[HN Gopher] Mold Course ___________________________________________________________________ Mold Course Author : tosh Score : 304 points Date : 2023-12-06 12:58 UTC (10 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.epa.gov) (TXT) w3m dump (www.epa.gov) | lovasoa wrote: | I initially thought this would be about the mold linker | (https://github.com/rui314/mold) | justinclift wrote: | Heh, I was hoping it was something to do with designing | industrial injection moulds or similar. :) | DonHopkins wrote: | I was hoping it was a course or tutorial about nurturing, | cultivating, and simulating friendly slime mold, not brutally | eradicating harmful fungoidal mold! | | Like these fascinating tutorials about visually programmed | Slime Mold Simulations using Blender's simulation and | geometry nodes: | | Slime Mold Simulation Nodes Tutorial (Blender 3.6a) | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_eHAsC9OoA | | Simulation Nodes Tutorial: Slime Splattering Generator | | Blender 3.6 Geometry Nodes | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUzfJPlBzIs | | Tutorial | Grow Cordyceps Fungus in Blender 3.5+ | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LOaFbbTSZQ | | Slime free Add-On for Blender 3.1 | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJEvaeTNCkw | | Slime Mold Effect | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FMSgOAoq7Q | | Another Slime Mold Simulation | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y5nyeeuDug | | Random Projects in Blender (Physarum Transport) | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBQk3uiKSE0 | | Blender 3.6 Physarum Simulation! (Part 2) | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ycc-D6ITOOs | | Grid-Based Physarum Simulation | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU8qQF-5Qtw | | Physarum (Slime Mold) Simulation in Blender! (Final Part) | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErIZn8WPr08 | | Physarum Simulation Test (Blender 3.5) | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcaHXVZZUIk | | Blender 3.6 Physarum Simulation! | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQY8UOoto7I | xutopia wrote: | Funny thing I'm actually learning to grow the right mold in my | charcuterie. | davemp wrote: | Seems like a pretty reasonable guide from my quick read. The most | important thing for people to know is the following snippet: | | > It is impossible to eliminate all mold and mold spores in the | indoor environment. However, mold growth can be controlled | indoors by controlling moisture indoors. | | Dealing with mold is pretty easy, just get everything dry. No | need to go crazy tearing the building apart to hunt for | dormant/dead mold (obviously there is a correlation of moldy | building with neglected buildings so you might have to | demo/repair anyways). If air quality is a concern that can be | addressed monitoring/filtering. | | Afaik mold is only a big topic because of lawyers seeing a nice | liability and the media a spooky story. | baobabKoodaa wrote: | > Dealing with mold is pretty easy, just get everything dry. | | No, that's not enough. Dormant/dead mold can still cause air | quality problems. In most cases damaged material needs to be | replaced. In some cases it's sufficient to isolate the damaged | material to reduce its impact on air quality. | | I'm from Finland and it seems that we treat mold much more | seriously compared to other countries. I don't know if Finnish | people have a genetic or environmental effect that makes people | much more susceptible to get symptoms in moldy buildings, but | it's super weird reading about how other countries treat | mold... | giantg2 wrote: | In fairness, they did say monitoring air quality was part of | the solution. If you get it dry and clean any visible mold, | then the air tests come back fine, it shouldn't be an issue. | The air tests are the only way to really know. | dumbfounder wrote: | Are you talking about those petri dishes you put out? I | have heard from a trusted mold expert that they just always | show up positive. I don't know that I trust that, but the | problem is that every house actually has mold, and in many | places, and who knows what's actually contributing to the | problems. Are massive air purifiers enough to mitigate the | issues? Can you just tackle the surface molds? Maybe these | questions are answered in the mold course, I need to take | it asap. | baobabKoodaa wrote: | > Are massive air purifiers enough to mitigate the | issues? | | As far as I know, air purifiers do not filter mold | related particles in the air to any useful amount. | ponector wrote: | Depends on the model. HEPA filters can filter mold | particles. | baobabKoodaa wrote: | It's not possible to reliably test if the air has harmful | amounts/species of mold or not. The air quality tests | contaminate very easily and even when they don't | contaminate, there is a lot of uncertainty with the | results, and given any particular results, different people | will opine different interpretations of them... | ponector wrote: | Yes, for European it is weird to read. | | I think this is a big issue in US because the way they build | houses, mainly with wood and gypsum. In case of water damage | it is really hard to dry those materials. | digging wrote: | Typically in the US, nobody at any point in the process gives | a shit if a home is or will become moldy, except sometimes | the person living in the home. It's especially bad for | renters who in many states have almost no legal protections | (and if they do have them, accessing them is incredibly | difficult). | notslow wrote: | > Afaik mold is only a big topic because of lawyers seeing a | nice liability and the media a spooky story. | | Unfortunately, mold is also a growing health concern for a | sizable portion of the population. My family got severely ill | from a moldy house, and it is taking us years to fully recover. | The longer we have been aware the more and more folks we find | are dealing with something similar. | | The EPA Guide is a great start, but in our experience lacks | some situational nuance that might increase its helpfulness. | Each person reacts differently mold, some folks are just more | sensitive than others. There are no federal standards for mold, | either for allowable amounts in your home or guidelines for | construction. So depending on your health response you may in | fact need to go crazy tearing apart your house to hunt for | mold. | | After talking with ~30 different mold remediators, inspectors, | remodeling contractors, etc. We got ~30 different responses for | possible causes for mold in our our home. Ultimately, the cost | to fix the true sources of mold in our home (due the sources | being related to construction practices around the foundation) | was equivalent to new construction. We ended up tearing down | the moldy house. We're hoping to move into our new house late | next spring! | giantg2 wrote: | Some people charge insane prices. I can't believe a | foundation issue would cost as much as new construction. It's | not that hard to put in a French drain, even if the house | needs to be cribbed up due to structural issues. | notslow wrote: | I know, seems crazy from the outside looking in, but | nothing was particularly outrageously priced (and we did | get several estimates from all sorts of people). To be | fair, it wasn't just the foundation. Because of the mold in | the basement the rest of the house also became contaminated | and needed to be remediated (and my family is now super | sensitive). I will also note that this during COVID so | prices were somewhat higher than they are now. Believe me | we did not set out to tear down our house, but that ended | up being the best way to address the issues with the old | house. | mrsirduke wrote: | I have a similar story, but in our case it was a rental house | in the Bay Area. It's been 3 years and who knows how many | temporary places to live, and we're still not even close to | recovery. | | We ended up with the realization that the rental housing | stock in the Bay Area are all very old, usually not well | maintained and depending on the area, very likely to have or | have had water damage, the only thing we could do to get into | newly built housing, was to rent an apartment. | | The amount of bad information and advise is pretty staggering | - if you're adversely reacting to the environment you're in, | the best thing you can do is remove yourself from it, then | accept that you may never be able to return to it. | | Anyway, this all sounds very familiar and you're welcome to | reach out to me at <hn-name>@icloud.com - and that goes for | anyone else dealing with similar stuff. | davemp wrote: | If you're living in a house without active water issues (roof | leak, foundation leak, etc), proper | filtration/ventilation/de-humidification, and are still | having reactions to mold; it's probably best to just move | (like you found out). No need to tear apart the current | house. | | If you need supreme indoor air quality, that'd take the | following: | | - A fairly air tight building envelope - Proper WRB and | insulation strategy (exterior+interior in many places) for | your climate (including basement) to prevent condensation - | Adequate continuous ventilation/filtration | | Which is not feasible for most housing stock in the USA. You | might be able to keep the framing, plumping/electrical, and | foundation (if you're lucky). Framing is relatively cheap | compared to the rest of the house. | blub wrote: | What kind of issues did you have with the foundation? | | There's many individual damage symptoms, but typically | humidity somehow enters through the walls of the basement, | making them damp/wet and thereby leading to mould | infestation. | | The expensive but thorough solution is to dig around the | foundation and install a vertical damp-proof course around | the outside walls. The walls would additionally require | drying and depending on building material removing the old | plaster and re-plastering. | | If a concrete floor is damp, the culprit would be a crack | which can be sealed with special injected sealants. If it's | an older type of floor, it may need to be replaced with | concrete. | | How did the basement infest the rest of the house, just | regular air transfer or did humidity rise through the walls | and caused infestation in the above-ground rooms? | gregwebs wrote: | It is becoming a big topic because more people are becoming | sensitive to mold exposure and more time is being spent | indoors. Think of how the prevalence of allergies has increased | dramatically in our society. Something similar may be happening | with mold except at orders of magnitude lower prevalence. | Actually there are theories that similar pathways are involved | with allergies and mold- that mold triggers immune reactions | just like allergies. | | When I learned about mold sensitivity I got concerned and | started doing mold tests and looking out for mold exposure but | eventually realized that nobody in my family is mold sensitive. | The "not a big deal" attitude is right for most people, but we | should be sensitive to those that are highly mold sensitive. | kijin wrote: | Exposure to mold is also likely to be correlated with | socioeconomic status, especially in more humid parts of the | country. Think what kind of people are most likely to live in | rundown houses (or even basements!) barely above the water | table, without a functioning HVAC unit. | | Mold is the kind of problem that is at most a nuisance for | people who have the means to do something about it, but | seemingly unsolvable for people who actually need a solution. | notslow wrote: | This! One of the best solutions to prevent mold is to | improve energy efficiency. There are an increasing number | of grant programs and Housing improvement initiatives | available, but still those improvements are out of reach | for a lot of people. We live in the Southeast US which is | incredibly humid and so many houses have issues. | bonton89 wrote: | Houses are a lot tighter than they were in the past which | makes it harder for them to "dry out" unless you have some | kind of air circulation system. My house certainly doesn't | and it wouldn't be easy to retrofit. | giantg2 wrote: | I don't know about that. Most new houses have air | conditions for the hot humid days and a heater for the cold | days. Most fully below grade basements have dehumidifiers | in wet climates. I've never had issues with moisture except | in cases of some system failure, like a sump pump. | ponector wrote: | Apartments in our block have air-tight windows and doors. | But also there are passive ventilation input in every room, | which allow flow of some fresh air through closed windows. | Central ventilation is constantly taking air from the | apartment so we have no issues with excess moisture. Some | people even put a humidifier during cold months to get | moisture level up to 50%. | eggy wrote: | Yes, time spent indoors, and the West's obsession with anti- | septic environments. I bought a little cabin on a lake in NJ | after moving from NY. I didn't bother sealing every crack and | nook with sealant given my energy bill was reasonable, and I | liked the fresh air exchange over time. Friends moved up | there and built air-tight houses with all the modern | materials with foams, glues, carpet backing, tiling and other | products that need a significant time to off gas, trap | particulate and moisture, and as we now know, mold can thrive | on almost anything with moisture. Anecdotal, but it seemed | they were at the doctor's office 2 to 3x per year vs. my kids | only going for checkups. People are now hypersensitive to so | many things, and I believe a lot is due to this approach to | what it means have a healthy home and household. I have | raised 4 children, and aside from some mildly annoying | hayfever for a very short period for 2 of them, they are | mostly non-allergic and I am grateful, have no medicinal | allergies. I also think we have grown a bit hypochondriacal | and have actually fed into this phenomenon. There are even | studies claiming 50% more likelihood to contract MS if you | are exposed to the solvents or chemicals in paint thinners | and household cleaning solutions. Even "organic" products in | large amounts do not bode well for most people's health, so | housing construction that claims to be "organic" with low VOC | elements used sometimes doesn't even address the need for | sufficient air exchange with fresh air over environmental | ratings on windows, appliances, etc. Somewhere in the middle | there is a happy medium from my natural materials, drafty | cabin, and an air-tight, "organic" material house. We had | mold in the attic and it was black and after reading about it | back in the late 90s early 2000s I went up and cleaned the | rafters with Clorox (yes, chlorine, I know. My nuclear | solution!). and opened the once-closed off ceiling to the | attic. I put in skylights and opened up the A-frame for more | air and light. Nobody in my family at the time, including my | newborns seems to have suffered from having lived with this | black mold, but evidently, there are many and I am not sure | how prevalent dangerous black mold is from your generic black | mold, but as I have said earlier, anything in too large a | quantity can be deleterious to your health. Too much grain | dust in the air would irritate you too and in high enough | concentrations probably kill you over time! | 2devnull wrote: | My sensitivity appeared to change after living in a moldy | apartment. I originally scoffed that mold was an overhyped | problem, but it caused problems for me that persist years | later. I am now very sensitive to damp/moldy air and have to | take an allergy pill everyday for indoor allergies. | nix0n wrote: | > just get everything dry | | In many places this is not easy. | dumbfounder wrote: | I have chronic vestibular migraines and it has been suggested by | a few that mold might be triggering them. I am just starting to | go down that rabbit hole so this is very timely! | kathysgeek wrote: | Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome is the mother of all | rabbit holes. But after suffering severe multi-system symptoms | for many years I 90% recovered. Several experts in the field | have told me that most if not all migraines are due to | environmental exposure to toxins (mold and actinomycetes). | | Environmental illness is real with measurable physiological | effects. And it is treatable. | | https://www.survivingmold.com/ | https://www.survivingmold.com/docs/SHOEMAKER_PROTOCOL_ESSAY_... | dumbfounder wrote: | What kind of doctor did you go to and what kinds of testing | did it take? How long did it take once you figured out what | was going on to get to 90% better? My neurologist seems | disinterested in finding the root cause. I even had to | diagnose myself and then go to several doctors until one | agreed. I take migraine meds and they help a lot so far, | especially Ubrelvy, but it is $100/pill and I am not sure it | will be covered by insurance. | notslow wrote: | If you are concerned about mold being a cause, there are | couple of urine tests for mycotoxins that were super | helpful for us understanding the mysterious illness in our | family. | dumbfounder wrote: | What kind of doctor do I go to and what are the name of | the tests? | notslow wrote: | You need to find a functional health practitioner, and be | willing to try many different practitioners. It took us | several tries to find a practitioner who was willing to | test for mold. If you aren't familiar, functional | practitioners focus on the root cause of medical issues | rather than just symptoms. We found success with a | functional nurse practitioner, though they capped out and | we have moved on. | | There are two tests we do periodically: | https://realtimelab.com | https://mosaicdx.com/test/mycotox-profile/ | | You may be able to find ways to get the tests directly | (not through a health practitioner) if that ends up being | the path you need. They are not cheap and not typically | covered by insurance, but we found being mysteriously ill | was way more expensive in the long run than paying for | tests. May your path to healing be a straight one! | kathysgeek wrote: | Unfortunately, urine mycotoxin testing is not | diagnostically significant. | | "Even if we are presented with impeccable lab results | from ELISA and thorough use of standard differential | diagnosis (we aren't), based on world-wide control data, | and a robust literature on CIRS, there is no basis to | ascribe any diagnostic significance to urine mycotoxin | testing" https://www.survivingmold.com/Publications/Urina | ry_mycotoxin... | | However, there are significant blood tests including | Transforming Growth Factor Beta-1 and Complement C4-A. | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGF_beta_1 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4A | notslow wrote: | I recognize urine mycotoxin tests are potentially | controversial, but these tests were very diagnostically | significant for us and our mold journey. The mycotoxins | that were off the charts in our tests matched the mold | that was eventually found in our house (after multiple | mold inspectors missed it). | | This area is definitely more "gray" than implied by your | comment. I have tremendous respect for Shoemaker, but | there are some gaps in that paper that did not appear to | address how our practitioner used those tests for us. | Many of the studies mentioned in the meta-review focus on | the presence or absence of mycotoxins not the measured | amount. Also, our practitioner used the test "backwards" | compared to procedure outlines in the review paper. Our | practitioner used the test before we had any evidence | that we lived in a water-damaged building, whereas the | paper is specifically focused on determining cause of | illness after exposure to a water-damaged building. | kathysgeek wrote: | I highly recommend reading about it at | https://www.survivingmold.com/resources-for- | patients/diagnos... | | You can do a visual contrast sensitivity test online: | https://www.survivingmold.com/store/online-vcs-screening | | I have been treated by Dr Shoemaker and am currently being | treated by Dr Scott McMahon who is an expert researcher in | the field. Call him and set up a consultation. There is a | fair amount of blood tests but your symptom history and VCS | tests will go a long way toward diagnosis. | | YMMV, but after initial treatment I felt 40% better in 6 | months. Ensuring a clean environment is critical. It took | 5+ years of treatment to reach the 90% improvement. | | However, each person is unique. Younger and less | genetically susceptible patients improve much quicker. | | https://www.survivingmold.com/shoemaker-protocol/list-of- | cer... | computer23 wrote: | Ritchie Shoemaker is a quack with a long disciplinary | history: | | https://quackwatch.org/cases/board/med/shoemaker/consent/ | | Unlike mold-caused asthma and allergies, "Toxic mold illness" | and CIRS (Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome) are not | real conditions, as described in a recent Australian report: | | https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/biotoxins-i. | .. | | "Toxic mold illness" is a popular scam among the grifters who | market themselves as integrative/functional/naturopathic: | https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-is-the-internet-so- | obsesse... | | The CDC warned against urine testing promoted by the "toxic | mold" scammers: | https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a7.htm | throwuwu wrote: | Remember to get your heatpump cleaned | darken wrote: | +1 ours got _so_ moldy inside. Especially after the hardwood | installers ran them while sanding. I 've gotten quite good at | deep cleaning and sterilizing them, but it's a long and messy | process. | david422 wrote: | Is there something that needs to be done other than the | filters? | baobabKoodaa wrote: | Yes. The mesh grid and all the plastics around it. It's not | really possible to deep clean without specific equipment. | 12bits wrote: | This is oddly relevant to my recently discovered disaster in the | basement bathroom. | dav43 wrote: | They should send this to every landlord in Singapore that gives | zero fs about tenant safety. | | It's a national disgrace. | ccampbell wrote: | Mold is being remediated in my house as I type this. My wife and | I have been dealing with insidious symptoms for years (brain fog, | joint pain, anxiety, muscle stiffness, balance issues, | neuropathy, increased ADHD, and more). Only recently did we | discover that there was black mold (Stachybotrys chartarum) in | both our bedroom and in the air supply trunk located after the | air handler. The bedroom mold was caused by an inactive leak that | must have been there before we ever bought the house. The air | handler was due to poor installation alongside high humidity. | | We've already noticed a huge decrease in symptoms about 10 days | after the air handler was pulled. | bqmjjx0kac wrote: | Wow, that is kind of terrifying! How did you find the mold? | ccampbell wrote: | I've seen about every doctor possible and finally got a | diagnosis of Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS). The doctor | said many of his patients suffer from mold. He recommended a | whole home mold inspection. | | The inspector only discovered mold in the air handler itself, | which isn't too uncommon. We could have just cleaned the | handler coils but decided to pull the entire thing just to be | sure. Only after it was pulled did we see about a 15 foot | long stretch of mold going directly into our ductwork. | | In the bedroom we were replacing our carpet with hardwood | floors and discovered a 10 foot mold stretch behind the | baseboards. | graphe wrote: | I suggest looking into an air quality sensor, plantower is | the best. Purple air uses them for the network. | https://www2.purpleair.com/ | | Methylene blue is worth looking into as a treatment as | well. Best of luck, I was brain fogged and inactive for | years not knowing my issues. | tinco wrote: | How does an air quality sensor help with finding mold? | jamiek88 wrote: | It doesn't. | | He's all over this thread with a very warped | understanding of mold and mold treatment with some | misunderstood NIH paper about Candida. | | He's recommending self prescribing dangerous MAOI | containing substances without acknowledging how easily | those can conflict with other drugs and diets. | | I wish these people would at least understand what they | are regurgitating from poorly understood websites. | | I've got people trying to give horse dewormer to my stage | 4 cancer friend too. | | It's infuriating. | sizzle wrote: | thanks for calling out that dangerous comment | graphe wrote: | The plantower can detect particle sizes including that of | mold. It won't tell you there's mold but it can tell you | about mold sized particles. I think it's PM10 but the | worst is 2.5 and less. | cjbgkagh wrote: | You might want to try and rule out Hypermobile Ehlers | Danlos Syndrome (hEDS) while you're at it. There is a huge | overlap in symptoms. Bear in mind the Beighton score has | high a false negative rate and the difference between HSD | and hEDS disappears whenever you look at the stats closely. | It appears that many mold and lyme disease symptoms are | triggers for pre-existing hEDS. | ccampbell wrote: | Yeah, I have EDS hypermobility also. Surprisingly, my | joint stability and muscle strength already seem better | just being out of the mold. | cjbgkagh wrote: | You might have some better luck with hEDS specific | treatments, low dose naltrexone, low dose modafinil, | supplemental T3 hormone, weightlifting if you can, | metformin and a very low sugar diet. And perhaps | supplemental Test and HGH. | user3939382 wrote: | Does anyone know of a real-time (analog or digital) detection | sensor for mold? All I've been able to find are kits that you buy | and snail mail samples to a lab which strikes me as a giant pain. | notslow wrote: | I don't know of anything, but will buy if one exists. Closest | thing that is out there are Indoor Air Quality (IAQ) detectors, | some of the expensive ones detect particles as small as mold | but the IAQ detectors can't tell you that it is mold, only that | particulates of a certain size are present. | Joel_Mckay wrote: | The issue is Fungi are everywhere, all the time, and without | exception (even feeding in nuclear disasters). They predate | most forms of life, majority are harmless or beneficial, and | the genetics vary widely. For example, Yeasts are just about | everywhere... | | I would recommend Paul Stamets books for their accessibility, | even if he is probably the weirdest eccentric of our time. | Seriously weird dude, but an expert on Fungi taxonomy without | question none the less. | | Around this time of year we get Amanita muscaria popping up in | the yard, and some very oddly behaved squirrels having a bad | day. | worthless-trash wrote: | When I heard "Paul Stamets" and "Fungus" together, my mind | went to star trek, I find that Stamets is inspired by a real- | life mycologist of the same name is very cool reference by | the ST writers. | Joel_Mckay wrote: | Sci Fi is always about the present, but the dude certainly | sounds like he is from another planet at times. It is good | people are more aware of his work , even if fiction greatly | underestimates how odd it is in real life =) | timschmidt wrote: | Characterizing Paul Stamets as weird or eccentric seems a bit | off. He's no more weird or eccentric than any other scientist | I've met. He speaks openly about an experience he had with | psychedelic mushrooms which he says cured his lifelong | stuttering, which sent him down the mycological rabbit hole. | He's worked extensively with the DoD researching | antimicrobial properties of fungi, his publications look | sound, and some of that work seems wildly beneficial for | cancer treatment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7agK0nkiZpA | user3939382 wrote: | He was a great guest on Rogan. I take Lion's Mane supplement | based on research he pointed to that turned out to be pretty | interesting. | digging wrote: | comment withdrawn. | dragonwriter wrote: | Animals and plants are the youngest, fungi are | significantly older, at least almost as old as the oldest | multicellular life. "Most forms of life" might be an | overstatement, still, depending on how you count. | digging wrote: | My mistake, you're correct, fungi are much older than | plants. Stupid of me to offer a correction without even a | cursory search to confirm what I thought I knew. | sizzle wrote: | can you take sample and look at it under a microscope maybe? | twodave wrote: | As another pointed out, from the fact sheet: | | > 2. There is no practical way to eliminate all mold and mold | spores in the indoor environment; the way to control indoor mold | growth is to control moisture. | | > 10. Molds can be found almost anywhere; they can grow on | virtually any substance, providing moisture is present. There are | molds that can grow on wood, paper, carpet, and foods. | | But I'd also add: | | 11. There are many kinds of mold, some more harmful than others. | Some are literally penicillin. Some just smell musty, but don't | pose a threat. Some can cause severe health problems. The only | way to be certain what type of mold you have is to have it tested | in a lab. | | 12. DO NOT try to clean mold yourself. If you try to do this | without knowing the proper procedures, you will spread the spores | all over your house and into your air conditioning system. | Generally every house has mold in it, somewhere. Exposed molds | should be remediated, but don't go tearing apart your house to | find mold (you'll definitely find it if your house/apartment is | over a certain age). | | 13. Bleach doesn't kill mold. It only turns it white. Hydrogen | Peroxide does kill it. You can by concentrated hydrogen peroxide | from a lab supply store (we buy 35% and dilute it to 3.5% for | everyday cleaning). Spray it onto surfaces in a fine mist (don't | soak things) and leave it for 5 minutes. At this point it's | mostly stabilized into water that you can wipe away with a paper | towel or cloth. | | 14. Insurance companies really don't like paying for mold | remediation. We recently uncovered some (Aspergillus, the | Penicillin mold) below our kitchen sink and had to rip out a | bunch of cabinets to get it all cleaned out. It coincided with a | leak we found in our garbage disposal unit, and our insurance | company (Front Line) is now attempting to intimidate us into | dropping our claim by using words like fraud and sending forensic | inspectors to our house. | | The best advice I can give is to take pictures before you think | you need to, especially when it comes to moisture-related damage | and repairs. We had a plumber come fix our garbage disposal, | never suspecting we'd be filing an insurance claim, so we didn't | record as much as we could have or take photos of the initial | issue, and that may end up costing us. | Metacelsus wrote: | >13. Bleach doesn't kill mold. It only turns it white. Hydrogen | Peroxide does kill it. You can by concentrated hydrogen | peroxide from a lab supply store (we buy 35% and dilute it to | 3.5% for everyday cleaning). Spray it onto surfaces in a fine | mist (don't soak things) and leave it for 5 minutes. At this | point it's mostly stabilized into water that you can wipe away | with a paper towel or cloth. | | Bleach _does_ kill mold but the concentrations of bleach | required will also damage the surfaces that it 's on. | bluGill wrote: | Bleach can kill mold, but often will not even in high | concentrations as mold can live in things that do not absorb | bleach. | soperj wrote: | > (Aspergillus, the Penicillin mold) | | the Penicillin mold would be Penicillium, Aspergillus is used | to make Soya Sauce and Sake. | bregma wrote: | Aspergillis is commonly known as mildew. It's black. | twodave wrote: | Thanks for the clarification. I'm mostly repeating from | (sometimes bad) memory my conversation with a mold inspector | from a few weeks ago. | beardedwalleye wrote: | regarding 12 -- some mold remediation procedures are relatively | DIY friendly once you have a bit of knowledge on the subject | | regarding 13 - now I'm confused. we're telling people how to | clean mold when in #12 we're telling people not to clean mold. | the whole piece here implying it can just be wiped away should | be removed. simplifying mold cleanup like this is what leads to | bad DIY jobs. | twodave wrote: | That isn't what I meant to imply, but you're not wrong. We | use the peroxide as a general cleaner, which both sanitizes | and also kills mold on surfaces. | aarongray wrote: | Killing the mold isn't the problem. That's the easy part. | Denaturing or removing the mycotoxins is the problem. The mold | doesn't make you sick, it's the mycotoxins that some molds | excrete that make you sick. | | Look at this study that used gamma irradiation, detergent / | bleach wash, and steam cleaning to test as ways to remove mold | mycotoxins on paper, cloth, wood, and carpet. Unfortunately | none of these techniques worked to inactivate mycotoxins, with | two exceptions. A detergent / bleach wash worked to inactivate | the mycotoxins on paper and cloth, but not on carpet or | untreated wood. So porous surfaces must by physically removed | and trashed to get rid of the mycotoxins. If you cannot | physically remove it (like untreated wood that is a part of | your houses' foundation), you must physically sand the mold off | while using a HEPA vacuum to clean it all up. | | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15238314/ | sokka_h2otribe wrote: | Could you epoxy seal everything? | aarongray wrote: | Sealing works well if there is not visible mold growth on | the item. So like think about sealing an art canvas in a | home that had mold in it, but the art canvas was in the | living room and the mold colony was in the bathroom under | the shower. In that case, any sort of light sealant would | trap any possible residual mycotoxins on the canvas so they | will no longer float around the air in the home. | | But if you have mold growing on unpainted wood joists, for | example, because of a plumbing leak, you can't just paint | over the mold colony on those joists with a sealant, | because it may not penetrate deep enough into the wood, and | you can't paint the backside of that joist where it touches | the floor / ceiling, and so the mold often will just | continue to grow and grow around your sealant. Many paints | marketed as mold killers and sealers are totally | ineffective at stopping the problem in scenarios like this. | darken wrote: | Just a warning to anyone reading this that 35% lab grade | hydrogen peroxide can be VERY dangerous, so I'd just stick to | the 2% drug store stuff unless you really know what you're | doing. | | High purity hydrogen peroxide has been used as a rocket fuel | since it's such a great oxidizer. | mgaunard wrote: | I love mold, really improved my linking times. | MavisBacon wrote: | Mold exposure is no joke. I lived in a rented apartment that was | flooded badly during Hurricane Sandy (and I was on the 4th | floor!). Within a few days of the storm passing I was emailing my | landlord, concerned that he apparently hadn't begun doing | anything to reduce likelihood of mold growth. A few weeks later | gives us the go ahead to move back in, and within weeks of that I | rapidly began developing symptoms. | | Initially looked like severe allergies but then I started | coughing up blood, waking up gasping for breath, really bad | nausea and other GI issues. I was already pissed off with | management at this apartment so we moved out about 4 months after | the hurricane. While moving out we found all this black mold | hiding behind furniture and in corners. Took pictures and then | made a point to do mold air quality test before handing over the | keys. Saw my PCP who had been overseeing my care the whole time, | probably dozens of visits, and mentioned what I found. He then | had zero doubt that the mold was causing everything | | He ordered a blood test that shows the immune system's response | to mold and it indicated my body was dealing with quite a bit of | it. The air tests showed the presence of 3 types/quantities of | toxigenic mold and correlated with blood tests | | I think it took nearly two years for me to fully recover after | moving out of the apartment. Was at least fortunate that all of | that documentation allowed me to get a settlement. I had | literally emailed the landlord saying I have asthma and the | apartment must be safe for me to move back into. I now do mold | air tests before I move anywhere | | Oddly the house we are about to move into passed the mold air | test and then we found a ton of mold in the insulation once we | ripped all the drywall out of what is going to be my bedroom | 4oo4 wrote: | What do you use to test for mold? | MavisBacon wrote: | I use companies licensed in mold remediation and testing. If | you live in a fairly populated area and google "mold air | testing in (x city)" you should hopefully find something. | It's strange to me how infrequently these services are | utilized. My realtor, who is one of the most experienced in | the state even wasn't sure who to go to for this when I first | asked | starkparker wrote: | There's some care to take here, especially depending on | state licensing requirements. In some places it's | particularly easy or low risk to present fraudulent results | or interpretations of results on air tests so they can | pitch expensive but unnecessary mitigation. National and | regional chains often provide licensing cover for, and set | quotas on, operators that enable some of this scamming. | | One way to vet a mold tester is to go through a property | management or landlords' association, even if you're not | either of those things (even if you're a renter!). They | often refer or have a list of vetted local contractors | publicly available. Nobody likes wasting money on property | less than a landlord. | MavisBacon wrote: | 100%. for this reason it can be ideal to go with a | company that only does testing, not remediation. In | smaller markets, though, you might be forced to go | through a company that does remediation as well. Had to | do it recently but they were honest and helpful, gave us | a clean rating | aarongray wrote: | HERTSMI-2 is the most accurate. Often houses will pass air | spore tests but HERTSMI-2 will catch the problem. It isn't | necessary to do an ERMI - that tests for ALL molds in your | house. You only need to test for Mycotoxin producing molds, | which the HERTSMI-2 does. | | This is the kit I recommend for testing for mold: | https://www.envirobiomics.com/product/hertsmi-2/ | | Only costs $130. Buy the Swiffer kit. Vacuum is not as | accurate. Clean the whole house, then wait 2-4 weeks, then | use the Swiffer kit to collect dust that has settled in the | bedrooms and living room. Don't do kitchen or bathrooms. | | Interpreting a HERTSMI-2: | | 0-8: Excellent | | 9-10: Good | | 11-15: Possibly dangerous. Deep clean the whole house, | especially locations that are rarely cleaned and have settled | dust like the tops of ceiling fans, door frames, blinds, etc. | Wait 2-4 weeks and retest. If the score is still 11 or above, | you have a significant mold problem that needs to be found | and remediated by professionals. | | 16-50: Dangerous. You have a significant mold problem that | needs to be found and remediated by professionals. | wahnfrieden wrote: | I read a detailed account from a non-anon former Apple employee | (I can get the link to share) who was similarly sick from per | the evidence strong chemical fumes they were ejecting from | their factories nearby some of the employee housing. No follow | up or accountability and several reasons why they were allowed | to operate that way perhaps (besides other team dysfunction). | Just terrible stuff like this seems to happen regardless of a | biz's rep w general population and dismissed from attention if | it ever receives it | | NY and Ontario landlords and I'm sure elsewhere have a high | tolerance for leaving terrible mold situations in rentals, I | know someone who had permanent nerve damage and a condition for | life from how the black mold behind her shower that the | landlord wouldn't fix and the state wouldn't help resolve | sizzle wrote: | would love a link to read more, thanks for sharing! | wahnfrieden wrote: | I'm sorry I replied on twitter a couple months ago and | they've deleted the posts. I followed them and could find | that way maybe but don't want to dox them now that they've | taken it down. They couldn't find journalist interest and I | tried to refer one. I have no affiliation / authority over | this second hand info of course. | | To clarify, they were not a factory worker, they were | corporate (not that it makes it better but it means that | exposure to stuff wouldn't have been a part of their | employment agreement) and the root cause was that it saved | money | failrate wrote: | It tested negative, because that mold was still trapped in the | space within the drywall. | liampulles wrote: | The golden rule to a long-lived healthy building is to keep | everything as dry as possible. | aarongray wrote: | If anyone is reading this and you think you have mold illness, | lyme disease, or fibromyalgia, read Toxic, by Neil Nathan MD. | This doctor has been treating patients for decades, and it is the | gold standard for how to diagnose and treat the complex health | issues that arise from mold exposure. | | https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Toxicity-Multiple-Sensitivities... | plzeatmorechips wrote: | The EPA course seems reasonable and informative. | | My in-laws discovered mold in their home about four years ago | thanks to a tipoff from a psychic. They had their home inspected | once, and found nothing. They had their home inspected again and | mold was found in their air conditioning system. | | Since then, they've had multiple mold remediation companies come | in. | | * Removal and replacement of several interior walls | | * Covering of proximal structural timbers with proprietary anti- | mold spray | | * several rounds of professional cleaning, with various | proprietary blends of magical chemicals | | The symptoms my in-laws attribute to mold exposure have not | decreased. They've had maybe five or six mold remediation | specialists use tools of varying degrees of woo to scan the home. | My mother-in-law will set a pan of water overnight in random | places and send the water to a lab for testing--no mater where | she puts it, it almost always comes back positive (surprise). | | I fully believe my inlaws were and are the victim of mold | remediation scams. Coupled with their continued reliance on | psychics for life advice and their dismissal of mainstream health | (they never go to medical doctors) in favor of "functional | medicine" and chiropracty, they've dumped nearly 100k of their | retirement into trying to solve a problem that we have no direct | evidence is the cause of their symptoms. | | The story doesn't really have a happy ending. They're living with | us as they can't move into other constructions "because of the | VOCs" (our home isn't special, they just started living here | before they "learned" about VOCs). | | I'm not in a position to criticize any particular mold | remediation company or technique, I just wanted to share my | absurd reality in case it helps anyone else frame what they might | be going through themselves. There is a cottage industry of | various kinds of remediation scams, and many of them are outright | egregious. | sizzle wrote: | thanks for shining a light on this scummy industry and I hope | your in-laws come to their senses or you can insulate yourself | and loved ones from their inevitable downfall. | yinser wrote: | If you stop thinking about LLMs as AI, and more as an incredible | tool for doing retrieval I hope one day that when you see a | deeply informative post from a government site it comes standard | with a chat dialog so you can quickly ask your questions and be | directed to relevant chunks of information. | 0xbadcafebee wrote: | tl;dr | | - mold usually only significantly affects people prone to | respiratory infections or allergies. it's a lung irritant for | most people but once the mold is removed, the lungs typically | recover. when remediating mold, it's a good idea to have a | respirator and eye mask, mostly just to prevent irritation or | from breathing cleaning chemicals | | - you can never stop mold from being in your house, but you can | prevent it from growing. mold grows faster the hotter it is, and | typically grows at 55% humidity or higher. reduce humidity and | stop any dripping or standing water to prevent mold growth. to | reduce humidity you can use a dehumidifier or desiccants (better | for closets/drawers). increased air flow also helps prevent mold | (mold likes dark places without air flow and high humidity) | | - mold can be found in most central air systems/vents, it's not | surprising. but it will grow and cause health issues if the air | conditioning system is prone to water or high humidity. | | - the reason you need to remove mold even if you don't smell | it/it's not visible is mold breaks down organic matter, so it | will stain and/or destroy clothes, wood, leather, etc. | | - different molds have different behaviors. some can be killed | with just vinegar, but some need a more severe treatment. bleach, | other household products don't tend to work, because it doesn't | kill the root. | | - once a mold root gains hold in a permeable material, it's | pretty hard to kill the root, so you can kill the outer version | of it but it'll often just grow back. so if flooring/sheathing | like OSB gets mold, you'll probably need to scrap it. hard wood | can take longer for mold to grow on but once the roots are in the | wood, you'd need to remove the wood down to the root or it'll | grow back. | | - concrobium mold control is the best overall product for mold | control, as it can kill the mold and root and prevent mold from | regrowing on surfaces. if you find mold in hard to reach areas, a | dry fogger with concrobium is often the easiest solution | | - if it's not practical for you to reduce humidity or increase | airflow in a given space, keep your stuff in airtight plastic | bins. | dumbo-octopus wrote: | A friend of mine has a severely mentally damaged family member | who has decided it'd be a whole bunch of fun to have an indoor | swimming pool. She repeatedly opens all the taps in their | bathroom while arranging for all the water to spill everywhere, | and proceeds to splash around in it. This has been going in daily | for over a month now. | | The sad part is the family has at this point given up entirely on | correcting the behavior or even drying the house, and it's just a | matter of time before there's irreparable damage and severe | illnesses throughout. Even worse, it's a townhouse connected to | other houses the the left and right, I wouldn't be at all | surprised if the damage/sickenss spreads to the neighbors. | | High density living definitely has its downsides... | alexb_ wrote: | This person needs to be in a mental institution, not their | house. This is also closely related to the crime problems | people have with high-density living. The complete and utter | failure of our society to correctly put people away is not a | knock on "high density living", it's a symptom of the US | shutting down asylums and preventing people who are dangerous | to society from being locked away. | hunter2_ wrote: | When those decisions were made (to shut down asylums, etc.) | what techniques were intended to backfill the same need? Did | evidence suggest that something else (drugs at home?) would | be at least similarly effective and more humane? | doublespanner wrote: | No, there was controversy over mistreated patients in a | number of asylums. | | There were campaigns to close the asylums based on this, | but no real plan for what to replace them with. | boppo1 wrote: | I have black-colored mold that grows in one of my bathrooms on | the toilet bowl under the water's surface and on the tub/shower | curtain. I clean it, but it always comes back in 1-3 weeks. It | does not appear elsewhere. | | Any ideas? Is there a cheap test I can do on the water? | | I don't know if it's a danger or not. | kvdveer wrote: | Remove it with vinegar, it will stay away longer, although it | won't remove the root cause. | | The root cause is that you have a source of moisture there, | allowing these fungi to live. Maybe your toilet has a pin leak, | or that spot is a bit colder than the rest of your bathroom, | leading to moisture condensing there first. If you remove the | source of moisture, the mold will be gone too. | jascination wrote: | How do you clean it? I'm no expert, but I'd turn off the water | to the toilet then flush it till it's empty, then hit it with | some mould spray. I'd look at the water tank too (which should | now be empty) and give that a clean too. Read the instructions | on the sprays cos you're meant to leave them for 5-10mins to do | their work before you wash them off. Then turn your tap back on | and see how you go. | electrondood wrote: | I'm convinced the uptick in "gluten sensitivity" is actually | sensitivity to mold on grains. I often get a stuffy nose, and | then next-day brain fog after eating bread, anything with soy | sauce, etc. | | Had a complete allergy test panel and I have zero reactivity to | gluten, etc. | | Grains (especially flour and oats) are particularly susceptible | to mold contamination, and it's interesting to note that the US | allows significantly more mold contamination in grains [0] (see | Table 3). 5x higher Aflatoxin for all foods, 33% higher | Deoxynivalenol in bread, and ZERO maximum amount for Ochratoxin A | in any foods in the US. | | If you have problems eating grains in the US, it's very likely a | mold sensitivity, not anything related to gluten/gliadin. | | [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6163171/ | seanw444 wrote: | Very interesting. Thanks. | sizzle wrote: | I thought I was going crazy cause grains seriously mess me up | and got all the gluten sensitivity testing as well with no | reactivity. | | I just started avoiding most grain based carbs and as a result | my life is 100% better with none of the brain fog symptoms and | lethargy. | | The mold contamination is something I never really considered | and could explain a lot. Thanks for sharing! | atlgator wrote: | Isn't the gluten issue because farmers changed over to using | dwarf wheat to increase crop density? Dwarf wheat has more | gluten than traditional types. | faeriechangling wrote: | A sensitivity to grains can also be a sensitivity to | oligosaccharides... especially if you present with digestive | issues. Bread can cause multiple problems. | | I also don't think people are quite aware that part of the | reason gluten-free foods are so popular is they can help with | conditions that are not caused by gluten sensitivities as they | omit ingredients which cause multiple health problems. Multiple | of which were poorly understood at the time gluten free foods | exploded, which drove scepticism because people could not | understand why so many people were buying these foods if they | did not have celiac disease and often seemed to be often be | able to tolerate some amount of gluten. | | If you have food sensitivities I'd visit a doctor & do deep | research and do trial/error. | modeless wrote: | I wish there was a website where you could input your food | sensitivities and it would tell you what digestive | dysfunction you have. Personally I am sensitive to restaurant | pad thai and also tonkotsu ramen. Eating either of those will | guarantee prompt digestive problems for me. But I'm at a loss | to explain why those two things are bad. Especially the pad | thai when it's seemingly just another noodle dish. | jahsome wrote: | That exists, it's called social media. Just publicly post | "I suffer from x" and you'll summon a baker's dozen experts | to tell you "it's not x, it's y" in no time. | Aurornis wrote: | > Had a complete allergy test panel and I have zero reactivity | to gluten, etc. | | We don't currently have any accepted and reliable tests for the | condition known as gluten intolerance. | | Note that you can order celiac disease screening and you can | order certain gluten allergy testing, but gluten intolerance is | considered a third condition. You cannot currently order a test | for this, so the negative test results you received were likely | either for celiac disease or a traditional gluten allergy. | | Also, note that there are more compounds in grains that you can | be allergic to beyond gluten. Gluten gets the spotlight because | it was the hot topic for many years, but it's possible to be | fine with pure gluten but allergic to grains. | | It all gets confusing, but the important thing is to remember | that Celiac disease, gluten allergy, and gluten intolerance are | three separate conditions and excluding one does not mean you | can't have the others. It's also important to remember that | there are many more compounds in grains than just gluten. | | > If you have problems eating grains in the US, it's very | likely a mold sensitivity, not anything related to | gluten/gliadin. | | That's quite a logical leap without any evidence. For what it's | worth, I also have similar allergic reactions to grains but my | experience doesn't differ at all when I travel to the EU. | omgwtfbyobbq wrote: | I'm my experience, the blood tests for Celiac are also used | for Gluten Intolerance. | | If a blood test for Celiac is positive, the biopsy is | negative, and nothing else can account for your symptoms, and | removing gluten improved your symptoms, then you end up in | the Gluten Intolerant category. | yencabulator wrote: | Great reason to live in a semi-arid area I guess, mold just | doesn't grow here much. Current outdoor humidity is 26% and this | is the wet part of the year. | Eumenes wrote: | DampRid makes good product to supplement your dehumidifiers - | https://damprid.com/ ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-12-06 23:00 UTC)