[HN Gopher] Spoofing DNS records by abusing DHCP DNS dynamic upd...
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       Spoofing DNS records by abusing DHCP DNS dynamic updates
        
       Author : Terretta
       Score  : 145 points
       Date   : 2023-12-08 15:18 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.akamai.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.akamai.com)
        
       | andridk wrote:
       | I never would have guessed that so many data centers ran their
       | DHCP off of Microsoft Windows.
        
         | noobface wrote:
         | Active Directory and DHCP go hand-in-hand. Your Domain
         | Controllers aren't always your DHCP servers, but under a
         | certain scale, they very likely are.
        
           | forgotusername6 wrote:
           | If you create a brand new domain, it will automatically
           | configure it to be the DHCP server by default.
        
             | blakes wrote:
             | That's true of DNS, not DHCP. One has to specifically
             | install the DHCP role in a new AD domain.
        
           | EvanAnderson wrote:
           | I'm a 20+ year Windows sysadmin and I don't buy it. If you'd
           | said "Active Directory and DNS go hand-in-hand" I'd agree--
           | the coupling there is pretty tight (and it's a pain-in-the-
           | ass to run Active Directory with non-Microsoft DNS servers
           | being authoritative for the AD domain name). DHCP is a lot
           | less tightly coupled.
        
         | nfeutry wrote:
         | I find this number also very surprinsing but it's not really
         | 40% of datacenter, it's _40% of the networks monitored by
         | Akama_
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | Yeah, I thought that too. Akamai seems to be popular with
           | corporations.
        
         | krylon wrote:
         | Microsoft's Active Directory, DHCP server, and DNS server
         | integrate very closely. When a domain member gets a dynamic IP
         | address, the DHCP server will inform the DNS server to update
         | its record for that host.
         | 
         | Many companies are, let's say a bit lazy - when use an Active
         | Directory domain anyway, you might as well use the DHCP and DNS
         | servers, too, they handle replication and failover very
         | smoothly. (I am not a big fan of Windows, but that part has
         | worked pretty well in my experience.)
         | 
         | You can get a similar mechanism to work between BIND and ISC
         | DHCPD; it's not a lot of work, but with Zeroconf/mDNS it is
         | less useful than it used to be.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | Not the colo themselves running it, "in" datacenters. And more
         | accurately, in networks in datacenters.
         | 
         | Colocation means many clients, and in any given colo there's
         | almost certainly someone running a Windows AD + Microsoft DHCP
         | box, meaning it's "in" that datacenter. I'm surprised as many
         | as 40% of networks still have that tech, but that's enterprise
         | for you. Point being, though, it's likely in well more than 40%
         | of datacenters.
        
         | irq-1 wrote:
         | In the 90s Microsoft tied their dominant Exchange/Outlook to
         | Active Directory which depends on DNS/DHCP.
        
           | steve1977 wrote:
           | Active Directory was officially only released in 2000 though.
        
         | alacode wrote:
         | Microsoft and Google together are trying to control the largest
         | spectrum of computer usage globally.
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | > spoof sensitive DNS records, resulting in varying consequences
       | from credential theft to full Active Directory domain compromise
       | 
       | It sounds insane to me that the security of anything would depend
       | on the validity of a DNS record, but I vaguely remember that AD
       | is extremely dependent on DNS configuration
        
         | blincoln wrote:
         | I would think in a typical AD domain that was built using
         | reasonably good practices (maybe even the default settings) in
         | the last 5 (maybe even 10) years, DNS changes alone wouldn't be
         | able to directly result in the compromise of any Microsoft
         | products, or third-party products that authenticate against AD.
         | One or more cryptographic mechanisms (TLS certificate
         | verification, SMB signing, etc.) should prevent other devices
         | from trusting the system with the spoofed name.
         | 
         | That having been said, if the domain has relaxed security to
         | support legacy systems, or was built 20 years ago and
         | incrementally upgraded to newer Windows versions ever since,
         | this technique seems like it could be used to compromise the
         | domain. For example, if NTLM auth is enabled, but signing is
         | not required, it seems like this would allow a network-wide
         | version of NTLM relaying attacks. Those are usually done using
         | subnet-specific name spoofing, so it would be a big increase in
         | scope.
         | 
         | Additionally, in most large enterprise environments, there will
         | be at least a few third-party products that are set up
         | (deliberately or by default) to operate in a way that could be
         | exploited using this technique. Web applications that
         | authenticate using cleartext HTTP, network appliances with
         | telnet or other unencrypted sevices, email that's exchanged
         | over cleartext SMTP, etc., on the assumption that an attacker
         | would have to already have privileged access to something to
         | capture the information sent over that channel. I suspect there
         | would usually be a way to exploit one of those things in a way
         | that would eventually lead to compromise of the AD domain.
         | 
         | e.g. the organization uses Cisco network hardware configured to
         | back up their configurations to a TFTP server every night. The
         | attacker exploits the DHCP DNS vulnerability to pretend to be
         | the TFTP server and captures the device configurations. They
         | decrypt reversibly-encrypted network appliance administrator
         | passwords, or crack the hashes if they're stored in a non-
         | reversible format. Then they use those credentials to alter the
         | TACACS configuration on one or more network devices to send
         | credentials to their own system when someone tries to log on.
         | TACACS is set up to authenticate to AD, so now the attacker has
         | a bunch of AD credentials that belong to network
         | administrators.
        
           | sonicanatidae wrote:
           | >I would think in a typical AD domain that was built using
           | reasonably good practices
           | 
           | One would think that, but I literally cannot enumerate the
           | number of Domains that were setup by...let's just say, people
           | that had no business setting up domains. Default settings are
           | partially defined during the install.
        
           | jiggawatts wrote:
           | Unfortunately the security defaults haven't meaningfully
           | changed since 2003!
           | 
           | The more advanced protections introduced over the last two
           | decades are mostly off by default.
           | 
           | As a random example, a trust established between two AD
           | forests using only Windows Server 2022 domain controllers
           | will default to RC4 encryption instead of AES!
           | 
           | It takes a lot of thankless work to properly secure an AD
           | domain, and often it's a impossible task because of
           | incompatibilities with - _checks list_ - Microsoft software
           | released as recently as 2020.
        
             | sonicanatidae wrote:
             | This man/woman/smallanimal SysAdmins!
        
         | uxp8u61q wrote:
         | Are you aware of how letsencrypt operates, for example? With a
         | single spoofed dns record, you can get an https certificate. A
         | whole lot of infrastructure relies on DNS for security.
        
           | morelisp wrote:
           | You need to spoof at least three records (for the same
           | domain) to get a certificate.
        
             | deathanatos wrote:
             | ...no? Or what are the other two records? If I can control
             | example.com, I can use an http-01 challenge to obtain a
             | cert for example.com.
             | 
             | I can't do a dns-01 challenge (that would require _acme-
             | challenge records, although even then, I'm still up to 2,
             | not 3, records), but I don't have to do a necessarily have
             | to do a dns-01 just to get _a_ cert...
        
               | Arnavion wrote:
               | Even in the dns-01 case you only need the one _acme-
               | challenge record to *get* the cert. You only need more
               | records to be able to do something meaningful with your
               | cert, eg A/AAAA records that point to your malicious
               | server and serve that cert.
        
               | EAtmULFO wrote:
               | Best practice is to use CAA records, which would help
               | reduce the impact unless the CAA specifies letsencrypt.
        
               | jiggawatts wrote:
               | It's a terrible practice designed to build a moat for
               | billion-dollar corporations feeling scared of free Let's
               | Encrypt certificates turning off the money printer.
        
               | EAtmULFO wrote:
               | Please google "CAA DNS record"
        
               | H8crilA wrote:
               | To be fair these days you need to spoof it in at least
               | two locations around the world - they will query you from
               | at least two locations. But yeah, it is bootstrapping
               | security out of seemingly nowhere.
        
               | morelisp wrote:
               | If you can control example.com actually on the root NS
               | you should get the cert for example.com! That's not
               | spoofing, that's owning.
               | 
               | If you can control _the record seen in one datacenter_
               | for example.com, you don 't get the cert. They check the
               | root NSs from three DCs.
        
           | cortesoft wrote:
           | There is a difference between spoofing a record for a
           | specific DNS server and spoofing a global DNS request.
        
             | CaliforniaKarl wrote:
             | Maybe, but the top thread just said "the validity of a DNS
             | record".
        
           | mike_hock wrote:
           | It's beyond me how letsencrypt hasn't been shitlisted, yet.
        
             | NavinF wrote:
             | Why? What's your preferred alternative and why is it more
             | secure?
        
         | MPSimmons wrote:
         | >It sounds insane to me that the security of anything would
         | depend on the validity of a DNS record
         | 
         | Ahem. "The /etc/exports Configuration File" -
         | https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp...
        
       | rafaelturk wrote:
       | 40% of datacenters? Akamai are you serious about your marketing
       | stunts?
        
         | forbiddenlake wrote:
         | The HN title[1] was editorialized. The actual figure, used
         | twice in the article, specifies it is talking about data center
         | networks monitored by Akamai.
         | 
         | [1] As of this comment: "Spoofing DNS records abusing Microsoft
         | DHCP server running in 40% of datacenters"
        
           | Terretta wrote:
           | I'd argue it's more likely to be in a datacenter than in 40%
           | of data center networks, since if even one network in the
           | colo ran it, that would mean it was in that datacenter.
           | 
           | Remember, this isn't server share, it's share of DCs that
           | have even one Windows Server with AD and Microsoft DHCP. For
           | large commercial colos, you can assume that's effectively
           | 100% of colos.
           | 
           | And with 85% of SMB being Microsoft shops, one can
           | extrapolate for small colos, though we'd hope of that
           | majority that are still on AD they either use Azure AD or run
           | AD in the office and Linux in the colo.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | If you think Windows Server isn't running in 40% of data
         | centers, have I got news for you.
        
           | krylon wrote:
           | I don't like it very much, but every single small-to-medium
           | non-IT company I have seen runs on Windows. Sometimes they
           | require Windows specifically because of third-party software
           | (SCADA/industrial automation for example), more often it's
           | just that Windows is the "default" that people know and use,
           | due to network effects.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | Indeed - it doesn't take much to be in a datacentre. One
           | server in thousands could be running it and it's "in the
           | datacentre".
        
       | tsujamin wrote:
       | Adding the '*' record to ADIDNS during a penetration test and
       | watching auth attempts for mistyped domains roll in is always
       | good fun
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | How are folks managing AD users and computers with so many remote
       | employees? Does AD still have value vs a more decentralized
       | "BYOD" approach, especially with heterogenous OSs?
       | 
       | AD used to be the lynchpin for policies and SSO via GP, NTLM and
       | file shares, but these days those are all web apps or cloud
       | drives and AD has little control over them.
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | SAML extends AD-based authentication to any external
         | app/service that can use it.
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | Sure, ADFS has been a thing for forever, but I don't think
           | that is a good value prop for AD. Most online office suites
           | and SSO platforms can provide SAML, and with a nicer way of
           | managing users and groups.
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | AD is like Jira: it's not great, but loads of things
             | integrate with it. You can do SAML or OIDC for more modern
             | logins, and you can speak LDAP/AD for other systems, and
             | all your Windows logins will just work. Also, your skills
             | acquired 20 years ago on AD are still relevant, which is
             | why as an IT head you'll probably stick with AD.
        
               | steve1977 wrote:
               | Not that SAML or OIDC are actually any better.
               | 
               | They're a bit like YAML or JSON vs XML in my experience.
        
         | Unfrozen0688 wrote:
         | Office 365 + Azure AD/Entra + onprem sync + Intune
        
       | kramerger wrote:
       | > We reported our findings to Microsoft, but a fix is not
       | planned.
       | 
       | The old Microsoft is back then?
        
         | stackskipton wrote:
         | As former Windows Sysadmin, any fix is likely to break
         | environments and Microsoft doesn't want to deal with it. DHCP
         | feature was legacy thing for NT4 migrations but Microsoft never
         | turned it off because almost no sysadmins know what they are
         | actually doing. Fix seems to be just disable DHCP DNS
         | registration.
         | 
         | Also, Microsoft is over Windows Server environments. They have
         | gone full cloud and could care less about Windows OSes. They
         | continue to develop them but it's clear it's switched from
         | critical business unit to a side business for them.
        
           | jahsome wrote:
           | As they should. I wish Windows Server a swift and
           | excruciating death.
           | 
           | That's unfair. I actually don't hate Windows Server in and of
           | itself, but I loathe the way people use it, and I dare say
           | they're encouraged to do so.
           | 
           | I think the worst part is the lack of incentive to actually
           | learn about the OS, or how to use it, let alone holistic best
           | practices for system administration. Why bother expanding
           | your skills, when everything you need is just an RDP and EXE
           | away!
           | 
           | Windows Server is to system administration as WordPress is to
           | software engineering. It's extremely powerful for beginners
           | and it'll _probably_ work for a good chunk of what people
           | want.
           | 
           | Both are often driven by incessant manual tweaking, until one
           | day it finally works, and then hoping no one makes a sudden
           | movement. And good luck consistently replicating any effort
           | from one environment to another in either case.
           | 
           | However easy it might _seem_ easy at first, it's very quickly
           | going to start hurting. And of course there are "correct"
           | ways of doing them both, but: why on Earth would you bother
           | when it's so damn easy to do it the naughty way?
        
             | steve1977 wrote:
             | > think the worst part is the lack of incentive to actually
             | learn about the OS, or how to use it, let alone holistic
             | best practices for system administration.
             | 
             | I have been out of Windows systems engineering for a while,
             | but this was certainly not the case say 20 years ago.
             | 
             | The operating systems and best practices were well
             | documented (via official Microsoft Press books) and back
             | then MCSE certification actually let you learn some in
             | depth stuff (if you wanted to).
        
               | jahsome wrote:
               | Thank you for the perspective. It's probably true I've
               | just never found myself in the right crowd.
               | Interestingly, I started at a dysfunctional Windows shop
               | 20 years ago. I spent a couple years there, and left for
               | the Linux world where I fell in love with open source and
               | never looked back... That was until recently when I ended
               | back up in Microsoft land, somewhat inadvertently.
               | 
               | I'm sure that documentation you describe still exists.
               | The Microsoft docs site is pretty thorough. But every
               | time I have personally found myself involved with
               | windows, things have been an enormous mess of string and
               | bubblegum.
               | 
               | Linux shops are certainly not bastions of consistency,
               | but I've just found better success with git-driven
               | automation in Linux environments than I've ever
               | experienced with my own senses in any Windows shop.
               | 
               | I firmly believe it boils down to the fact that RDP
               | enables laziness out of the box, whereas linux requires
               | clearing a few hurdles to make things quite as easy. So
               | there is a tangible incentive to do things the
               | sustainable, "right way" and not limp along with short-
               | term quick and easy fixes.
        
             | EvanAnderson wrote:
             | Background: Unix (SCO and XENIX) and later Linux user and
             | sysadmin (Slackware in '92), long-time Windows sysadmin for
             | the "day job" (since NT 3.51).
             | 
             | > I think the worst part is the lack of incentive to
             | actually learn about the OS, or how to use it, let alone
             | holistic best practices for system administration.
             | 
             | Funnily, this is how I feel about Linux-based OS's. Being
             | that there's only a single "distribution" of Windows I can
             | be confident that time I spend learning about various
             | "contrivances" Microsoft devices (service management,
             | configuration storage, etc) are going to apply to any
             | Windows machine I work on.
             | 
             | OTOH, every Unix and Linux distro has its own set of
             | contrivances for configuration, service management (though
             | systemd being rammed down everybody's throats has in some
             | ways changed this), filesystem hierarchy, etc. I pushed for
             | RHEL for "day job" deployments, for years, because I knew
             | there would be stability in the product that was similar to
             | Windows. (Debian is a close second.) Otherwise, Linux
             | distros feel like the wild west.
             | 
             | Knowledge about the underlying architecture of NT going all
             | the way back to the original 3.1 release still applies. The
             | OS has been updated, for sure, but there's a strong lineage
             | and adherence to design principles going all the way back
             | to the start.
             | 
             | People who use any technology w/o understanding it are
             | infuriating.
             | 
             | > Both are often driven by incessant manual tweaking, until
             | one day it finally works...
             | 
             | Again, that's how I see a lot of Linux shops. I don't think
             | Windows makes it any easier to have immature sysadmin
             | practices.
             | 
             | My Windows environments are deployed from unattended
             | installs, configured by Group Policy, and manual tweaking
             | on individual VMs is highly discouraged. If I were
             | deploying Linux at scale I'd be using configuration
             | management tools there the same way.
        
               | jahsome wrote:
               | I think your perspective is totally correct, thank you
               | for sharing it and checking my vitriol.
               | 
               | The only thing I would challenge is that the pain of
               | inconsistency (from distros to stacks, e.g. systemd,
               | etc.) is exactly what I believe drives people to
               | desire/aspire to automation and strive for the
               | consistency.
               | 
               | That inconsistency, while absolutely frustrating at
               | times, also forces users (often against their will) to
               | understand the core concepts behind the software they're
               | using or managing rather than memorizing GUI workflows.
               | 
               | In my opinion, a number of Windows folks seem to take
               | consistency for granted, and become all too reliant on
               | it. They get comfy and have little clue how to overcome
               | adversity when it rears it's ugly head.
               | 
               | I don't think that sort of laziness is unique to the
               | Windows world, but I do think Windows makes it easier to
               | fail upwards. It's much harder to hide incompetence in a
               | Linux environment, at least in my experience.
               | 
               | In other words: if you'll excuse my reductiveness, what
               | doesn't kill, gives strength. Or at least hardens one's
               | resolve.
               | 
               | Honestly my biggest gripe boils down to how easy RDP
               | makes it to form bad habits, and how there is little
               | (short term) consequence for operating in reactive ways
               | which lack reproducibility because "I'll just pop into
               | the server and click around for a sec"
               | 
               | Windows with RDP is faster, and it is easier. System
               | admin that way (mostly) works. Best of all, for the
               | majority of those who grew up in the PC age, it's
               | familiar.
               | 
               | But I unfortunately don't trust a lot of my colleagues
               | past and present not to abuse it.
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | > It's much harder to hide incompetence in a Linux
               | environment, at least in my experience.
               | 
               | curl | bash enters the chat.
               | 
               | Seriously, though, junior sysadmins (or devs pretending
               | to be sysadmins) are gonna do what they do regardless of
               | the underlying substrate. For Windows sysadmins it might
               | be clicking-around doing one-off "fixes". For Linux
               | admins it's shitting-up production boxes with compilers
               | and dev tools or adding sketchy untrustworthy package
               | repos.
               | 
               | > Honestly my biggest gripe boils down to how easy RDP
               | makes it to form bad habits, and how there is little
               | (short term) consequence for operating in reactive ways
               | which lack reproducibility because "I'll just pop into
               | the server and click around for a sec"
               | 
               | > Windows with RDP is faster, and it is easier. System
               | admin that way (mostly) works. Best of all, for the
               | majority of those who grew up in the PC age, it's
               | familiar.
               | 
               | It's the same w/ SSH on Linux machines, though. Junior
               | people think it's easier to make one-off changes. Senior
               | people realize that every one-off change is a gamble with
               | the future. It's part of the culture and maturity of the
               | individual and of the organization they're working in.
        
           | Dalewyn wrote:
           | >could care less about Windows OSes.
           | 
           | So you're saying they do care?
           | 
           | (I'm just giving you a hard time. The correct expression is "
           | _could not_ care less about  <x>".)
        
         | EvanAnderson wrote:
         | The "fix" is to follow best practices established back in
         | Windows Server 2003. A lot of people aren't, apparently-- big
         | surprise.
         | 
         | It's a little disappointing a default configuration results in
         | a less secure deployment (and Microsoft has done a lot to
         | standardize on more secure-by-default configurations) but it's
         | not like this was some great unknown zero-day.
        
       | ksjskskskkk wrote:
       | if you know all you can do with a default AD install, you won't
       | even bother with dns poisoning.
        
       | arcza wrote:
       | Pretty much a non story and hence MS didn't bother entertaining
       | Akamai's rage bait post here. A lot more things can go wrong with
       | a default AD install as others said. Yawn.
        
         | spookie wrote:
         | Ever the more reason to fix it? It sounds as if nothing is
         | fixed if it is _that_ bad.
        
       | pbhjpbhj wrote:
       | Actual title for me: "Spoofing DNS Records by Abusing DHCP DNS
       | Dynamic Updates".
       | 
       | A "by" in the title is necessary IMO.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | Narrowing to Microsoft AD DHCP seemed MUCH more important.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | If you want to say what you think is important about an
           | article, that's fine, but please do it by adding a comment to
           | the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field
           | with everyone else's: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&p
           | age=0&prefix=false&so...
           | 
           | " _Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or
           | linkbait; don 't editorialize._"
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | H8crilA wrote:
       | Another fun exercise is to announce IPv6 in a network that's
       | designed to be IPv4 only (IPv6 is announced via its own protocol
       | rather than via DHCP, though you can also use DHCPv6 if you want
       | to). High chances that the switches will not drop the
       | announcement and that hosts will configure IPv6, then try to use
       | it without the user knowing.
        
         | CaliforniaKarl wrote:
         | Your post is incomplete. Instead of saying "announce IPv6", it
         | might be better to say "announce IPv6 with SLAAC" or "announce
         | SLAAC-supporting IPv6".
         | 
         | If, in the Route Announcements, you enable the M flag, then
         | that disables SLAAC on your subnet, forcing folks to use DHCPv6
         | for an IP allocation (or use a static IPv6 address).
         | 
         | Besides, that "fun exercise" is what ISPs often do: For
         | example, Comcast turned on IPv6 without any warning (at least,
         | no warning pushed to customers). In my case, I (the user)
         | didn't notice it was in use until I checked, which I think is
         | exactly how it is supposed to work for the end-user.
        
         | kokx wrote:
         | As a pentester that did exactly this in many corporate
         | networks: this is extremely effective. Just announce with a
         | router advertisement that there is a DHCPv6 server and start
         | handing out link-local IPv6 addresses while you specify your
         | own system as DNS-server.
         | 
         | Clients (both Windows and Linux) will prefer the DNS-server
         | specified through IPv6 over the one from IPv4. Then you can
         | spoof any DNS record and capture juicy NTLM hashes flying
         | through the network or relay their authentication and get a
         | free authenticated connection.
         | 
         | This is most effective in networks that were designed for only
         | IPv4 and didn't consider IPv6 at all. But it is also effective
         | in some networks that do use IPv6.
         | 
         | Mitigations? Either disable the IPv6-stack on all systems, or
         | configure your switches to block the router advertisements and
         | do not allow DHCPv6 traffic to the wrong systems.
        
       | mise_en_place wrote:
       | NetBIOS needs to go away. It made sense when computers were
       | linked up in a token ring setup. There are way better and more
       | modern/secure methods of service discovery.
        
       | anonymousiam wrote:
       | Microsoft seems to either ignore the security repercussions of
       | their design decisions, or more cynically, they deliberately
       | introduce attack vectors.
       | 
       | Without details (because the article has withheld them), but
       | given the title and overview, this attack makes use of
       | Microsoft's "extensions" to the DHCP protocol that allow updates
       | to DNS records from hosts with dynamically assigned IP addresses.
       | This began as a Windows only thing, but it's now supported by
       | some other DHCP servers as well. It always seemed odd and wrong
       | to me that DNS could be updated as a result of a DHCP assignment.
       | IMHO the correct way to do this (assuming dynamic address
       | assignment is desired), is via DHCP reservation. The admin would
       | (manually) choose an IP address for a particular host's MAC
       | address, and also (manually) add a permanent DNS record for the
       | chosen IP address.
       | 
       | Given the vast number of authentication features (such as SPF)
       | that use domain as a key, it's a really bad idea to allow
       | automated updates to domain records by unrelated services.
       | 
       | As usual, the mitigation for this issue is to turn off the
       | Microsoft "extension" that is enabled by default -- in this case
       | it is DHCP DNS Dynamic Updates.
        
         | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
         | I too find it odd that TLS implicitly relies on DNS (ACME from
         | letsencrypt). If someone controls your DNS they can get signed
         | certificates.
         | 
         | I'm optimistic letsencrypt validate dns via multiple streams
         | (to prevent BGP hijacking) but I've got no evidence or proof.
         | But that also doesn't solve a breach of your nameservers
         | (Godaddy has been breached) among other things.
         | 
         | And before anyone mentions it, dnssec is dead, at least as far
         | as I can tell.
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | How is this less secure than MDNS? Asking for a friend.
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | I worked in Microsoft support for domains and security from the
       | mid 90s through the launch of Windows 2000. I haven't worked for
       | Microsoft in more than a decade and I don't speak for them; I'm
       | just recollecting.
       | 
       | Many of you may be too young to remember, but TCP/IP did not
       | really come to dominate corporate networking until the mid-late
       | 90s. Before that, Novell had the IPX/SPX protocol suite and
       | Microsoft had NetBEUI. These protocols solved name resolution via
       | broadcast (although NetBEUI morphed into NetBIOS over TCP/IP
       | [NBT] and gained a server-based name resolver, WINS, which people
       | have the same complaints about).
       | 
       | For early adopters of Active Directory, one of the biggest
       | problems they had was that TCP/IP was new to them, and as often
       | happens in corporations, the people who had Windows AD expertise
       | had no authority over their enterprise DNS, and the people who
       | controlled enterprise DNS had no Windows expertise.
       | 
       | Support calls due to inability to locate a Windows resource in
       | DNS were some of the most common, and were therefore one of the
       | bigger identifiable costs of supporting Windows.
       | 
       | The Windows team had predicted all this (and also predicted that
       | Windows 2000 would be the first introduction of TCP/IP into many
       | smaller corporate networks and therefore they couldn't count on
       | having DNS and DHCP already present), and they built AD-
       | integrated DNS and DHCP and included it with Active Directory.
       | 
       | Microsoft didn't invent DNS or DHCP obviously, and of course at
       | the protocol level both of them are insecure. But so was
       | everything else on corporate LANs at the dawn of the internet and
       | for years after. Having AD-integrated DNS and DHCP meant that
       | literally you could boot a server with the Windows 2000 CD and
       | install Windows and during the creation of Active Directory, you
       | could select to have Windows install DNS and DHCP for you, giving
       | you a turnkey TCP/IP network.
       | 
       | Windows DHCP could be configured to issue addresses and then take
       | the broadcast name (remember NBT?) and populate DNS with it,
       | making it easy for DNS name resolution to work and solving the
       | other frequent support issue of not being able to resolve names
       | via broadcast on segmented/routed networks.
       | 
       | Of course now all this looks hopelessly archaic, but all of the
       | decisions were rational at the time they were made.
       | 
       | The problem now is that many Microsoft customers still use the
       | really old features, they can't migrate off them for one reason
       | or other, usually due to compatibility of some obscure app or
       | other, or just due to costs.
       | 
       | Of course the "secure" solution to DNS is for an admin to
       | manually create all the records, and use DHCP reservations. Most
       | companies don't want to expend that effort, except for security
       | sensitive machines. In AD, the really critical records (SRV
       | records) have ACLs that protect them from abuse. So mostly client
       | machines get the dynamic DHCP treatment.
        
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