[HN Gopher] How Lego builds a new Lego set
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How Lego builds a new Lego set
        
       Author : sohkamyung
       Score  : 315 points
       Date   : 2023-12-15 12:25 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | tapland wrote:
       | Fun, but I really wish I could keep reading without having to
       | scroll through unknown amounts of pictures horizontally.
        
         | cezart wrote:
         | especially because on a Mac scrolling horizontally coincides
         | with the back/fwd gestures. I never even realised this until
         | this article...
        
         | ensocode wrote:
         | Thanks. Came here to comment exactly this. Not very UX
         | interested but are there more people who are annoyed by this
         | horizontal scrolling image galleries? Same with the movie
         | streaming websites... For me it seems to be counter intuitive
         | to go horizontally while navigating vertically.
        
         | silverwind wrote:
         | Rule #1 of web development: Don't mess with scroll.
        
           | eagleusr wrote:
           | Product pages that require 50 revolutions of the mouse wheel
           | to reach the spec sheet due to some embedded animation is the
           | most frustrating web experience.
        
         | ryanjshaw wrote:
         | The scrolling makes me feel uneasy; in my head the columns are
         | all offset by the scroll amount and I'm reading some weird zig-
         | zag layout.
        
         | nicklecompte wrote:
         | News organizations across the board have gotten into this
         | bizarre arms race with "interactive" multimedia... and I
         | genuinely have no idea why they think readers want it! The
         | Verge in particular always has dozens of comments complaining
         | about how distracting and unreadable some of their UI choices
         | are.
         | 
         | I suspect part of the answer is similar to Facebook's "pivot to
         | video" - some unscrupulous company has gaslit news executives
         | into thinking that "interactive content" is the future of
         | journalism, and are selling frameworks / consulting services /
         | etc. (Though part of the problem with The Verge is Nilay Patel
         | himself. Nilay seems like a good egg, but he has been obstinate
         | and arrogant about The Verge's UI changes. Can't argue with
         | taste...)
        
         | boesboes wrote:
         | Ah, there was more to the article? I gave up after a few
         | photo's..
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Seriously. I probably in the HN minority in that I don't mind
         | when vertical scroll results in animations that break up the
         | text (e.g. Apple product pages or fancy NYT articles)...
         | 
         | ...but when the animations turn into _horizontal_ scrolling
         | while I 'm moving my fingers vertically on my trackpad, I
         | _hate_ it. It breaks my brain and makes me angry at the
         | designer.
        
       | bluetomcat wrote:
       | How Lego went from designing playthemes for creative play and
       | building in adventurous imaginary worlds, to replicating real-
       | world 1:1 objects like cameras, typewriters and vintage game
       | consoles as collectible plastic pieces sitting on the shelves of
       | bored adults...
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Fortunately they also still sell the creative play and building
         | blocks and not all kids built canned sets.
         | 
         | The problem is that Lego somehow had to survive and they had
         | some pretty tough times, this was their solution. On the one
         | hand I'm disappointed, just like you. On the other I see my
         | kids make the most fantastic stuff with regular bricks so I'll
         | forgive them.
        
           | otabdeveloper4 wrote:
           | Bionicle/Hero Factory was by far the best they had for
           | creative play. They cancelled it many moons ago, and now we
           | have to buy 'em used for our kids.
           | 
           | On the whole it's a disappointing downward trajectory.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Funny, you couldn't pay my kids to play with those! But
             | they never seem to have enough 2x4s...
        
               | otabdeveloper4 wrote:
               | Emphasis on "creative". Bionicle was was their product
               | line that was simple enough for a child to have a
               | complete mental model of it, and at the same time complex
               | enough that they could build their own "real" adult sets,
               | something that isn't obviously a throwaway pile of
               | bricks.
        
             | ryukoposting wrote:
             | > Bionicle/Hero Factory was by far the best they had for
             | creative play.
             | 
             | I disagree with this premise. Play comes in countless
             | forms, and I think this statement places roleplay above
             | other forms of youthful creativity. For some kids, the
             | roleplay of Lego action figures was a huge draw. Other kids
             | play in different ways.
             | 
             | Some kids (like me) enjoyed Bionicle at first, but got
             | bored of action figures by age ~8. Bionicle's lack of
             | compatibility with most other Lego products meant that I
             | was left with a bunch of parts I never really played with
             | much (except for the ripcord disk-launcher things. I still
             | get a kick out of those!) For me, the next chapter was
             | Technic, because I liked making things that move. Fast
             | forward a bit, and Technic led to Mindstorms, Mindstorms
             | led to FIRST Robotics and Arduino, and now I'm a firmware
             | engineer.
             | 
             | Does Technic have less creative value than Bionicle? I
             | think that's an impossible question to answer. It depends
             | on the kid. Any given object has as much creative power as
             | a child's mind projects into it.
             | 
             | > On the whole it's a disappointing downward trajectory.
             | 
             | Yes and no.
             | 
             | On one hand, today's Lego action figures are pathetic
             | compared to the Bionicle/Hero Factory heyday. It's also
             | easy to mock cheap, commercialized dust collectors like the
             | Brickheadz series. Part of me is sad to see Mindstorms
             | dying off, but I also recognize that, even at its peak
             | (NXT), it was totally inaccessible to most kids.
             | 
             | On the other hand, some things have gotten _a lot_ better
             | than they were 20 years ago. Lego 's "Friends" theme is by
             | far the best girl-targeted product line they've ever made.
             | Belleville was the "girl" product line of my youth, and it
             | was was cynical, condescending trash that was so
             | thematically paper-thin that even my 6-year-old little
             | sister saw straight through it.
        
               | madarcho wrote:
               | Almost identical pathway here, except with some Spybotics
               | thrown in around the same time as Bionicle. I sometimes
               | wish Mindstorms had that level of world building...
        
           | seb1204 wrote:
           | My kids when 7 or older played more creative with Dublplo
           | blocks than their Lego sets.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Duplo is interesting, it allows kids to quickly build
             | pretty massive stuff if they have enough of it. But mine
             | were done with it relatively fast and we ended up donating
             | it to other people.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Primo and Quattro are also interesting but much more
               | rare.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Modulex, that's rare!!
               | 
               | If you find some keep it.
        
               | dsego wrote:
               | We have a large box of duplos but my three-year-old isn't
               | interested at all, maybe showed some interest a while
               | ago, but mostly to build the tallest tower. Now it's time
               | for the real legos, but I'm not sure if we'll even get
               | any if she won't play with them.
        
               | AuryGlenz wrote:
               | My 2 year old daughter hasn't really shown any interest
               | either.
               | 
               | It's weird, as a kid I wasn't really into building stuff.
               | Lego, wood blocks, etc. The only exception was "forts" in
               | my woods. I could play with my Power Rangers toys for
               | hours.
               | 
               | As an adult, though, I'm into it.
        
             | ochrist wrote:
             | Duplo is also from Lego. It's basically just larger blocks:
             | https://www.lego.com/da-dk/themes/duplo
        
               | Tomte wrote:
               | And it's compatible (2:1). So if you want to fill
               | something large in a color or do some vast ice landscape,
               | just get Duplo blocks and build away.
        
               | paradox460 wrote:
               | There's also quattro, which is 2x duplo, and compatible
        
             | Cerpicio wrote:
             | Side note, have you seen Magna-Tiles? My 4yo son loves
             | them. They have magnets along the edges so you can easily
             | stick pieces together and build structures. They are bigger
             | than regular LEGOs, more along the lines of Duplo. And they
             | can be pricey, but they are tons of fun for little ones!
             | Especially when their favorite thing is to knock down
             | whatever you build.
        
             | manojlds wrote:
             | Odd comment in the context of the thread since Duplo is
             | also LEGO
        
             | AlanYx wrote:
             | Even as an adult, Duplo is underrated. It's a lot of fun to
             | noodle around with creating things in Duplo because there
             | are more constraints and you can build a rough simulacrum
             | of something in only a few minutes.
        
             | patwolf wrote:
             | Duplo seems much more in the spirit of Lego sets from the
             | '80s. Builds used fewer, but larger pieces. I enjoyed
             | playing with the older sets because you could tear them
             | apart and put them back together much more easily.
             | 
             | Newer sets look nice, but IMO are much less fun to play
             | with. My kids still like building Lego sets, but our Duplos
             | get played with more often.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | Sadly what I see is Lego producing sets, even for kids, which
           | consists of an endless amount of tiny bricks which is
           | impossible to build stuff with quickly. It's absolutely
           | wonderful when you want to build highly detailed
           | reproductions.
           | 
           | What you can do, as you say, is to go get sets/buckets of
           | classic bricks and use those, but the sets are getting
           | annoying. As a kid I have pretty large number of various Lego
           | sets and I mostly mixed and matched to build rough castles,
           | space stations, house whatever, but you can do that with
           | modern sets, to many tiny tiny bricks and very few blocks
           | suitable for a five year old who just wants to build a house.
           | 
           | I get that Lego would have gone out of business if they had
           | continued to produce the type of sets I played with in the
           | 1980s, but it's barely a children's toy any more. Don't get
           | me wrong, it's great that they can make things that brings
           | joy to adults but I just feel that they've done it at the
           | cost of the youngest children.
           | 
           | Also, the display pieces are often terribly unstable and a
           | pain to keep clean. The Lego flowers are basically junk and
           | you shouldn't buy them. They aren't nearly stable enough to
           | have on display and they will certainly break when you try to
           | clean them.
        
             | Tomte wrote:
             | You're looking for the Minecraft sets. If you don't
             | especially like Minecraft, throw away the one or two
             | figures and enjoy the cool 2 by 4 bricks, just as they were
             | in your childhood.
             | 
             | Bonus: every detail is printed, no stickers anywhere.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | The best way to buy Lego is just to buy bulk dumps from
             | families that stopped playing with them. It's going to be
             | piles of unsorted bricks of all kinds and that in itself is
             | a stimulus for creativity.
             | 
             | Just go on ebay or the local equivalent and search for
             | 'pounds lego' or 'kilo lego' and you should be all set.
        
             | threetonesun wrote:
             | You can think of the advanced ones as more like puzzles you
             | can display once you're done. Kids still like them. Even
             | the finicky themed ones in our house get built then torn
             | down to be rebuilt into fantastical mashups from my kid's
             | imagination.
             | 
             | I think a lot of adults have overly fond memories of using
             | the basic blocks to build relatively basic things. Also
             | kids today can (and do) that in Minecraft now.
        
           | the_mitsuhiko wrote:
           | > On the one hand I'm disappointed, just like you
           | 
           | What exactly is the disappointment? That they also target
           | adults?
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | > Fortunately they also still sell the creative play and
           | building blocks and not all kids built canned sets.
           | 
           | Also, after being build as canned sets, the canned sets can
           | become more distinct parts for creative building.
           | 
           | At least, that's what happens with my kids.
        
         | loceng wrote:
         | Entertained all the way to a totalitarian state.
        
         | solids wrote:
         | Absolutely agree... I think in early 2000 they found a nice
         | sweet spot where you bought a set to build a particular object,
         | but all of them featured a fairly common set of pieces. So
         | after a while of having it in the shelve it could be
         | repurposed.
        
         | bena wrote:
         | This is from the Ideas line where they take fan submissions and
         | turn them into sets. Complain about what you perceive to be a
         | change in direction, but unless you were buying older sets, you
         | are part of the reason for that change
        
         | gyomu wrote:
         | Well yeah, you gotta grow the business, as any good visitor of
         | this site knows. You can only sell so many $30 buckets of
         | loosely assorted pieces intended for children.
         | 
         | There's much more money to be made in $200 sets with the
         | popular IP of the day or $500 collector sets for adults.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | > Well yeah, you gotta grow the business, as any good visitor
           | of this site knows
           | 
           | Well. You have to exist, which means you compete, which might
           | mean you grow.
        
             | aqsalose wrote:
             | >Well. You have to exist, which means you compete, which
             | might mean you grow.
             | 
             | Why _growth_? At some point you would eventually hit
             | perfect saturation anyway, the steady state where everyone
             | already is buying your product to the extent anyone can buy
             | it. I get that losing business is bad, and it 's better to
             | "overcorrect" to growth, but as long as you compete enough
             | to keep approximately same market share against other
             | competitors, selling inflation adjusted $30 buckets of
             | bricks to each generation of kids with profit sounds like
             | perfectly good business. Owner of the business would
             | receive steady income selling the inflation adjusted $30
             | buckets.
             | 
             | I'd imagine you'd hit problems when the buckets of bricks
             | you are selling are ~eternal and number of kids is no
             | longer growing, so nobody needs new ones.
        
               | AuryGlenz wrote:
               | As long as the population is growing, if your business
               | isn't you're effectively shrinking.
               | 
               | Plus image of Megablocks did Harry Potter, Star Wars,
               | etc. They'd overtake Lego in a minute.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | You'd have to grow because there are competitors that
               | would do your thing and the new thing, so customers would
               | go to them instead.
        
         | em500 wrote:
         | The classic brick buckets are still widely available, right
         | next to all the themed sets and the replica sets (which are
         | explicitly marketed to adults). Not sure what the complaint is
         | here, that the general public don't share your taste?
        
           | manojlds wrote:
           | Nah it's just the usual cynical HN comment.
        
           | bluetomcat wrote:
           | Even the assortment of pieces in the Classic 1000+ piece
           | buckets doesn't allow you to build interesting custom
           | creations resembling buildings or vehicles. Instead of a
           | large number of doors, windows, roof elements, wheels and
           | sidewall elements, you get mostly purple, orange, pink, cyan
           | and bright yellow 4x2s and 2x2s, and a large number of tiny
           | specific pieces.
           | 
           | The themed playsets aimed at 5+ children are leaning towards
           | detailed modeling with many tiny 1x1 pieces.
           | 
           | The one-off nostalgia-driven sets like the Lion King's
           | Castle, the remake of Eldorado Fortress and the Galaxy
           | Explorer are intentionally released as one-off sets with a
           | time distance in the release date, and not as a part of a
           | regular play theme.
        
             | AlanYx wrote:
             | There are some good, versatile Classic buckets. The
             | recently announced Creative Vehicles (11036) comes with
             | instructions for 8 vehicles and instructions for another 10
             | vehicles will be available on the website. It'll be
             | fantastic for kids who love building different types of
             | cars, buses, etc.
        
             | wharvle wrote:
             | Every now and then I see a set that looks like it's
             | actually for kids to play with. More exposed nubs, spaces
             | big enough for kid fingers to fit into (so many feature
             | only _tiny_ spaces now, even for a kid!) and builds that
             | don't look so fiddly that they'd be impossible to repair
             | after rough play or accidental damage without starting
             | over.
             | 
             | But yeah, even like 90% of the ones that appear to be
             | marketed to kids suck for kids to play with, now. They look
             | nice on the box, and on a shelf, though, and I guess that's
             | what shifts units.
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | The age recommendations on lego kits are pretty accurate
               | in my experience. As in, kids in that age range can
               | handle the kid without trouble and it suits their
               | interests.
               | 
               | For example, they really like those tiny little inside
               | thingies.
        
             | FireBeyond wrote:
             | > Even the assortment of pieces in the Classic 1000+ piece
             | buckets doesn't allow you to build interesting custom
             | creations resembling buildings
             | 
             | One of the more interesting experimentations was Lego
             | Architecture Studio.
             | 
             | All white (well, some translucent for glass/windows), 1200+
             | pieces, no instructions, but a book discussing some general
             | architecture and building principles particularly with
             | respect to Lego:
             | 
             | https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Architecture-Studio-Building-
             | Blo...
             | 
             | One of my favorite sets, though architecture in general is
             | a particularly interest/hobby of mine.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | I share part of his sentiment, there was a different culture
           | with lego before. Now, afaik, LEGO cannot make enough money
           | this way so they pivot into marketable sets with higher
           | profits or sales figures. But this still causes a brand
           | perception shift.
        
             | anonymous_sorry wrote:
             | The patents for their core IP expired. You can legally sell
             | generic compatible lego blocks now. So to maintain
             | mindshare they have to do licensed movie tie-ins, their own
             | movies and other such stuff.
             | 
             | I get why but it feels less timeless than it used to,
             | perhaps with less emphasis on creativity-led play. But what
             | do I know - I'm a grownup.
        
               | wharvle wrote:
               | In the age of Megabloks, Lego still had the moat of their
               | pieces _actually being fit for purpose_. Megabloks were
               | ass, and even a kid could instantly tell.
               | 
               | And their directions were always a ton better, for sets--
               | though they used to be more like spot-the-difference
               | puzzles than they are now, which I credit with my burying
               | the needle on a spatial reasoning test in high school, so
               | I'm kinda sad they lost that perhaps-accidental
               | pedagogical value in the shift to the you-can-follow-
               | them-in-your-sleep, modern style of directions.
               | 
               | But maybe the knockoff competitors aren't as obviously-
               | shit as they were in the earlier days?
        
               | andruby wrote:
               | The knock-offs I've handled recently are still terrible.
               | They don't fit well. No satisfying click. The colors feel
               | off..
               | 
               | I wanted to like the cheaper brands but none of them have
               | the same Lego engineering quality. We dusted off some of
               | my old lego and the bricks still fit perfectly with the
               | new bricks 30+ years later!
        
               | amatix wrote:
               | Even today the LEGO-compatible knock-offs are complete
               | junk, my kids occasionally end up picking up a loose bag
               | for PS1 from the local charity shop. Pieces don't stick
               | together properly (with each other, let alone LEGO
               | pieces); legs, arms, and hands come off the minifigs;
               | etc. You can instantly tell -- even ignoring the assault
               | rifles that would never make it in a LEGO box.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | I'm often stumped by the high level engineering that went
               | into these "toys".
        
               | wander_homer wrote:
               | Nowadays there are several "knock-offs" on the market
               | with higher quality and at a cheaper price.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | yeah that's what i meant, we're aware of their struggle,
               | but without shooting them, it also feel different
        
             | ReactiveJelly wrote:
             | It bugged me 20 years ago as a kid. I just wanted more
             | stuff like Rock Raiders.
             | 
             | "They're miners... in space! They mine green Energy
             | Crystals!" That's all you need. There was a K'nex mining
             | set about the same time. Good stuff.
             | 
             | Then I realized that most of the catalog was like, Lego
             | Harry Potter. Yeah, I really am complaining about what
             | everyone else buys. I was up to my nose in Harry Potter
             | merch already, I owned all 7 books. I wanted more Rock
             | Raiders and Insectoids.
        
               | monknomo wrote:
               | Same, except I wanted more m-tron. Put space rocks in a
               | box, lift it up with a magnet, fly off. Great fun!
               | 
               | Heck, my kindergarten daughter likes that formula. I'm
               | pretty sure there is a marketable business somewhere in
               | there, but maybe not at sufficient scale
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | Kids are playing wrong. They use lego as toy and not as
           | classroom educational item.
        
         | chongli wrote:
         | These sets are not creative play toys, they're highly-detailed
         | 3-dimensional jigsaw puzzles. That is their appeal, and you can
         | make the same argument about a traditional wood/cardboard
         | jigsaw puzzle:
         | 
         | "Kids should be learning how to paint with oil paints or
         | watercolours, not snapping together these pre-painted jigsaw
         | puzzles!"
         | 
         | I think the real difference here is that we've transitioned
         | from more of a mixed/manual labour economy to a
         | mental/emotional labour economy. People get off work and they
         | just want to come home and do something relaxing and not
         | mentally taxing. Putting together a Lego set is like that. It
         | takes more thought than watching TV, but not much. Coming up
         | with something interesting and creative from a bucket of random
         | Legos is different, and most people lose interest.
        
           | AmosLightnin wrote:
           | I think your argument in quotes is a good one. :) Following a
           | set of pre-defined instructions is not a creative act. It's
           | not bad to build a puzzle, but I would argue that it's not
           | nearly as meaningful of an experience as painting - or any
           | other creative activity for that matter.
        
             | bena wrote:
             | No, but building sets does have other benefits.
             | 
             | There's some zen to the act, like model or puzzle building.
             | But you can also observe and learn techniques to add to
             | your own builds.
             | 
             | Knowing all the ways Bionicles are put together can help
             | you turn a Porsche into a full transforming Autobot Jazz.
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | I think learning to oil paint could be a very meaningful
             | experience. Relaxing to watching Bob Ross videos and paint
             | along with him.
             | 
             | I do also feel there is this sort of "cult" of self-
             | improvement going around. Like if you're not spending every
             | waking minute of your life learning some new skill or
             | marketing yourself or trying to get a promotion, then
             | you're wasting your time. It's very toxic.
             | 
             | Doing things that you find relaxing should be accepted,
             | even if they don't teach you anything or improve you in any
             | way.
        
             | MisterBastahrd wrote:
             | It isn't even a puzzle if you've been given the
             | instructions on how to build it.
        
         | boesboes wrote:
         | If only they had all kinds of different product line for
         | different people!
        
         | SteveGerencser wrote:
         | My granddaughter and I build a ton of 'boring adult sets'
         | together, and then she gets to take them home, tear them apart,
         | and make anything she wants with the pieces. But she also loves
         | Minecraft (she's 8) and we buy the Minecraft specific sets as
         | well. It is quite possible to do all the things, it's not
         | necessarily an either/or scenario like many people like to
         | present as their argument against something.
        
         | _fat_santa wrote:
         | I don't think they went from one to the other, more like they
         | expanded to include sets that adults would be interested in.
         | The way I look at it, the higher end collectable pieces
         | subsidize the lower cost sets and "brick boxes" for the younger
         | generation.
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | When kids grow up into adults, they do not always become
         | massively different persons in their core. Oftentimes, creative
         | kids grow up into creative adults. Their hobbies often remain
         | or they still look back fondly on their old hobbies. And when
         | they are bored, they sometimes go back to their old hobbies,
         | due to nostalgia. You see it everywhere, in music people listen
         | to, books they read, etc
         | 
         | All of that is ok. Plus, majority of lego kits go to kids.
        
         | toxican wrote:
         | Why do you think they stopped designing sets for creative play?
         | They still sell bulk lego. They still sell non-licensed play
         | sets like space, city, castle, etc. And even the licensed sets
         | are great for creativity because I doubt a kid's not going to
         | shatter their set and start making their own damn spaceship
         | because it has "Star Wars" on the box. None of that has stopped
         | just because they also sell display pieces that are wildly
         | popular and intended for adults.
         | 
         | Like seriously go to any store that sells Lego and you'll see
         | that a good 80% of it is bulk or play sets. There are a lot of
         | things to be critical of lego for...the pricing, the over-
         | reliance on licensed sets, too many god-damned stickers, etc.
         | But this really isn't one of them at all.
        
       | dakial1 wrote:
       | I wonder when are we going to see a LLM to build Lego Sets out of
       | a prompt. Maybe is already out there?
        
         | codegladiator wrote:
         | llm to 3d printer ?
        
           | WillAdams wrote:
           | Perhaps using something like:
           | 
           | http://flatfab.com
        
         | andrewfromx wrote:
         | surely you've seen all the LLM generated fake lego images?
         | 
         | https://www.core77.com/posts/126450/People-Easily-Fooled-by-...
         | 
         | https://www.instagram.com/lego_rick_/reel/C0HaaoRLNG9/
        
           | krisoft wrote:
           | quote from the instagram you linked: "I had a LEGO employee
           | tell me that they had 10 customers ask about "upcoming" LEGO
           | sets that ended up being AI."
           | 
           | Sounds like an excellent way to validate demand then?
        
           | Feathercrown wrote:
           | I would totally buy that metal press
        
         | ensocode wrote:
         | Not quite there but close :-D -> ChatGPT 3.5 Promt give me
         | instructions on how to build an iPhone 15 Pro out of lego
         | bricks
        
         | RandallBrown wrote:
         | There's a company that makes sports stadiums out of "brxlz"
         | (brick pixels) and at first I thought they were just knockoff
         | legos.
         | 
         | After building a stadium I figured out it's basically just a
         | low resolution 3d model of the stadium that you sort of 3d
         | print layer by layer.
         | 
         | https://www.foco.com/collections/brxlz
         | 
         | Not nearly as nice as lego, but the final product is pretty
         | cool.
        
       | _giorgio_ wrote:
       | I've purchased a lot of Lego Duplo for my nephew, really fun
       | sets.
       | 
       |  _Duplo_ come from the latin word  "duplus", which means
       | _double_.
       | 
       | Duplo bricks are double the size of lego bricks. This make the
       | sets compatible.
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fg...
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/lego/comments/6m4wsm/mind_blown_30_...
        
         | jgtrosh wrote:
         | Obligatory quatro is twice bigger yet (and all are compatible
         | together!)
         | 
         | Also Wikipedia mentions duplex and not duplus, but whatever
        
         | bendoidic wrote:
         | And the short-lived LEGO Quatro brick was...you guessed
         | it...four times larger than a regular LEGO brick. Still
         | compatible with both other sets.
         | 
         | https://en.brickimedia.org/wiki/QUATRO
        
           | 123pie123 wrote:
           | I think these are biggest ones you can buy (or used to) not
           | sure on the size comparison - at a guess x8 to x10
           | 
           | 45003: Soft Starter Set
           | https://www.rapidonline.com/45003-lego-soft-starter-
           | set-70-1...
           | 
           | I had loads of fun playing with these in the lego centre
           | (forget the kids!)
        
             | loudmax wrote:
             | That softness is critical. Not for the kids, but for the
             | adults who have to clean up after them.
             | 
             | Stepping barefoot onto a Lego brick hurts, but stepping
             | barefoot onto a Duplo brick is much worse. Those things
             | look innocent enough, but in the dark they turn into
             | veritable caltrops!
        
               | ofrzeta wrote:
               | You think so? The Lego bricks have sharper edges and also
               | I think that you put the same weight (of your body) on a
               | comparatively larger area on the Duplos, so less pain.
               | But, well, who am I to argue about your experience.
               | (Never stepped on either of these in our living room
               | although we had both systems).
        
             | jedberg wrote:
             | They have those soft ones at Legoland. They put them in the
             | water park (they float!). I'm not sure they're compatible
             | with regular bricks though.
        
               | genocidicbunny wrote:
               | They are probably partially compatible. With Duplo for
               | example, it's easy enough to stack Duplo on top of
               | regular LEGO bricks, but not the other way around. For
               | stacking regular bricks on top of Duplo, you need to have
               | bricks of the proper multiple in each dimension -- they
               | need to be full height and a multiple of 2 in the other
               | dimensions. The Quatro bricks are compatible in the same
               | way -- you can easily stack them on top of Duplo or
               | regular bricks, but not the other way around; You
               | probably also need to do a transition layer from Quatro
               | to Duplo to regular bricks.
               | 
               | I've seen people use Duplo and Quatro for space-filling
               | when they needed a large amount of structural brick
               | somewhere that won't be seen in the final model. Think
               | having a LEGO city setup that has an underground level.
        
         | leipert wrote:
         | Checkout the compatible "Marble Run" from Hubelino. Good build
         | quality and loads of fun. Not affiliated.
         | 
         | https://www.hubelino.com/products/hubelino/marble-run/
        
           | bluescrn wrote:
           | 3D printing similar parts is a fun option too:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb1c3VqqfTE
        
           | JoshTriplett wrote:
           | As an aside, standard marbles are almost exactly 2 Lego studs
           | wide, which makes it easy to build marble runs using just
           | standard Lego pieces. For instance, you can build a marble
           | lifting tower for the start of a marble run that uses a
           | 2-stud by 2-stud hole in a 4x4 (or 6x6 for strength) tower.
        
         | tills13 wrote:
         | I mean the System in LEGO System in Play extends to the entire
         | LEGO universe. Shouldn't be a surprise that they are
         | compatible.
        
       | ryukoposting wrote:
       | > offering both fame and a small fortune -- 1 percent of net
       | sales -- to anyone who can convince 10,000 peers and The Lego
       | Group that their set deserves to exist
       | 
       | This isn't entirely true. Plenty of LEGO Ideas designs get to the
       | 10k threshold, then LEGO vetoes them for one reason or another.
       | The decision process is completely opaque; more often than not,
       | they basically just say "the design didn't pass internal review."
       | Never mind that most Ideas sets get a significant design overhaul
       | before reaching production anyway.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | That's why it says "and the Lego Group" - you have to do the
         | 10k _and_ pass internal design review.
        
           | nicklecompte wrote:
           | "Lego is 'proud' to announce Lego McLegoface Mark XVI.
           | Apparently you guys still think this joke is funny."
        
           | ryukoposting wrote:
           | "Convincing" the Lego Group implies that there's dialogue.
        
             | fshr wrote:
             | I don't think it implies that. The 10k votes, parts list,
             | photos, impetus, and lore/background is the "convincing".
             | 
             | A speech, a monologue, can be convincing.
        
             | mcphage wrote:
             | There is, but it seems like it's between Lego and the
             | rightsholder.
        
           | eloisant wrote:
           | But then the 10k is meaningless.
           | 
           | "Anyone who can convince the Lego Group", that could be said
           | of any product/company!
           | 
           | It's like saying "anyone who can convince Netflix can launch
           | a new TV Show".
        
             | The_Colonel wrote:
             | It's just screening the clearly not-good-enough designs so
             | that Lego employees don't have to review everything.
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | it also shows the market potential: 10000 people would
               | buy this set. sure not all of them will buy it, but it's
               | certainly a useful metric.
        
             | nkrisc wrote:
             | It's not meaningless, it's just an initial filter to show
             | there's at least some amount of interest in it.
             | 
             | No sense reviewing proposals for sets that can't even get
             | 10,000 people interested.
        
           | billfor wrote:
           | I'm still waiting for my Saturn V Gantry. https://ideas.lego.
           | com/projects/a88109ec-9970-4fe1-98b4-9bd5...
        
             | tills13 wrote:
             | BTW: https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/design.page?idMode
             | l=1603... or other, similar models there.
             | 
             | Bricklink is perhaps secretly (or perhaps not) owned by
             | LEGO itself so they can have their hand in the pocket of
             | the used / resale market. People will upload full MOCs (My
             | Own Creation) there and you can purchase the sets piece-
             | wise. Usually even more expensive than if you wait and buy
             | a set through LEGO but for stuff like this it's worth it.
        
               | C4stor wrote:
               | Bricklink has been acquired by Lego 4 years ago, I don't
               | think that's a secret at all !
        
               | jerrysievert wrote:
               | which was one of the better things that could have
               | happened after Daniel Jezek passed. lego has been a good
               | steward of it since.
        
         | bena wrote:
         | Some of that is due to reasons they cannot say. They've
         | developed a policy of "no current IP currently produced by the
         | Lego Group". So even if a set gets past the 10,000 mark, if
         | it's a minifig scale Death Star, it's not being made.
         | 
         | So if it's a set they currently have IP rights for, but have
         | not announced sets for, they'll generally turn it down. But
         | they can't say it's because they've recently acquired the IP
         | rights to Sonic the Hedgehog.
         | 
         | They also have a loose "no contemporary war toys" policy. I say
         | loose because the Indiana Jones line kind of pushes on that a
         | bit. But that's right around the cutoff for them. But you
         | definitely won't see an F16 fighter jet anytime soon.
        
           | AlanYx wrote:
           | They did recently produce a set loosely based on the F-35
           | Lightning ("Blue Power Jet").
        
             | bena wrote:
             | Exactly. It kinda, sorta is close to one and there's no
             | ordinance.
             | 
             | Not too long ago, they yanked a V-22 Osprey set because of
             | their "no military vehicles" policy.
        
               | WillAdams wrote:
               | I'm still baffled that the Coast Guard didn't go all-in
               | on that --- maybe if they had, it would have been
               | acceptable in that livery.
        
               | throwanem wrote:
               | Nothing baffling there. The Osprey isn't very good for
               | its design use case that happened once in 1980, but it
               | makes up for that by being even worse at everything else.
        
           | cainxinth wrote:
           | According to gpt-4, a minifig scale Death Star I would be
           | over 2 miles in diameter
        
             | Ringz wrote:
             | Seems reasonable to me. Let's start building.
        
               | dhosek wrote:
               | The problem is that according to Science(tm)
               | (https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20578627) with a tower
               | of 2.17miles you start to get materials failure on the
               | bricks. You might be able to engineer around this, but I
               | suspect that the minifig-scale deathstar would cause the
               | bottom bricks to melt.
               | 
               | Bummer.
        
               | whythre wrote:
               | Maybe in this hypothetical we could reduce weight by
               | making it the 2nd Death Star? A lot of that was skeletal
               | superstructure.
        
               | thrtythreeforty wrote:
               | That's true if you build the station on the planet, but I
               | think the station is designed to be constructed in orbit
               | in the first place. Its self-gravity should be
               | negligible. Problem solved!
        
               | thesnide wrote:
               | That's no moon...
        
               | lifeisstillgood wrote:
               | I think we can get support for a 2 mile large Lego Death
               | Star hauled up by NASA and assembled in orbit - write
               | your congressman now !
        
               | mcv wrote:
               | I'm really starting to run out of space in my home for
               | these big Lego sets.
        
               | monknomo wrote:
               | a 2 mile deathstar gives you the chance to flip this
               | around - get space for your home in a big lego set
        
           | HenryBemis wrote:
           | I had the same thoughts when I was thinking of "how can I
           | make myself an Enterprise 2 years back. I hope that a Lego
           | AI* will help me get the individual parts needed AND the
           | manual to build it myself, and to work around the IP issues
           | name it "Green Spaceship" (and I will simply order the Grey
           | pieces instead of the Green.
           | 
           | I see on my bookmarks I got a https://ideas.lego.com/projects
           | /a056ebf2-163e-4aa0-b005-02b0.... I remember finding out who
           | that C3Brix is and contacted him, but never got a response.
           | 
           | People will have better chance coming up with their own
           | generic design than an IP-owned.
           | 
           | > But you definitely won't see an F16 fighter jet anytime
           | soon.
           | 
           | Considering some Lego AI* that will be 'smart' enough when
           | fed the full library of Lego bricks dimensions, it should be
           | able to build ANY 3D design or using 'many' 2D
           | (photos/drawings) of a 'thing' and generate the 'shopping
           | list' and the manual.
           | 
           | I don't know how happy would Lego be then (as Lego bricks
           | must be somehow their IP), but it would be GREAT if someone
           | built that.. I would happily pay $100 to generate stuff some
           | some Star Trek iconic designs (Dyson sphere, all the
           | Enterprises, the Voyager, etc.)
           | 
           | Space Fights are good, but Space Trips are better!!!
           | (https://xkcd.com/1563/)
           | 
           | *ACTUALLY, now that I'm thinking about it I will try with
           | Bard and ChatGPT and see what comes out
           | 
           | EDIT: I saw others had the same idea in other comments.. I'll
           | add a reminder on my Calendar in 6 months from now to see
           | what's been going on for this topic
           | 
           | EDIT2: I just asked Bard and it came up with 5 suggestions,
           | listed below:
           | 
           |  _1. Mecabricks Mecabricks is a web-based software that
           | allows you to create LEGO models from scratch or import
           | photos and dimensions. It has a large library of LEGO bricks
           | and pieces, and it can generate step-by-step instructions for
           | your models. Image of Mecabricks website Opens in a new
           | window www.stonewars.de Mecabricks website
           | 
           | 2. Rebrickable Rebrickable is another web-based software that
           | can help you create LEGO models from photos. It has a similar
           | interface to Mecabricks, but it also has a feature that
           | allows you to search for existing LEGO models that match your
           | photo. Image of Rebrickable website Opens in a new window
           | www.reddit.com Rebrickable website
           | 
           | 3. Brick-A-Pic Brick-A-Pic is a web app that converts photos
           | into LEGO mosaics. It can be used to create custom LEGO
           | artwork or to recreate logos, portraits, and other images.
           | Image of BrickAPic website Opens in a new window wired.jp
           | BrickAPic website
           | 
           | 4. Art4Bricks Art4Bricks is a company that specializes in
           | creating custom LEGO mosaics. You can upload a photo to their
           | website and they will create a custom design for you. They
           | will also sell you the LEGO bricks and instructions you need
           | to build the mosaic.
           | 
           | 5. LEGO Mosaic Maker The LEGO Mosaic Maker is an official
           | LEGO product that allows you to create LEGO mosaics from
           | photos. It comes with a set of 4,702 LEGO bricks in 5 colors,
           | and it includes instructions for creating 15 different mosaic
           | designs._
           | 
           | I will start checking them out later today..
        
             | eriktrautman wrote:
             | The idea of a Lego AI sounds amazing... just thought of
             | what might happen if you took a photo of your pieces then
             | said "I like original Star Wars, make me a series of
             | spaceships from that" and it outputted step by step
             | instructions to create them. So cool. Sure, something seems
             | a bit lost in the creative flailing that is the growth path
             | of young Lego-ists, but it would be really cool.
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | As for the IP around lego bricks, an instruction set would
             | be copyrightable, the brick system is patentable (but the
             | patents on most of the bricks would be expired now which is
             | why there are generic brick sets available), and they can
             | do a trademark that would provide limited protection, but
             | mostly for the brand, not for the bricks themselves (I
             | remember being at the Lakland workshop back in the 90s and
             | they were talking about how the Fender lawyers came and
             | told them how they needed to redesign their headstock as to
             | not violate Fender's trademarks/design patents on the
             | headstock shape, and there would be some similar protection
             | potentially available to Lego, but again, the existence of
             | generic bricks tells me that it doesn't apply to the
             | bricks).
             | 
             | So the bottom line is that Lego cannot keep you from
             | publishing plans and parts lists for your own Lego sets.
             | Heck, you could even, if you were sufficiently funded,
             | manufacture the set yourself. You just couldn't use the
             | Lego brandname at all.
        
             | myspy wrote:
             | I don't know if you're interested but this company makes
             | Star Trek sets
             | 
             | https://www.bluebrixx.com/de/sets/star_trek?gad_source=1
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | I assume they don't have infinite capacity either. So even
           | without rights conflicts, if they can only ramp up say 10
           | sets at a time, and they're working on eight for a new
           | campaign, they're going to be pickier about the final two.
           | 
           | Lego may sell a hundred different sets at the same time, but
           | if they run out of one they aren't going to get more
           | tomorrow. It's on a manufacturing schedule. They may have all
           | of the yellow 1x6 bricks you could ever need, but they still
           | have to fire up the part picker, the bag sealers, and order
           | new boxes and booklets from the printers. Plus there's that
           | weird part that is only in three current sets, they have to
           | make more of them, and the first gap in the schedule is next
           | Thursday.
        
         | greenpizza13 wrote:
         | I think it's possible you did not continue reading the article.
         | This is all covered.
        
         | jk_i_am_a_robot wrote:
         | "Never mind that most Ideas sets get a significant design
         | overhaul before reaching production anyway."
         | 
         | You've answered your own question -- selection criteria extend
         | beyond physical design.
        
         | mcv wrote:
         | > most Ideas sets get a significant design overhaul before
         | reaching production anyway.
         | 
         | Often it's an improvement, but lots of people are disappointed
         | that the new Orient Express[0] is nothing like the original
         | Ideas design[1].
         | 
         | [0] https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/the-orient-express-
         | train-...
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://ideas.lego.com/projects/568ee861-3b62-413a-9432-ce1d...
        
         | ItsMattyG wrote:
         | This is literally what the whole article was about. Not only
         | does the quote itself contain that context "and the lego
         | group", but the very next paragraph is "And then... nothing.
         | The Tintin votes dried up, and Lego rejected both his fan-
         | favorite Avatar and Polar Express ideas. The company never says
         | why it rejects an Ideas submission, only that deciding factors
         | include everything from "playability" and "brand fit" to the
         | difficulties in licensing another company's IP."
        
         | panzi wrote:
         | Also the final product often looks very different (usually a
         | lot smaller) then the submission.
        
       | jesperlang wrote:
       | Why aren't we building "products" from lego rather than seeing
       | them as toys? The promise of 3D-printers haven't really played
       | out, but it would be interesting if we had a material like lego
       | to build some of the things we need. Lego is infinitely
       | customizable and each brick would be potentially useful in any
       | product that you would build. Of course there are some obvious
       | downsides but I think the idea of an ecosystem of standardized,
       | "open" and adaptable materials is super interesting.
        
         | AmosLightnin wrote:
         | Me too! There have been a few experiments in this but none have
         | caught on. Here's a nice article that explores the idea:
         | https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/12/how-to-make-everyt...
        
           | jesperlang wrote:
           | Thanks, this was exactly what I was looking for!
        
         | spockz wrote:
         | The concrete walls of my house already resemble a 4x2 block,
         | although slightly higher in the body relative to the "pins" on
         | top.
         | 
         | Or are you referring to something else? Lego is plastic. Houses
         | need wood or concrete and all kinds of isolation etc.
        
           | ryukoposting wrote:
           | I would guess the commenter is referring to prototyping.
        
         | cush wrote:
         | Lego is heavy, bulky, expensive, and falls apart when you move
         | it. What are you thinking we'd manufacture from it?
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > The promise of 3D-printers haven't really played out
         | 
         | Huh?
        
           | vGPU wrote:
           | I assume he means in the idea of printing daily household
           | items instead of buying them, printing houses, etc.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | 3D printing is much more versatile than LEGO. Take just a
             | random example: a cup holder for in the car. Using 3D
             | printing, it would look and work similar to the ones you
             | can buy in a store. Using LEGO would make it very bulky,
             | aesthetically not so great, and also it would fall apart
             | easily.
             | 
             | I think the original commenter above has simply never used
             | a 3D printer for anything practical.
        
             | internet101010 wrote:
             | Which doesn't make sense, either. 3d printers are the
             | ultimate bracket makers. I've used mine numerous times for
             | things like broken sliding light switches or really
             | anything small and made of plastic that breaks.
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | > The promise of 3D-printers haven't really played out
         | 
         | I don't know what you think the "promise of 3D-printers" was
         | but if you think it hasn't played out then probably you had
         | unreasonable expectations.
         | 
         | > Why aren't we building "products" from lego rather than
         | seeing them as toys?
         | 
         | Would you buy such a product? They would be much larger than
         | the same thing not made out of lego. They would shatter in your
         | bag during transportation. They would be more awkward to use
         | because of the rectangular shape of the bricks. They would
         | collect dirt in all the crevices/studs.
         | 
         | Look around your home or recent purchase history, which
         | products would be improved by making them out of lego?
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Could you give some examples of things you envision being built
         | this way?
         | 
         | And could you give some examples of where 3D printing isn't
         | working for you?
         | 
         | It's hard for me to figure out what's motivating this
         | suggestion without specific examples.
        
         | WillAdams wrote:
         | The expense.
         | 
         | That said, I have made a couple of things as prototypes, mostly
         | for archery:
         | 
         | - spine testing jig (had to use a bunch of washers on a bolt
         | for the two-pound weight though)
         | 
         | - fletching jig
         | 
         | Also some small desk accessories --- a tablet stand w/ pen
         | holder, a rack for a CD-player --- the two stacks of bricks
         | holding up a wooden shelf are still on place though.
        
         | wmeredith wrote:
         | There are tons of plans available online for LEGO "products".
         | Stands for smartphones and tablets and headphones are the first
         | thing that comes to mind and I've seen a lot of those. Pencil
         | holders and such are popular as well.
        
         | wtracy wrote:
         | Jekca dabbles with this idea. They sell Lego-like parts that
         | lock together with a tiny wrench:
         | 
         | https://www.jekca.us/
         | 
         | At one point they sold a set around building toddler-sized
         | furniture that could be disassembled and repurposed as the kids
         | grow up. Now it looks like the closest thing they offer is desk
         | organizers (which is still cool).
        
           | pimlottc wrote:
           | > Jekca dabbles with this idea. They sell Lego-like parts
           | that lock together with a tiny wrench:
           | 
           | Interesting, I hadn't heard of that before. This page has an
           | illustration of how the locking system works:
           | 
           | https://www.jekca.us/pages/introduction-of-jekca
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | I actually toyed with the idea with the Technic "bricks" that
         | give much much more flexibility.
         | 
         | I can vouch for the versatility, it kinda works for a headphone
         | hanger, or a cup holder, small foldable desk racks etc. But
         | then these components are too light and don't have enough
         | strength to keep shape for months. Many of the parts bent over
         | time, some broke under abuse.
         | 
         | Also for these kind of use pieces are big and finding a compact
         | build is really a chalenge. I ended up using a ton of custom
         | built third party pieces.
         | 
         | I'd definitely try with a 3d printing next, it will allow for
         | smaller parts at least, and probably cost way less in materials
         | (Lego are overpriced for that)
        
       | notjes wrote:
       | The article is fine, but the image implementation on this website
       | did dampen the experience somewhat.
        
         | datadrivenangel wrote:
         | The scroll-jacking images are disorienting. Kind of reminds me
         | of some of the more egregious scrolly-telling visualizations.
        
           | mkoryak wrote:
           | I couldnt figure out how to scroll them the first time around
        
       | snoutie wrote:
       | I am confused by the statement about "frames", where each design
       | team gets a limited amount of "new" bricks they are able to
       | introduce. Yet all of the internaly come in all colors available.
       | 
       | This, the colourful internals, are what defines lego for me
       | nowadays. I wonder: had they kept the system of gray and black
       | axels, one for even length unit one for odd, and the standardized
       | blue and black pins while keeping every other part the default
       | black, would they have more frames available for "custom" parts?
       | 
       | In my mind having two blue bricks where there should only be one
       | is unacceptable for the price that lego is inevitably going to
       | charge.
        
         | mcphage wrote:
         | > Yet all of the internaly come in all colors available
         | 
         | Since those already exist, they probably don't count as new
         | frames. It seems like you "spend" frames on _new_ pieces you
         | want to introduce, but there 's a large stock of evergreen
         | pieces you can pick from.
        
           | flutas wrote:
           | Yeah, I think the best way to think about the frames is "do
           | we already have a mold for this piece / have we done the
           | engineering for it" if so then it's not new, just a new
           | colorway.
        
             | CrazyStat wrote:
             | According to the article, a new color requires spending a
             | frame:
             | 
             | > Want a part in a different color? That costs designers a
             | frame. A new piece? Spend some frames. Bring back an old
             | out-of-print piece? That's a frame, too.
             | 
             | This makes sense, since a new color requires dedicated
             | storage space (which frames are intended to control).
        
         | genocidicbunny wrote:
         | > I am confused by the statement about "frames", where each
         | design team gets a limited amount of "new" bricks they are able
         | to introduce. Yet all of the internaly come in all colors
         | available.
         | 
         | LEGO has a large part catalog -- a lot of different molds that
         | define the shapes. They also have each part available in some
         | selection of colors. If you need an existing part in a new
         | color, it's not terribly expensive to spin up a production line
         | for it because the molds are ready. There may need to be
         | adjustments to the color chemistry for the specific part (some
         | colors are more brittle/fragile, others may require different
         | processes -- transparent parts for example.)
         | 
         | If you need to spin up a new mold, that's where it gets
         | complicated and expensive.
         | 
         | As for the internals, they largely come from the existing
         | part:existing color matrix. Over the years LEGO has created a
         | lot of colors, but in reality not every part is available in
         | every color, and if you buy enough LEGO sets you notice that a
         | lot of the internals tend to actually use similar color
         | schemes. Technic axles and pins are now even largely
         | standardized to specific colors. High friction 2x pins are
         | always black, low friction 2x pins are beige..etc.
         | 
         | > In my mind having two blue bricks where there should only be
         | one is unacceptable for the price that lego is inevitably going
         | to charge.
         | 
         | LEGO used to do a lot more custom one-off pieces for sets in
         | the 90's and early 2000's, and it was one of the factors in
         | them nearly being bankrupted. Reducing their part catalog and
         | going to using more small pieces to build up assemblies instead
         | of just molding them as a single piece helped them get out of
         | that predicament. And as an AFOL, I prefer that they use more
         | pieces to 'brick build' things -- not only do you see some
         | really cool building techniques, but there's also so much more
         | that you could possibly use them for. There's also a large
         | spectrum of complexity in the sets. Smaller sets for younger
         | children will use larger simpler parts and less complicated
         | building techniques. The sets that really go all out on details
         | with tiny pieces are usually designed for adults (and a few
         | very lucky kids.)
         | 
         | > This, the colourful internals, are what defines lego for me
         | nowadays
         | 
         | The internals used to be much more monochrome, but one of the
         | things LEGO tries to improve is the build experience. It's much
         | easier to tell which pieces is supposed to go exactly where
         | when they're all different sizes and colors. Heck, it's still a
         | problem sometimes with sets that heavily use a single color,
         | like some of the batman ones in recent years. There are places
         | in the instructions manual where it's almost impossible to tell
         | the placement of pieces because it's just one big nearly-black
         | mass of bricks both on the table in front of you, and in the
         | pictures in the instructions.
        
           | jerrysievert wrote:
           | > LEGO used to do a lot more custom one-off pieces for sets
           | in the 90's and early 2000's, and it was one of the factors
           | in them nearly being bankrupted. Reducing their part catalog
           | and going to using more small pieces to build up assemblies
           | instead of just molding them as a single piece helped them
           | get out of that predicament.
           | 
           | it was hard to collect and build through that period,
           | especially as so many specialty parts just kept appearing
           | with every set. the intervening years, except for the
           | constant changes of motors and electrification, seemed to put
           | this into check and make for some fun and interesting builds.
           | 
           | unfortunately, from the perspective of someone who puts
           | together 10-12 sets/year, it appears that we are heading back
           | into that specialized time again; maybe not as bad with
           | intricate specialty parts, but the number of new (2023) parts
           | in the last two sets that I've put together has been quite
           | high. those sets were the bat cave shadow box and the orient
           | express.
           | 
           | I understand the appeal of SNOT, but the sheer number of new
           | SNOT elements is craziness.
           | 
           | > The internals used to be much more monochrome, but one of
           | the things LEGO tries to improve is the build experience.
           | It's much easier to tell which pieces is supposed to go
           | exactly where when they're all different sizes and colors.
           | 
           | they've also improved the printing of the instructions over
           | the years, as well as better differentiation through outlines
           | of what is new. that was very obvious when my father and I
           | put together 7 holiday sets I had collected over 20 years
           | last holiday season. each newer set was a good improvement.
        
             | genocidicbunny wrote:
             | > they've also improved the printing of the instructions
             | over the years, as well as better differentiation through
             | outlines of what is new. that was very obvious when my
             | father and I put together 7 holiday sets I had collected
             | over 20 years last holiday season. each newer set was a
             | good improvement.
             | 
             | They have, but they still have problems with sets that have
             | large chunks of the same color, especially when it comes to
             | stuff like tiling or greebling, like the UCS Batman
             | Tumbler. And certain colors still seem problematic. The old
             | UCS Sandcrawler set is the one that stands out in my mind,
             | that reddish-brown color made a lot of the instructions
             | very difficult to read; That was like 10 years ago now, but
             | even the more recent Bonsai tree also had that problem.
        
               | jerrysievert wrote:
               | > They have, but they still have problems with sets that
               | have large chunks of the same color, especially when it
               | comes to stuff like tiling or greebling, like the UCS
               | Batman Tumbler.
               | 
               | the batcave shadow box definitely suffered with it a bit,
               | but at least it was an interesting and challenging build.
               | unlike the new orient express train, which was ... not
               | what I'd expect from lego.
        
               | genocidicbunny wrote:
               | > unlike the new orient express train, which was ... not
               | what I'd expect from lego.
               | 
               | Incidentally, this is how I've felt about a lot of the
               | bigger sets from LEGO recently. A decade or so ago, I
               | used to basically buy every >$100 set LEGO put out every
               | year, sans a few themes -- I've got a few large storage
               | bins filled with just the instructions from these sets.
               | But some of the massive sets LEGO has been putting out
               | recently, like the Coliseum or the new Eiffel Tower set
               | just don't seem like particularly fun builds. I think the
               | first time I noticed this was putting together the 10253
               | Big Ben set. It just didn't feel like fun stacking those
               | tiny pieces together, repeated like 30-40x for each
               | little subassembly. But since then, there has definitely
               | been a creep of the builds for larger sets being a little
               | less fun and more tedious. It can be a good way to relax
               | if you just want to kind of zone out for a while and do
               | stuff with your hands, but that's not my style.
               | 
               | Of course, then they put out something like the Concorde
               | which looks like a very fun build, so at least some of
               | the LEGO designers got their heads on straight.
        
               | jerrysievert wrote:
               | I have mostly built the modular sets (and designed my
               | own), but missed a couple in the 2010's. also a big train
               | fan (have built many of my own train cars), or have built
               | more fun things like the ghostbusters fire station and
               | car. I never got into the architecture sets though.
               | 
               | I plan on taking some time one of these weekends to build
               | a large outdoor track layout to run on, but am waiting on
               | some more after-market track to arrive.
        
               | genocidicbunny wrote:
               | By outdoor track, I assume you mean still a LEGO one?
               | What after-market track are you using?
        
               | Tomte wrote:
               | Those extremely expensive sets depicting famous things
               | are all beginner sets, building-wise.
               | 
               | If some regular person just had their first and only trip
               | on the Orient Express, or has always dreamed about making
               | that trip: this is the target market. You cannot in
               | general expect these people to have build a single Lego
               | set, yet, so they are huge, sprawling, expensive, but
               | totally uninteresting if you've ever built more than "put
               | this 2 by 4 brick on that 2 by 4 brick".
        
         | lordfrito wrote:
         | Lego nearly went bankrupt in the early 2000s. Part of the
         | problem is that they had way too many colors of way too many
         | bricks (and way too many patterned bricks). Each unique
         | brick/color/pattern had to be binned/stored separately. So the
         | inventory took up a lot of space, all those warehouses cost
         | $$$.
         | 
         | So Lego re-tooled to reduce the overall number of bricks in
         | inventory. Instead of building bricks in many colors and
         | patterns, they now build bricks in a fewer colors and even
         | fewer patterns.
         | 
         | A big part of what they do to plan for the year is figure out
         | what bricks/colors/patterns will be used. The designers are
         | then told "design sets using these color bricks". If you pay
         | attention, you'll notice that the colors of the Modular City
         | sets change yearly, mainly to keep up with the colors being
         | chosen for the other new Lego sets.
         | 
         | This is why there are so many stickers in the newers sets. Lego
         | can't afford to make every part in a printed pattern -- it's a
         | lot cheaper for them to keep sheets of stickers on the shelf
         | than full bins of printed bricks.
         | 
         | This is where the idea of "frames" comes from -- it's their
         | internal credit system that lets the designers budget for what
         | bricks/colors they really need, and at what expense to the
         | other sets they're making.
         | 
         | The designers likely spend big on special parts for the new
         | Star Wars or Marvel set. As I said before, this comes at the
         | price that the other sets have to be designed using the bricks
         | that are on hand.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | It's part of the great "brick reduction" done in the early
         | 2000s because the number of simultaneous parts was getting too
         | high. So they hand out "chits" called frames to the teams that
         | they can "spend" to get a part in a color that isn't available
         | yet, etc.
         | 
         | The teams can swap and barter frames if they convince another
         | team it would be useful. There was a good description of it in
         | https://unbound.com/books/lego - the Secret Life of Lego
         | Bricks.
        
       | SillyUsername wrote:
       | Lego have stated that they have to keep using oil based plastic
       | (ABS) because their attempt at "sustainable" plastics has failed.
       | Specifically they've said they need Lego to "last generations".
       | That sentence should set off alarm bells for environmentalists,
       | it's not recycling if Lego is mostly dumped after a kid grows up.
       | 
       | Lasting generations sounds like BS to me given the arguments
       | against fossil fuel plastic production, banning forever plastics
       | from the environment, and sea and environmental pollution caused
       | by items like bricks or bags.
       | 
       | Why should Lego last generations? A PLA type plastic would be non
       | toxic, break down easier and importantly for Lego, also encourage
       | replacement purchases.
       | 
       | Lego that lasts 10-15 years, with a discount replacement
       | programme, to my mind, is better than 100+ year old Lego killing
       | animals that eat it, or taking up space in landfills.
       | 
       | Anecdotally, most kids don't want old Lego, (just look online at
       | the moms selling old unwanted Lego cheap without instructions or
       | boxes) they want the latest sets, so the justification isn't
       | there either.
        
         | altairTF wrote:
         | Because they build a reputation of good quality plastic pieces
         | that fit very snug together for, like they said, generations.
         | New type os plastic seens to not be like that and the final
         | product was not really good. If its really true or not, i don't
         | know, but that was their justification.
        
         | diffeomorphism wrote:
         | Further context:
         | 
         | https://www.ft.com/content/6cad1883-f87a-471d-9688-c1a3c5a0b...
         | 
         | The footprint over the lifetime is higher. Seems like an
         | entirely reasonable decision.
        
         | marvinblum wrote:
         | Bricks also do get worse with time. I remember getting some old
         | Lego as a child and finding the pieces barely stuck together.
         | Having old bricks mixed with new ones, my designs would often
         | "fail" at older pieces first.
        
         | avalys wrote:
         | Lego is basically irrelevant when it comes to fossil fuel
         | consumption or environmental plastic pollution. I'm glad they
         | decided not to make their product worse for no point.
         | 
         | I wish "environmentalists" would keep their focus on things
         | that will actually make a difference, as opposed to insisting
         | on these performative sacrifices that make our world poorer,
         | duller or less capable without meaningfully helping the
         | environment.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | The fact that Lego is making a decision that is directly
         | against their own financial interest should unring the bell.
         | Making quality things that last forever is the Reduce and Reuse
         | of the recycle triangle. _All_ of my childhood Legos are now
         | owned by my nieces and nephews.
         | 
         | > But Lego has now revealed that after more than two years of
         | testing, it had found that using recycled PET didn't reduce
         | carbon emissions.
         | 
         | > It said the reason for that was because extra steps were
         | required in the production process, which meant it needed to
         | use more energy.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66910573
        
           | cush wrote:
           | Exactly. Reduce and Reuse Are the only valid paths for
           | plastic and Lego is the most reusable. Recycling plastic is
           | bullshit and single-use plastics should be banned.
        
           | SillyUsername wrote:
           | That's a really good point, it had crossed my mind. I do
           | wonder if at some point Lego will change to some sort of
           | subscriber model to keep shareholders happy. The Lego company
           | seems to be one of the last "good" companies to not want to
           | fleece customers, and that would be down to their part family
           | ownership I suppose. Pessimistically I think "all good
           | things...".
        
             | eichin wrote:
             | Fortunately, the "shareholders" are a couple of the
             | grandchildren of the founder; it is entirely family owned,
             | not publicly traded.
        
         | arcade79 wrote:
         | Oh wow. Not often I get as triggered by a comment where someone
         | is _wrong_ on the Internet as this. This has to be some of the
         | dumbest drivel I 've ever read in a comment about Lego.
         | 
         | The Lego sets I got as a kid in the 80s, have been built and
         | has been (and is!) being played with by my ten year old
         | daugher. Classics such as 6080 and 40567. Or lego space stuff
         | such as 6980, 6940, 6783 or a variety of the others she's been
         | playing with.
         | 
         | One of the big appeals of LEGO is that it's generational. It is
         | that the plastics produced 30, 40, 50 years ago is just as good
         | today in 2023, as it was in 1986. The utter baloney you're
         | coughing up would ruin one of the main great points about LEGO.
         | It would render it not generational toys but yet another bunch
         | of bollocks that expires after a few years.
         | 
         | And shove your anecdotes. I doubt you've got kids.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | Yeah, my kids visited their great-grandmother in Australia a
           | few years back, and out came the 1960s legos. Great fun was
           | had.
        
           | SillyUsername wrote:
           | How mature. I doubt you're older than 15 with a response like
           | that.
           | 
           | 15 years is not "bunch of bollocks that expires" - that's a
           | pretty good lifetime for any modern plastic toy, and if the
           | plastic is something like PLA, will just break down to
           | sugars.
           | 
           | What you fail to understand is the ABS plastic is just adding
           | to the pool of what will all become trash eventually, in 100
           | years we'll have a larger pile of this junk, whereas using a
           | biodegradable plastic the total amount may remain the same or
           | have declined.
           | 
           | You do you though, continue to buy new plastic bags at the
           | supermarket, favour plastic packaging, plastic cup straws,
           | all because you can "re-use" them. Oh wait, they've banned
           | them for a reason.
        
             | arcade79 wrote:
             | I'm 44.
             | 
             | Since '86, I've noticed that I've lost a 3 gray 2x1 full
             | size bricks for the Castle, two bricks for one of the
             | spaceships. Every single other model has all their bricks.
             | 
             | I despise the "planned obsolesce" bollocks some folks are
             | hell bent on pushing into everything. I cheer on lego not
             | to subscribe to it. I, and lots and lots of other
             | brickheads would probably abandon them in an instant if
             | they did.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | ? It's the one toy that does have a substantial long term
         | resale market. Not everything needs to be ephemeral. It's just
         | ABS, it's not asbestos.
        
         | dudul wrote:
         | Your anecdote is not an anecdote, it's a made up fact.
         | 
         | My son is way more excited by my old sets with pirates,
         | astronauts and castles than he is by the latest franchised crap
         | like marvel, Harry Potter and all.
         | 
         | Here, at least mine is a real anecdote.
        
           | SillyUsername wrote:
           | My son is not. He'd prefer the Batman and Spiderman sets as
           | opposed to the random old pieces his grand parents keep
           | offering him. Any kid who tells you they'd prefer old stuff
           | to new is lying, otherwise Lego'd be selling that old stuff
           | rather than the cross franchising they do today.
        
             | dudul wrote:
             | Maybe you should then question your parenting. I would be
             | so distressed if my kid was incapable of creating original
             | play without the support of a franchised movie.
             | 
             | Also, no my son is not lying to me.
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | > He'd prefer the Batman and Spiderman sets as opposed to
             | the random old pieces his grand parents keep offering him.
             | 
             | Good for him.
             | 
             | > Any kid who tells you they'd prefer old stuff to new is
             | lying,
             | 
             | The issue isn't preferring old stuff to new as much as
             | preferring what Lego used to make more of vs. what they
             | currently make more of, but, no, neither of those
             | preferences is nonexistent in individuals.
             | 
             | > otherwise Lego'd be selling that old stuff rather than
             | the cross franchising they do today.
             | 
             | No, _aggregate_ market demand, weighted by who has money to
             | spend (and people who aren 't even kids), doesn't indicate
             | any kid with contrary stated preference is lying. Humans
             | aren't mental carbon copy clones in slightly different
             | fleshsuits.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | > _...if Lego is mostly dumped after a kid grows up...
         | Anecdotally, most kids don 't want old Lego_
         | 
         | This is entirely wrong.
         | 
         | Nearly all the toys from my own childhood wound up in the
         | garbage or Goodwill at one point or another... except the
         | Legos. Kids want to build gigantic castles and spaceports of
         | their own -- 20x larger than any sets Lego sells -- and those
         | gigantic environments require having a ton of random assorted
         | pieces.
         | 
         | Legos seem to be the one toy that _doesn 't_ get dumped.
         | 
         | > _just look online at the moms selling old unwanted Lego
         | cheap_
         | 
         | That actually shows the opposite of what you're trying to say.
         | They're not tossing them in the garbage, they _are_ selling
         | them, because they 're still perfectly desirable. (Because not
         | everyone winds up with grandkids to give them to, or wants to
         | hold onto them until then.)
        
         | cush wrote:
         | It's true that on environmental timescales, all plastic is bad.
         | But Lego is probably the most durable and reusable use of
         | plastic for entertainment we have today.
         | 
         | Whatever logic brought you to the conclusion that reselling a
         | thing means it's no longer wanted is completely backwards. The
         | fact you are seeing tons of Lego for sale online is because
         | it's so damn desired and valuable. Landfills are not filled
         | with Lego. They're filled with textiles from the fast-fashion
         | industry and single-use plastics.
        
         | fleeno wrote:
         | Lego has got to be the lowest on the list for me as far as
         | concern about plastic use. Who throws away Lego? Post a couple
         | pounds of Lego on FB marketplace and see how fast it sells.
         | 
         | Some of our Lego is from the 1950s, and my daughter is the
         | third generation playing with it. Surely 60+ years of use is a
         | pretty good run for something made of plastic.
        
         | 303uru wrote:
         | They'll get there, the first stab just wasn't great. That said,
         | LEGO truly is multi-generational. My kids are playing with my
         | childhood LEGO and it looks close to new.
        
           | andruby wrote:
           | I've put my old lego in the dishwasher (you can use a "net")
           | and it comes out like new.
        
       | gaogao wrote:
       | I remembering learning about Polaroids from Lego Magazine's "no
       | Polaroid pictures" for submissions back in the day, so really
       | neat to see it as a set now.
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | This is so odd to me as someone who grew up in what was perhaps
         | peak Polaroid era. I remember house-shopping in the early 90s
         | and taking a Polaroid camera with me to take pictures of the
         | houses I saw. The other place it was really wonderful was when
         | I traveled to Chiapas and Guatemala at about that same time
         | with a Polaroid and was able to give family pictures to
         | Guatemalan refugees on the spot as a way of providing some
         | small joy for them.
        
       | nimajneb wrote:
       | Interesting read.
       | 
       | I guess I'm out $90 Jan 1st, lol. This set is amazing.
        
       | CodeNest wrote:
       | Verge article on Lego Polaroid stuff? Yeah, it's got details but
       | kinda skips the tough bits. Marc, the dude who made it, got lots
       | of no before this one clicked. They ain't show much how tough it
       | is to kick off your Lego idea. Sort a paints a wonky picture for
       | peeps thinkin' 'bout jumping into Lego design.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | The use of colourful bricks in areas that won't be seen is an
       | amazing improvement I discovered when my kids began getting Lego.
       | 
       | Last week I rebuilt two of my most cherished childhood sets[1]
       | and oh my goodness how did I ever do this as an 8-year-old? Every
       | step in the booklet is a minigame of "figure out what changed"
       | and then an eye exam of determining precisely where each piece
       | went.
       | 
       | [1]: https://imgur.com/v0fL4Xz
        
         | andruby wrote:
         | Oh my. I remember those sets! They were glorious indeed.
         | 
         | Do you have the lego number of those sets? Or the name?
         | 
         | Ps: I'm now taking a picture of every lego box I buy for my
         | kids. That way I have an archive with all the numbers. That way
         | we can always download the booklets years later, or catalogue
         | the collection with rebrickable
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | Behold in all their glory: https://www.toysperiod.com/lego-
           | set-reference/space/ice-plan...
           | 
           | And: https://www.toysperiod.com/lego-set-
           | reference/space/space-po...
        
         | cide1 wrote:
         | I agree, the instructions have improved greatly over the years.
         | I just rebuilt some of my childhood sets from the late 80's and
         | early 90's (mostly Town theme) and I was struggling at times.
         | My 6 year old son does well with pretty much all the modern
         | instructions regardless of the age (City, Batman, Speed,
         | Technic, Jurassic Park themes).
        
         | monknomo wrote:
         | love the snow space lego sets, I had that one too
        
       | andersrs wrote:
       | I detest what Lego has become. I cringe when I see most of the
       | sets are a movie themed fad which won't fit well with the rest of
       | your Lego. It's very clear Lego profits more when the planet is
       | filled up with more plastic crap. So I stick to the classic ones
       | which are timeless and versatile. I guess the themed sets are
       | designed for man-children collectors.
        
         | philips wrote:
         | Have you seen the "space" theme for next year?
         | 
         | It is the closest thing to a return to form I have seen in
         | recent years with focus on play features and story telling
         | without media tie in.
         | 
         | https://ramblingbrick.com/2023/12/03/there-is-space-for-ever...
        
       | grammers wrote:
       | Lego is so simple, and yet so genius.
        
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