same. I figure that since I watch this much YouTube, it's
         | probably worth paying for. At the moment, the rev share seems
         | to be _okay_ compared to other creator platforms, so I take
         | that bit of solace as well.
        
         | conradfr wrote:
         | That's fine but all the streaming platforms get more expensive
         | every x months nowadays.
        
           | paulcole wrote:
           | Is it too expensive today? If not, sign up and then cancel
           | when it gets too expensive. Plus at work, I get a raise every
           | x months nowadays, too. Gotta spend it on something.
        
         | genocidicbunny wrote:
         | I wouldn't be able to enjoy my usage of it. I have a strong
         | moral objection to ads, so to me paying to get rid of ads is
         | akin to paying off the bully so they will stop beating you up.
         | Next week they might decide you haven't paid enough, or that it
         | doesn't even matter that you paid up -- they're bored and want
         | to beat someone up.
         | 
         | I'd rather give the bully a whack in balls instead.
        
           | sanswork wrote:
           | Asking people to provide compensation for a service isn't
           | bullying. They even give you a choice on how you pay. You
           | hate ads, they give you an option to avoid them and now you
           | hate paying to avoid them. You're trying to makes yourself
           | sound self righteous and you just sound like you believe you
           | are entitled to others resources.
        
             | genocidicbunny wrote:
             | I'm not trying to be righteous, my moral compass is mine.
             | 
             | I'd be fine with YouTube being a purely paid service.
             | Either pay, or the server returns a 500. I might even be
             | willing to pay for it then, knowing that the only ads i
             | might encounter are sponsor segments in the video
             | themselves (that i can also skip right on by.)
        
           | paulcole wrote:
           | You've been regularly commenting on a website that's an
           | advertising/marketing channel for a VC firm since 2018.
           | 
           | Seems like it's more accurate to say that you have a moral
           | objection to either ads you don't like or things you have to
           | pay for?
        
             | genocidicbunny wrote:
             | HN doesn't force me to watch or read the ads. I can always
             | ignore the posts that are mainly advertising.
             | 
             | So perhaps my moral objections are to obnoxious, in your
             | face, unavoidable advertisements.
        
             | oldkinglog wrote:
             | I've been reading HN since around that time, and it's
             | hasn't made me sympathetic toward VC. If anything it's
             | hardened my views against consumption, greed and
             | advertising.
        
         | djur wrote:
         | I agree. If you watch a lot of YouTube it's a great deal. Way
         | cheaper than cable.
        
         | idonotknowwhy wrote:
         | I'm happy to pay for it, but I don't always want to be logged
         | in and gave an echo chamber created for me. When I'm not logged
         | in, I don't want to watch ads
        
       | krona wrote:
       | Watching one ad and then clearing cookies seems to work for me. (
       | _shrug_ )
        
         | AeroNotix wrote:
         | Well trained, citizen.
        
       | bcrl wrote:
       | I just wish I could convince Google that I will _never_ buy
       | certain products that they force feed me ads on continuously. No,
       | I will never buy a Chromebook, so please stop putting that ad
       | everywhere. No, I am not going to switch to an Android phone
       | either.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | In fact, everyone should instead band together to finance
         | development of more maximally open hardware for laptops and
         | phones and tablets.
        
         | genman wrote:
         | I bought my current car only because I was able to block the
         | car maker being stupid and force me to watch their ads on
         | Youtube. I didn't use ad-blocker before but interruptive video
         | ads were the last straw for me.
        
         | throwaway346434 wrote:
         | We need to kick this up a notch, with automated recognition of
         | the advertiser and either complaint letters generated to their
         | sales team email addresses, a media regulator, or for those
         | with physical stores, geofenced notifications on your device to
         | remind you how intrusive the brand has been/directions to the
         | nearest competitor's store at the tap of a button.
         | 
         | You can absolutely advertise on an intrusive platform, but as
         | consumers, we can aggressively boycott/make your marketing work
         | against you.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | How can you prove you are trustworthy?
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | Everyone feels that way, but in a large population some
         | percentage will be swayed. Display ads are a statistics game,
         | not a transactional one.
        
           | bcrl wrote:
           | But there are oodles of other things that I would consider
           | buying! They'd do better with random ideas for Christmas
           | gifts for family members, which would be nice given that it
           | is the season...
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | Yes, but they can get you to talk about Chromebooks and Android
         | phones by advertising them incessantly. See, you just did it
         | again!
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | And I take great pleasure to manually shift to invidious
       | instances just out of spite.
        
       | endisneigh wrote:
       | Why don't people just not use YouTube if they don't like the ads?
       | Simple.
       | 
       | Peertube is there for those folks. People keep whining about the
       | monopoly but won't go to another service to help grow it.
       | 
       | People also whine about sponsor ads, as if you have to watch
       | those videos or those channels. Don't consume their content if
       | you don't like it.
       | 
       | At the end of the day, if you don't want to be tracked, hate ads
       | and hate Google the solution is simple: stop using YouTube.
       | 
       | The anti Facebook people understand this, which is why we don't
       | see incessant posts about facebooks anti-Adblock on HN. The kind
       | of people on HN who hate Facebook probably just don't visit the
       | site at all. Same with Reddit vs mastodon. Twitter vs threads.
       | Quora vs ChatGPT.
       | 
       | Anti YouTubers seem unique in their constant whining yet
       | reluctance to stop using what they hate.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | Because it's the only platform you can find on a Google search.
        
         | calamari4065 wrote:
         | >Why don't people just not use YouTube if they don't like the
         | ads?
         | 
         | Simple: the videos they want to watch don't exist elsewhere.
         | PeerTube doesn't help you if nobody you watch publishes to it.
         | 
         | I use PeerTube, I run my own instance. PeerTube really sucks
         | compared to YouTube. Even with all of the enshittification and
         | google crippling the service, the quantity, quality, and
         | discoverability of videos on YouTube has no comparison at all
         | anywhere.
         | 
         | People use YouTube for the reason they use anything: there
         | simply is no viable alterative.
         | 
         | Whining at people to use PeerTube doesn't help. You have to
         | convince people to publish there before anyone _can_ use it.
        
         | TheMode wrote:
         | Because these websites create expectation. If everyone is using
         | YouTube, won't you be missing something by not going? If you
         | started using the service when you felt it was great and it
         | deteriorated since, would it really be unfair to feel a sort of
         | betrayal?
         | 
         | You should go tell drug addict to just stop, not that hard.
         | Maybe also to everybody complaining about house pricing, after
         | all our ancestors build theirs with log and dirt why would you
         | need something else.
        
         | kimixa wrote:
         | And surely it's self evident that if everyone blocked ads, the
         | service would stop functioning?
         | 
         | So all this is about being the "Special Few" who can get away
         | with it, despite often positioning themselves as the Moral
         | Choice because the adverts are bad.
        
       | creativenolo wrote:
       | I'm oddly OK for now with the pop up. Still would rather it to an
       | ad. Makes me reflect on if I really want to have surfed to where
       | I am. And I find myself moving on or seeking elsewhere.
       | 
       | This may all change. But the friction\value trade offs are a bit
       | 'shrug' for me. Maybe instant video is still novelty and waiting
       | a few seconds to see it, isn't so different.
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | I think it's odd that YouTube hasn't simply proxied the ads into
       | the same stream to make them indistinguishable from the video.
       | Technically the browser is pulling chunks of video from their
       | servers, and the ad content is pulled from different servers
       | which ad blockers restrict. If the ad chunks weren't
       | identifiable, there would be no practical way of blocking them.
       | It'd be like removing commercials - or those in-video sponsorship
       | segments - from a live broadcast.
       | 
       | It seems YouTube is creating an arms race with ad blockers and
       | alienating users by threatening bans than simply changing the way
       | the ads are served. Yes, there's a whole industry around bidding
       | for, dynamically serving and tracking ads using VAST and all
       | that, but I'm positive Google has the market power to change
       | that.
        
         | tentacleuno wrote:
         | > I think it's odd that YouTube hasn't simply proxied the ads
         | into the same stream to make them indistinguishable from the
         | video.
         | 
         | Yeah, same -- cable TV has been doing that since god knows how
         | long. There must be some internal engineering reason(s) behind
         | it.
        
         | markdown wrote:
         | The cost of doing so would be magnitudes more than what they
         | could make from ad money.
        
           | tedunangst wrote:
           | I could build such a system for a mere billion.
        
       | eigenvalue wrote:
       | YouTube premium is one of the best value purchases I've made. If
       | you subscribe to Netflix you're probably better off canceling
       | that and replacing it with YouTube premium. Also, you can get the
       | family plan for not much more and share with your parents and
       | siblings (or in-laws!)-- they will be very appreciative if they
       | watch YouTube and don't already have premium. It's not just for
       | skipping ads, it also lets you download videos locally on your
       | phone and the audio continues in the background when you switch
       | to another phone app.
        
         | PartiallyTyped wrote:
         | YT premium is one of the few subscriptions I find reasonable
         | tbh. Youtube music, no ads on youtube, my conscience is clean,
         | and I support creators.
        
           | vetinari wrote:
           | > no ads on youtube
           | 
           | Really? No ads baked-in into videos by the creators? I.e.
           | those skipped by another add-on, sponsorblock?
           | 
           | > and I support creators.
           | 
           | Are you sure about that? Why do they need to put their own
           | ads into videos then?
           | 
           | By paying Netflix, Amazon Prime, or other streaming service,
           | you surely would: Netflix and Amazon have to pay for the
           | content. But Youtube? They get it for free.
           | 
           | > my conscience is clean,
           | 
           | But your privacy-awareness should be on alert. For YouTube
           | premium, you have to be logged in. You can bet, that Google
           | profiles you based on what you watch. They just don't show
           | you the ads right on the YouTube, but surely they do
           | elsewhere on their network.
           | 
           | Think of it like browser equivalent of the smart tv connected
           | to net.
        
             | PartiallyTyped wrote:
             | > Really? No ads baked-in into videos by the creators? I.e.
             | those skipped by another add-on, sponsorblock?
             | 
             | Sponsorblock, yes.
             | 
             | > Are you sure about that? Why do they need to put their
             | own ads into videos then?
             | 
             | For the people who use ad-blockers. Not me specifically and
             | youtube doesn't provide a functionality to skip certain
             | parts on paid views.
             | 
             | > But your privacy-awareness should be on alert. For
             | YouTube premium, you have to be logged in. You can bet,
             | that Google profiles you based on what you watch. They just
             | don't show you the ads right on the YouTube, but surely
             | they do elsewhere on their network.
             | 
             | I use kagi (paid), and ad-blockers for everything else.
             | 
             | I can live with google having access to my [poor] music
             | taste and view history.
        
         | _the_inflator wrote:
         | Same here. No hassle whatsoever. I cannot remember seeing an ad
         | for years now, honestly, I do not get the discussion about
         | blockers when you have everything via Premium. I use YT a lot,
         | more often than Apple Music for example.
        
         | cvhashim04 wrote:
         | Hard to pay for something that was always *free*
        
           | djur wrote:
           | YouTube has had ads forever. It's never been free.
        
         | prolapso wrote:
         | >skip ads
         | 
         | >download videos locally on your phone
         | 
         | >the audio continues in the background when you switch to
         | another phone app
         | 
         | Y... you mean like NewPipe already does?
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | There's also a firefox addon (firefox for android) that can
           | help you play youtube video audio in the background.
        
         | thallium205 wrote:
         | YT Premium is the only media subscription needed.
        
         | mattrighetti wrote:
         | I use YouTube A LOT.
         | 
         | I follow a bunch of developers and engineering channels on it
         | and I learn a lot of stuff on YouTube in general.
         | 
         | A couple of years ago, after running AdguardHome on my network,
         | I've noticed that YouTube ads became more and more aggressive
         | and that was hard to unnotice since I mostly consume YouTube on
         | mobile devices that don't have adblockers. I just gave up and
         | convinced myself that YouTube, of all the services, is the one
         | that probably deserves my money, so here I am, paying for the
         | student plan which is 6.99EUR a month. Now, after almost a year
         | of premium, it's probably the only plan I could not give up
         | along with Spotify's. I'm not used to ads anymore, I listen to
         | a lot of stuff in background mode and I love it more than
         | before.
         | 
         | Only thing that got on my nerves is that they now decided that
         | if you don't activate watch history you're not going to get a
         | Home feed, which is crazy if you ask me.
        
         | SeanAnderson wrote:
         | How will you feel when YouTube introduces quick ads for premium
         | users and longer ads for free users?
         | 
         | There's absolutely nothing stopping the arms race from
         | continuing past the point which you are currently satisified.
         | 
         | Just look at Hulu, for example.
         | 
         | Also, it's ridiculous that YouTube was able to convince people
         | it's acceptable to have audio pause when in the background. If
         | YouTube on Desktop paused audio when the tab was not the active
         | tab it would be fundamentally unusable.
        
         | afavour wrote:
         | Not to mention you get YouTube Music too. The app is inferior
         | to Spotify but it's good enough and let me get rid of another
         | subscription.
        
         | thesagan wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
       | net23 wrote:
       | Blipvert
        
       | coffeecloud wrote:
       | Just pay the $15 for the ad free version? The entitlement people
       | feel for a free service that takes hundreds of millions of
       | dollars in compute and human hours to run boggles me.
       | 
       | Don't like ads? Don't like subscription fees? Don't like large
       | tech companies? Great! Go to the library and check out a book.
        
         | hobs wrote:
         | They are entitled, but just like any commercial service this
         | will just bloat to "ad lite" and then "full ads but you can
         | still pay for it" - cable did the exact same thing.
        
           | drivers99 wrote:
           | When's that? It's been 8 years so far, so good.
        
           | blindhippo wrote:
           | It's already there, except the ads are baked into most
           | content as "sponsored videos". They make it easy to skip over
           | the ads (seriously, just fast forward 20-60 seconds depending
           | on the video).
           | 
           | For better or worse, the vast majority of my media
           | consumption is youtube these days and of all the subs I pay
           | for, it's the one I get the most value out of. I don't get
           | the cynicism.
        
         | saos wrote:
         | Erm No.
        
         | jmprspret wrote:
         | Oh boo hoo.
        
         | AndroTux wrote:
         | For me personally it's the way they're bullying me to pay it.
         | For years I wanted YouTube and Twitter to introduce a paid plan
         | with less ads. And then they did, and immediately started
         | harassing everyone who didn't purchase it right away with ads
         | every few seconds. It's just rude and I don't like being
         | bullied into doing something.
        
           | blindhippo wrote:
           | What's the alternative here? Just offer the service with
           | minimal ads and just hope people decide to sign up for the
           | ad-free version - a value proposition that makes little sense
           | since the ads are minimal?
           | 
           | They aren't bullying anyone. They are trying to make a
           | business model work as efficiently as possible. Anything that
           | relies on ad revenue is going to be predatory like this.
        
             | makeitdouble wrote:
             | Your point is they're not bullies, just mere predators ?
        
         | dade_ wrote:
         | I'm fine with paying for this type of service,but the last
         | thing I want to do is give money to YouTube so it can become an
         | even bigger defacto monopoly.
        
         | analognoise wrote:
         | The deal was they siphon off all our private data, ruin society
         | and get filthy rich, we get an infinite place to store cat
         | videos.
         | 
         | They're breaking the implied contract, not us.
        
           | arsome wrote:
           | I mean the entire point and value of that whole data siphon
           | thing is literally the ads.
        
         | throw_pm23 wrote:
         | Spoken like a true hacker.
        
         | dvngnt_ wrote:
         | no. sponsor block, downloading, kodi playback is free whereas
         | you're paying for a worst experience while being tracked
        
         | arsome wrote:
         | I pirate everything anyways, why in the hell would I pay for
         | YouTube?
        
           | adamgordonbell wrote:
           | 55% net goes directly to the creators making the videos. The
           | very video you are watching.
           | 
           | Encourage what you want to see in the world.
        
         | namlem wrote:
         | No. They're making my pay for the bundle of YouTube Music plus
         | ad free YouTube. I'm happy with Spotify, I refuse to pay extra
         | for a service I won't use.
        
           | NavinF wrote:
           | If it was $10+$5 for YouTube+music, this thread would be full
           | of people complaining that Google is nickel and diming them
           | because there's already music on YouTube.com
        
         | xienze wrote:
         | I 100% guarantee you that eventually the $15 tier will have
         | "limited" ads and then the upcoming $25 tier is ad free, rinse
         | and repeat. It's happened with cable, it's happened with
         | streaming, it'll happen with YouTube.
        
           | NavinF wrote:
           | Doubt it. Most streaming sites are still ad free and their
           | prices only increased with inflation. Both YouTube and
           | creators already get way more revenue from premium
           | subscribers than ad watchers so I doubt that'll change this
           | decade
        
         | yumraj wrote:
         | > Just pay the $15 for the ad free version?
         | 
         | Why not pay people to watch the ads by a similar logic?
         | 
         | BTW, curious has anyone ever anywhere in the world, any media,
         | tried creating a channel/stream which just shows ads and pays
         | people if they watch? Wondering if that'll work.
         | 
         | Also, I rarely watch YT, so for me personally $15 or whatever
         | the price is, is too high.
         | 
         | Another thing, ad blockers also help in privacy. $15 may result
         | in no ads being shown in YT, but does that also mean that
         | Google is not collecting data? I'll consider paying to Google
         | for a no-data-collected mode.
        
         | devmor wrote:
         | I'll pay for the ad free version when youtube stewards a
         | responsible and accountable platform - both in moderating
         | content and in proving transparent appeals instead of giving an
         | open path for copyright trolls to harass and cause monetary
         | harm to creators.
         | 
         | Until then, they get no money and I watch no ads.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | How are you using the word "entitlement" here? A very small
         | number of people are looking for technological solutions to
         | block ads, presumably motivated more by the enjoyment of the
         | intellectual pursuit than by the disdain of ads.
         | 
         | I don't see any statements or actions even remotely hinting at
         | feeling _entitled_ to an ad-free viewing experience. They're
         | simply trying to figure out how to achieve an ad-free
         | experience.
         | 
         | If someone locally modifies a website's visuals to implement
         | dark mode, would you lambast them for feeling _entitled_ to
         | dark mode?
        
         | UncleMeat wrote:
         | Yeah the rage here is wild to me. People _constantly_ say
         | "just give me an option to pay" but Youtube Premium has existed
         | forever and remains an option.
        
       | zerr wrote:
       | Can ad publishers filter out ad blocking users as not being their
       | target audience? Forcing someone to watch your ad most likely
       | triggers negative connotations about your brand.
        
         | SnorkelTan wrote:
         | I think advertising still works even on people who don't like
         | it and prefer that if not.
        
         | riku_iki wrote:
         | Some ML likely doing this: they track your interests, for
         | example you searched adblockers in the past, it goes as a
         | feature to ML model, and model predicts that it is unlikely you
         | will click and make purchase, and they will bid on you much
         | lower, as result you will see lots of cheap junk Ads..
        
           | zogrodea wrote:
           | While reading your comment, I thought abouts ads for ad
           | blockers like "hey, we noticed you searched for ad blockers
           | so here are the top 10 best!". That's not a good idea though.
        
             | JD557 wrote:
             | > That's not a good idea though.
             | 
             | I wonder why you say that. At least an ad for a specific ad
             | blocker sounds like a great idea.
             | 
             | - Ideally, you don't send ads to users of your product -
             | Users of inferior products will see your ad, and it might
             | be super effective (if you used MY adblocker, you wouldn't
             | be seeing this ad) - Everything else is a user that doesn't
             | have an ad blocker, and it's probably an easy sell to say
             | "would you like to never see ads like this?"
        
         | hnick wrote:
         | This is one argument I've used in my head for ad blockers -
         | you're removing hostile viewers so it might be a net win. It's
         | like dropping flyers in a "no junk mail" box. I wonder if
         | anyone studied it.
        
       | keithnz wrote:
       | using edge with ublock origin I haven't seen any ads. If I use
       | chrome I get problems.
        
       | fallat wrote:
       | YouTube, Google - just pull the trigger guys. Make YouTube a
       | completely paid for platform.
        
         | bad_alloc wrote:
         | This instantly loses the main selling point: Massive audience.
         | If they manage to get 20% of people to pay (which would be
         | huge) they'd lose hundreds of millions of viewers still.
        
         | jacobwilliamroy wrote:
         | There are so many people currently employed at Google whose
         | livelihood (think mortgage payments, food, gasoline) depend on
         | having a problem that they can work on but never solve.
        
       | iamacyborg wrote:
       | If only regulatory bodies were as motivated in combating
       | advertising's huge data privacy issues inherent in RTB as Google
       | are in beating down people trying to not have their data sent to
       | hundreds of third parties without consent.
        
       | DevKoala wrote:
       | What is the stance of the people who work against the revenue
       | generation of the services they consume?
       | 
       | Should YouTube be a free service or what?
       | 
       | It's only a semi-ironic question. Perhaps someone has a vision
       | for how it all works out.
       | 
       | Full disclosure: I work on programmatic advertising technologies.
        
         | tehbeard wrote:
         | You're never going to capture the "will never watch ads" group.
         | 
         | What is being destroyed by YouTube's current policy that led to
         | this anti adblock attempt, is pushing too far with the ads.
         | 
         | Crap quality and overstuffed.
         | 
         | A 5 second ad on a 4 minute video? Fine.
         | 
         | 1:30 ad, one of TWO... on same video?
         | 
         | Fuck. That. Noise.
         | 
         | It's the same segmentation issue as piracy, y'all get
         | hyperfocused on the group that will NEVER play ball, and ruin
         | the experience so much for those that would, that they "swap
         | teams".
        
         | joenathanone wrote:
         | If the USPS was never a public service America would literally
         | look differently. Maybe social media(including YouTube) is the
         | modern day USPS, the primary way Americans interact/communicate
         | with each other.
        
         | adityamwagh wrote:
         | I'm ready to pay about a $2 per month for YT as a paid service.
         | Personally, paying more than $2 for a software makes me want to
         | avoid using it completely.
        
         | bigyikes wrote:
         | Ad-supported services account for the fact that some users
         | block ads.
         | 
         | If users blocking ads is enough to make the service
         | unprofitable, the service should switch to a paid model or shut
         | down.
         | 
         | It's an adversarial relationship. The service is within their
         | rights to shove ads down your throat, and you're within your
         | rights to fight back.
         | 
         | (I pay for YouTube Premium)
        
       | mathgradthrow wrote:
       | The right to block advertisements is the right to close your eyes
       | and plug your ears. Google is trying to argue that its a
       | violation of their terms of service to close your eyes and plug
       | your ears. It's a violation of my person to try and detect
       | whether I'm not paying attention to your ad.
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | I find this interesting. Do you consider YouTube to just be a
         | consumer product or does it occupy a different space in your
         | mind?
        
         | l33tman wrote:
         | There is an old Black Mirror episode where people have to sit
         | in cubicles with 4 screens around them looking at ads to gain
         | credits or something, and it tracks if you close your eyes it
         | simply pauses the ads...
        
         | fxtentacle wrote:
         | I believe Google still has the right to waste 3 seconds of your
         | time, so if they only verify that you wait for the duration of
         | the ad, that would be a fair equivalent to you closing your
         | eyes.
         | 
         | And I guess that's the next line of defense: GPU shaders to
         | just replace ads with something more pretty to look at.
        
       | zare_st wrote:
       | I (Firefox+uBlock Origin on FreeBSD, Windows 10, Rocky, CentOS),
       | logged in, have not encountered this yet.
       | 
       | I also run a small channel mostly with ROIO bootlegs. The channel
       | has never been penalized, it has a small but growing user base,
       | and all the videos have been monetized by someone else. I also
       | sometimes watch a video from my cellphone where the ads run.
       | 
       | These might be the factors why I still didn't get the Youtube
       | stick.
       | 
       | P.S they've been monetized by companies that have no rights to
       | monetize them whatsoever. However I have no rights over the
       | material and if legal holders wish to battle the record companies
       | that hogged my videos, that's great. If I have a recording of TV
       | broadcast of singer-songwriter playing his material in a public
       | festival, the record label that paid and released studio version
       | of those songs has no stake in that. There can be a complex
       | contract between broadcaster, festival and the performer, but I'm
       | sure record company is not part of it unless it has explicitly
       | funded the festival or the broadcast, which is a rarity, not
       | applicable to my videos. The algorithm IDs these tracks as studio
       | versions or as official live version which then trigger
       | "ownership" by those record companies.
       | 
       | So let's not pretend Youtube is some fair entity that needs to be
       | paid fairly. They don't play fair themselves.
        
       | corn-dog wrote:
       | Hey the creator here, was not expecting this to blow up at all. I
       | made this I guess because of the Streisand effect, I probably
       | never would have bothered if it weren't for all the news about ad
       | blockers not working.
       | 
       | I intend this as a second line of defence against ads, where the
       | first line would be a conventional ad blocker.
       | 
       | After work I'm going to investigate the same technique for
       | speeding up paid sponsor portions of the video.
       | 
       | My background is a web dev, but I make extensions in my spare
       | time :) I recommend making some yourself they are a fun little
       | project
       | 
       | If you want to see a way more awesome extension I've created
       | check this out - https://mobileview.io/
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | Hmm. You'd still have to disable uBlock Origin on youtube and
       | thus let google track you?
        
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