SUBJECT: MSG THREAD ON THE PHOENIX PROJECT FILE: UFO1542 PART 1 BBS: Flite-Line Date: 08-20-92 (13:25) Number: 5580 From: PARANET INFORMATION SERVI Refer#: NONE To: ALL Recvd: NO Subj: Our Response to Phoenix P Conf: (46) UFO(Fido) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo" * Originally from ParaNet Information Service * Originally dated 08-20-92 13:23 On 6 August 1992, ParaNet Information Service posted a preliminary statement on our investigation into an organization known as the Phoenix Project, which had recently released "investigative reports" entitled "The Dulce Report", "The K-2 Report", and "The Ultimate Secret". In our statement we pointed out some apparent problems with all three Phoenix Project reports, as well as some suspicious aspects of the Project's organization itself. In our conclusion, we issued a warning not to take the Phoenix Project reports at face value, pending further investigation. On 10 August 1992, Jack Mathias of the Phoenix Project responded in a long, rambling message posted to a number of bulletin boards and news groups. Unfortunately, rather than dealing with the substantive issues raised in our previous postings regarding the project and its publications, Mr. Mathias's statement consisted mostly of ad-hominem attacks impugning the motives, integrity, and competence of ParaNet's officers and investigators. Here is some typical language excerpted from the Phoenix Project statement: " ... you blew it ..." " ... a snap judgement without examining the evidence ..." " ... your spontaneous and instant negative reaction ..." " ... your attitude problem ..." " ... you abused your position of trust and responsibility ..." " ... inexcusable ... a new record for prejudice ..." " ... you've just won the Golden Fleece Award ..." " ... outstanding ineptness ..." " ... amateur sleuthing ..." " ... self-centered ..." " ... lacking any real expertise ..." " ... seated upon your starry throne ..." " ... elected yourself to be the final arbiter of the truth ..." " ... Judge, Jury, and Executioner ..." " ... Kangaroo Court Proceeding of your own fashioning ..." " ... arm-chair expertise ..." " ... laughable ..." Following paragraph after paragraph of this kind of personal invective, Mr. Mathias then suggests that: PP> In our opinion, the public deserves the truth regarding the real PP> story of UFO's, government involvement and the Alien threat. That PP> should be our objective. ... Perhaps you'll agree that, that PP> objective is more productive than entertaining the public via the PP> BBS links with a side-show of petty squabbles and bickering PP> between individuals and organizations. This is a noble sentiment, and one which we at ParaNet wholeheartedly agree with. Hopefully in the future the Phoenix Project's representatives will take some of their own advice and try to keep the rhetoric down to a more civilized level. Having said that, let's look at the actual issues raised by this latest salvo from the Phoenix Project, and see how they stack up. PP> Let us review the facts. You reacted by issuing a public warning PP> to the members of ParaNet, which was also widely distributed via PP> other BBS's nation-wide. That warning contained language which PP> implied the information, and the source, were highly suspect. PP> Thus, single-handedly, you created a strong impression throughout PP> the UFO community, that our information was false. Many sincere PP> people, trusting your qualifications, accepted your warning. True. PP> You took it upon yourself to make a snap judgement PP> without examining the evidence. False. We did not arrive at our conclusion single-handedly or instantaneously. Our analysis and the resulting warning were the products of considerable discussion among ParaNet's researchers and subscribers. They were also labeled as tentative, pending further investigation. PP> In your message, you mention that you wrote to the Phoenix Project, PP> after the fact and your preliminary judgement, requesting further PP> information. You made the same comment in other BBS messages. You PP> state that we did not respond to your request. You also imply, by PP> insinuation, that this is a mark against us and a further PP> indication that we are suspect. ... To date we have PP> not received your letter of inquiry. Apparently, of all the mail PP> we receive, your letter is the only one that has gone astray. We PP> can only conclude that is was either lost in the mail or you didn't PP> mail it. Did it ever occur to you to mail us a second request, PP> when you did not receive a response to your first inquiry? The letter was followed up with electronic mail to the Project's spokesman, Jack Mathias. The request for information was repeated through that channel. The request was refused. PP> But, this was not the end of your attitude problem regarding the PP> Phoenix Project. You did the same thing, again, issuing warnings, PP> etc., with our release of the K-2 and the Ultimate Secret Reports. PP> And, again, you had not seen or examined the supporting documents PP> at the time you issued those warnings to ParaNet and the public. We have already stated our reasons for suspecting the "K-2" and "Ultimate Secret" reports. As with the "Dulce" report, our suspicions went to the core of the entire concept and execution of both reports; consequently, it seemed unlikely that the "supporting documents" would make much difference. Our judgement in this matter was borne out when we received the "supporting documents" from another source. We were not impressed. PP> Would we be out of line in concluding that your mind was PP> already made-up? Yes, that would be out of line, since our minds were not and in fact are not yet entirely made up. Our warnings were tentative, and in our view totally justified. So far we have not been provided with any evidence to the contrary. If such evidence is provided, we will not only change our minds but say so publicly. PP> Fortunately, for the UFO Movement, other PP> investigators and researchers don't share your opinion. That's not the feedback we've been getting. PP> You state in your initial message that "much of the information in PP> the Dulce Report about Dulce and the Archuleta Mesa contradicts PP> information already provided to ParaNet by other capable PP> investigators." What information? Who provided it? How did you PP> determine its validity? Our information consists of the testimony of ParaNet investigators and others who have been in Dulce and on the Mesa. Their experiences were very different from what you describe, and it is difficult to reconcile your claims with the findings of our own people. PP> We formally request access to that PP> information. We'd like to examine it ourselves. Can we obtain PP> copies of "that" information? Our investigation continues, and the information will be made public when it is complete At that time we will be glad to provide you with a complimentary copy of our report. PP> Now, let us get to the main thrust of your message - your PP> investigation to reveal the personnel of the Phoenix Project. PP> PP> [several paragraphs of meaningless abuse deleted] ********************************************** * THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo * **********************************************