[HN Gopher] On Limited Editions (1998)
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       On Limited Editions (1998)
        
       Author : wallflower
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2023-12-10 14:05 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (woodblock.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (woodblock.com)
        
       | ck45 wrote:
       | > When people in other fields try tricks like this, they are
       | castigated by society, and perhaps even find themselves in
       | trouble with the law.
       | 
       | What would be examples for those fields? I'm kind of stuck with
       | thinking about collectibles.
        
         | morisy wrote:
         | I was trying to think of this as well. I think recently there's
         | the great example of NFTs, but in 1998, I think that was around
         | the era Beanie Babies collapsed in part from the
         | speculation/collectible editions and maybe the Baseball Card
         | collapse in the late 90s?
         | 
         | https://allvintagecards.com/sports-card-market-crash-90s/
         | 
         | And maybe in general, at that point, a lot of limited editions
         | existed but were somewhat tacky and obvious, versus naturally
         | limited or collectible items. But I do think around this time
         | we saw a few collectible items go overboard in trying to push
         | the phenomena as far as it could go.
        
         | akovaski wrote:
         | I think the term to search for here is usually "price fixing"
         | and maybe "price gouging". Usually artificial scarcity is used
         | to raise prices. Think cartels, monopolies, Da Beers diamond
         | artificial scarcity, drug companies hiking prices.
         | 
         | I also vaguely recall some fashion brands destroying products
         | that haven't been sold. Probably more controversial if you have
         | to kill an animal to create the product.
         | 
         | Similarly other stores, like grocery stores, throw out or
         | destroy unsold goods.
         | 
         | Some of these are easier to rationalize than others, but I
         | think all have generated some notable level of hate from
         | society.
         | 
         | But they keep on doing it, so maybe it's worth it.
         | 
         | There's also Cryptocurrency and NFTs to consider.
         | 
         | Edit: Adjusting my tone a bit: I do think that society has
         | stopped at least some price fixing. Here is a quote from
         | Wikipedia:
         | 
         | > The lysine cartel was the first successful prosecution of an
         | international cartel by the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) in
         | more than 40 years. Since then, the DOJ has discovered and
         | successfully prosecuted nearly 20 international cartels.
        
         | prometheus76 wrote:
         | Diamonds?
        
       | subdane wrote:
       | Some people want to create. Some people want to consume. Some
       | people want to collect. Sometimes consumables become collectible
       | (Baseball cards). Sometimes collectibles become consumable (Mona
       | Lisa postcards). Creators are allowed to decide who their market
       | is and adjust as they see fit.
        
       | jrmg wrote:
       | Whenever I go to an art or craft fair, I'm struck by the feeling
       | that in a different world there would be a market for 'artisanal
       | software' - with varying ratios of utility vs. aesthetics as the
       | other arts and crafts have - and with independent software
       | craftspeople selling interesting apps.
       | 
       | I think I would enjoy being a software craftsperson.
        
         | 8ytecoder wrote:
         | That's exactly what I thought FOSS would lead to (at least when
         | I was naive and young). I thought the freedom that comes with
         | FOSS would result in it tailor made software for people and
         | businesses that are modified in just the right way to suit
         | their usage. I knew it was a long shot but I had a lot of hope.
         | "Webservices"/the internet changed the trajectory quite a bit.
         | I'm not talking about the likes of businesses like Amazon, but
         | rather apps like GMail, that very easily outpaced what you can
         | do in a measly desktop computer - not to mention the issues of
         | saving, syncing and backing up data that was never figured
         | out/made easy on the desktop.
         | 
         | The closest I got to enjoy this was the various Greasemonkey
         | scripts.
        
         | AlanYx wrote:
         | Mark Bernstein has written a bit about this. He used to call it
         | "neovictorian computing" but now uses the same "artisanal
         | software" term, e.g.:
         | https://www.markbernstein.org/NeoVictorian.html
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | "Artisanal software" is what we call our various piles of
           | tech debt-ridden legacy code
        
           | jrmg wrote:
           | Yeah, that seems close to the kind of culture I was thinking
           | of.
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | Technology currently lacks an aesthetic in my opinion. I think
         | for a craft to exist the working of the material must have
         | aesthetic.
         | 
         | I know that both hardware and software have aesthetics but I
         | believe for the most part those aesthetics aren't used. I
         | believe this is due to being in the early stage of digital
         | system creation.
         | 
         | Double entry book keeping be expressed in hardware I think
         | could be really beautiful which is what I hope Tohands from the
         | earlier post develops into.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38599270
        
         | BHSPitMonkey wrote:
         | You might be able to say this exists, to an extent, through
         | hardware pairing (like the Teenage Engineering products or the
         | Playdate they worked on). The woodblock prints from TFA are
         | nothing without the specially-chosen paper they are imprinted
         | onto as a way of being transported and displayed; perhaps
         | software is the carefully-arranged ink.
        
           | jrmg wrote:
           | That's a good point, there is more hardware like this -
           | though those are more like 'mass-market' or 'commercial' art
           | than the kind of 'art and craft fair' stuff I was thinking of
           | (think custom woodworking, limited-run prints, local
           | photography, local watercolors - even things like pet
           | portraits).
           | 
           | In the hardware world, I guess you could also make an
           | argument that stuff like https://nixieshop.com,
           | https://www.vestaboard.com, or https://www.traintrackr.io is
           | nearing this.
           | 
           | I have seen real small-run 'artisan' made clocks at local art
           | fairs, which I guess could be MCU based.
           | 
           | Maybe I should make some interesting clocks or displays and
           | try getting a stall at the next craft fair nearby...
        
         | tivert wrote:
         | > Whenever I go to an art or craft fair, I'm struck by the
         | feeling that in a different world there would be a market for
         | 'artisanal software' - with varying ratios of utility vs.
         | aesthetics as the other arts and crafts have - and with
         | independent software craftspeople selling interesting apps.
         | 
         | I recently watched the 5 hour cut of Until the End of the World
         | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Until_the_End_of_the_World),
         | which is an early 90s movie set "20 Minutes into the Future" (h
         | ttps://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TwentyMinutesInt...)
         | .
         | 
         | Some scenes depict some interesting software that might be kind
         | of like what you're talking about, though it's probably just a
         | case of a "Viewer Friendly Interface" (https://tvtropes.org/pmw
         | iki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViewerFriendlyIn...). Still really
         | entertaining, though.
        
         | Palomides wrote:
         | I commissioned a guy to make a small game for me last week, it
         | can be just like working with any other artist/individual
         | business
         | 
         | the unfortunate reality is that an hour of software labor
         | doesn't go far, and software labor is super expensive
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | I was at a university print fair recently. The numbering, edition
       | numbering, etc. was all over the place. There was no standard. It
       | was confusing for me, as a buyer who really isn't a collector and
       | connected to this stuff. It didn't stop me (or others) from
       | buying a few things though. Prices weren't tied to edition size,
       | and I didn't overhear any buyers asking about this stuff anyway.
       | Yeah, this was the low end of the market, but great art still
       | speaks for itself and will sell regardless of if there's a couple
       | hundred or an (effectively) unlimited amount of them in the
       | world.
       | 
       | As an aside, I get annoyed when I try to buy something limited
       | online & it sells out instantly and shows up on ebay. Stuff like
       | that makes no sense to set a hard limit for since artists are
       | probably leaving money on the table (they could either raise
       | their prices or produce more). A timed release would be nice in
       | these cases, but quality printing is a skill and I get that an
       | artist can't always leave the number they're committed to make to
       | chance like that...
        
       | zizee wrote:
       | Meh. Each to their own. There is some "value" in knowing that you
       | own something that is not mass produced. In some aspects, each
       | additional print doesn't affect the utility of any of the others.
       | After all, it looks the same hanging on your wall.
       | 
       | But there is a difference. Using an extreme example, what if the
       | print you hang on your wall is also hanging in every single
       | Starbucks? It will detract from your experience because you'll
       | think of Starbucks when you look at it. No one will marvel at
       | your good taste, or ask where you found it. People might even
       | look at you strangely.
       | 
       | I'm not saying all unnumbered prints are going to be this
       | extreme, and the "value" described is logical. But hopefully this
       | contrived example can demonstrate that there is an loss of value
       | when each additional print is made (at least for a large
       | percentage of the population).
       | 
       | If you're the sort of person that this doesn't make sense to, you
       | needn't be swayed by this thinking. More power to you. But let's
       | not pretend the practice is dishonest or perversive. And if your
       | selling one print of an unlimited run, don't be surprised if
       | people don't want to spend as much.
        
       | m0llusk wrote:
       | Interesting that several of the works I have collected that mean
       | the most to me are monoprints. With this form the material for
       | printing is assembled only once and may include items that may be
       | transformed by the printing process. Sounds like this person is
       | not familiar with monoprints as a format.
        
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