[HN Gopher] How the Feds bounced Binance: Crypto isn't "incentiv...
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       How the Feds bounced Binance: Crypto isn't "incentive compatible"
        
       Author : haskellandchill
       Score  : 18 points
       Date   : 2023-12-16 21:39 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.programmablemutter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.programmablemutter.com)
        
       | jfengel wrote:
       | _Binance will not only help the US government monitor the money
       | flows (the argument of our book), but plausibly act act as a
       | regulatory super-spreader, transmitting "know your customer
       | rules" across the ecoystem like an epidemiological contagion (the
       | argument of an important academic article on 'viral governance'
       | by Gregoire Mallard and Jin Sun)._
       | 
       | Or, people will flood out to someone who hasn't been hit by that
       | "contagion", because the entire point is to have unregulated
       | money.
        
         | mjr00 wrote:
         | > because the entire point is to have unregulated money.
         | 
         | For some vanishingly small percentage of crypto-faithful,
         | maybe. For the vast majority, the point is to turn (regulated)
         | fiat money into more (regulated) fiat money. Or lose it all
         | trying.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Chainalysis monitors all public chains for law enforcement and
         | regulators. Monero, Zcash, and other privacy focused crypto can
         | be squeezed out under money laundering, KYC, AML laws and
         | regulations. Interestingly, violations of law have a permanent
         | record on an immutable blockchain. You simply need someone
         | technical to perform data analysis and hand it over to
         | enforcement.
         | 
         | TLDR there is always a throat to choke in meatspace.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainalysis
        
         | dsugarman wrote:
         | I don't really understand how any crypto is "unregulated money"
         | and it's intrinsically the most tracable money store
         | 
         | [Edited for some horrible mobile autocorrect attrocities]
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | There are fully anonymous transactions in some of the
           | cryptocurrencies, like in Zcash I believe. I thought such
           | innovations would overtake and make the original bitcoin
           | obsolete, but I've been very wrong, because bitcoin is still
           | popular.
        
             | I_Am_Nous wrote:
             | I think this fact points out the disparity between people
             | using crypto for ideological reasons and them using it for
             | investment reasons. Most people don't care about the
             | whitepaper, just that "stonks only go up" and buy
             | accordingly. So small, good projects aren't as reliable an
             | investment vehicle as a larger, more established coin that
             | is almost guaranteed to be sellable if needed.
        
           | jMyles wrote:
           | Obviously there are different points of view on this point,
           | but I view transparency and regularity as orthogonal
           | features.
           | 
           | Crypto is easy to make both transparent and regular.
        
           | block_dagger wrote:
           | Traceable via otherwise anonymous addresses. It's the de-
           | anonymization that's hard.
        
       | jongjong wrote:
       | My understanding of crypto (having worked in the industry for
       | years) is that it's not about decentralisation so much as it is
       | about reliability and transparency.
       | 
       | The decentralization aspect was mostly necessary in the early
       | days to avoid being shut down by government. Now that crypto is
       | widespread, it is not as important. What is important though are
       | things that are missing from our current fiat monetary system;
       | transparency and reliability.
       | 
       | While the fiat monetary system appears to be very reliable for
       | the individual, it is in fact extremely unreliable due to its
       | lack of transparency. Governments can easily manipulate the
       | supply (and therefore the true value) of currency behind the
       | scenes without your knowledge and that is one of the primary
       | mechanisms via which it steals wealth from individuals and
       | deprive them of opportunities.
       | 
       | Arguments against cryptocurrency are essentially saying that
       | these individuals who are being robbed and deprived of
       | opportunities don't matter because the system only needs to work
       | for rich people and fool the poor into thinking that it doesn't
       | harm them.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, many poor people understand exactly how the system
       | robs them.
       | 
       | - It devalues our salary contracts via inflation of buying power.
       | 
       | - Centralized currency creation centralizes opportunities due to
       | the Cantillon Effect and this creates an asymmetric playing field
       | which unfairly benefits corporations and large organizations.
       | 
       | - Given that income tax is levied against each transfer between
       | individuals, newly issued currency cannot travel very far from
       | the government money printers as each hop away from the printers
       | incurs a significant additional tax in the remaining untaxed
       | amount which keeps shrinking. This exacerbates the Cantillon
       | Effect and punishes regional areas and individuals who are far
       | from the centers of money printing.
        
         | dale_glass wrote:
         | > My understanding of crypto (having worked in the industry for
         | years) is that it's not about decentralisation so much as it is
         | about reliability and transparency.
         | 
         | None of those have panned out. Reliability and transparency
         | aren't there either, because the state of crypto so far is that
         | people keep on falling for scam after scam and getting screwed.
         | 
         | No, just like with the original concept of "Peer-to-Peer
         | Electronic Cash System", there's very few true believers that
         | are into it for any such reasons like decentralization,
         | reliability or transparency.
         | 
         | The vast, vast majority just wants to get rich. It's that
         | simple. The technical merits or characteristics of the
         | underlying system are completely unimportant to the vast
         | majority.
        
       | bragr wrote:
       | It is going to being very interesting to see all the prosecutions
       | that result from this. The feds know how to make good use of the
       | access they're about to have based what they've been able to do
       | with other exchanges' records.
        
       | dale_glass wrote:
       | > But the blockchain's entire purpose is political. If crypto is
       | no longer about teh magic of decentralization, then why would
       | anyone want to use it?
       | 
       | Making big $$$, obviously.
       | 
       | It's very clear that the whole decentralization tech angle failed
       | a long time ago. I had a passing interest, but completely lost it
       | around 2017-ish, when BTC blocks started filling up.
       | 
       | It seemed completely clear to me that a "Peer-to-Peer Electronic
       | Cash System" couldn't tolerate such dysfunction. Usage as cash
       | wasn't working. In the end capacity had to be promptly increased,
       | or obviously there'd be huge problems for everyone.
       | 
       | The first nail in the coffin was that blocks weren't expanded.
       | The second one was that while there were plenty alternatives, BTC
       | retained dominance, and that even forks that theoretically were
       | superior because they did what they were supposed to do far
       | better, BTC still won out.
       | 
       | So clearly I was wrong, BTC wasn't functioning as a "cash
       | system", and this obviously didn't matter to the BTC users, and
       | didn't matter to the world at large either.
       | 
       | Thus eventually it dawned on me that there were maybe a few
       | people out there that had some interest in a "Peer-to-Peer
       | Electronic Cash System" and the "tech", but the vast majority out
       | there were only interested in a world-wide game of hot potato,
       | where the only point is to accumulate coins early, then sell them
       | to some fool on the top, and cash out.
        
       | dist-epoch wrote:
       | When will Tether implode?
       | 
       | I've been reading about how that is imminent here for 3 years
       | now.
        
       | mgaunard wrote:
       | In practice people use the blockchain to move assets between
       | accounts tied to some of the many competing centralized trading
       | markets (of which Binance is only the biggest one).
       | 
       | They also use it for OTC transactions, which are typically also
       | hedged on centralized markets due to their uncertainty.
       | 
       | The centralized markets also function as banks, where you can
       | borrow or cross-margin your positions.
       | 
       | So it works, it's just that only using blockchain is not good
       | enough to deal with speculation needs and market volatility.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-16 23:00 UTC)