SUBJECT: SIXTO PAX, THE MAN WHO CAN "CALL DOWN" FILE: UFO1558 The following is an article from UFO UNIVERSE, Vol. 1, No. 3, June/July 1991. SIXTO PAZ-THE MAN WHO "CALLS DOWN" FLYING SAUCERS By Lisa Rome At 18 he had his first encounter. Now with many contacts under his belt, he is one of the most ad- mired UFO contactees in South America. EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW Sixto Paz is the head of GRUPO RAMA, an organization found- ed in 1974, when Sixto was 18 years old. His first physical contact with aliens was, he says, in October of 1974, in Chilca, a desert area 63 km south of Lima, Peru. Today, GRUPO RAMA has about ten thousand members in thirty- three countries around the world. The groups are made up of an average of twenty people. It is pretty standard that at least one or two members receive messages from ET guides in the form of automatic writing. Not all members have con- tacts, only a percentage of these people are privileged to have physical encounters. GRUPO RAMA's members meet about twice a year to have contact. The last meeting was in August of 1990 in Cuzco, Peru. Only members of RAMA are permitted to take part in these contacts. On five separate occasions since the group was founded, RAMA has invited the press to attend contacts so that they could objectively witness the presence of UFO's and ET's. The last contact for the press - which was grossly under-re- ported - was in March of 1989 in Chilca, the sight of Paz's original experience. Camera crews filmed the UFO's in the sky over Chilca. What happened with the filmed material afterward and what happened to Sixto Paz upon his attempt to enter the United States in 1989 is another typical, unexplained chapter in the annals of modern UFOlogy. For the most part, the members of GRUPO RAMA simply take Paz's word about his guides tell him as the truth. To them, he does seem to be "the man with all the correct answers." His manner is very casual and friendly. RAMA has a simple philosophy of peace, hope and harmony. The ET guides who contact Sixto and the members of RAMA come from a federation of ET's from different planets including: Siron, Xora, Morona, Cali (Andromeda) and Rugu (Alpha Centaurus). Members are supposed to lead a clean life and follow a spiritual path incorporating practices such as meditation into their daily lives. The interview that follows was conducted in July, 1990 in Paz's home in Lima and should serve as good introduction to Sixto Paz, an international figure who has an intense in- terest in seeing that the gospel of the aliens be spread as far and wide as possible. UFO Universe: You are a Peruvian from Lima? Paz: Yes UU: Could you please explain what is the GRUPO RAMA? Paz: It is a group of contactees who have contact with extraterrestrial beings. It started in Peru sixteen years ago and has members from thirty three nations. During the first year of contacts, I received contacts by automatic writing. The first year, we had the opportunity to invite journal- ists so that they could be witnesses to see the ships and so they would confirm that contact existed. We were simply young kids between the ages of sixteen and eighteen. We took this as a sign of luck and adventure. We never (at that moment) thought profoundly enough about the enormity or intensity of the whole thing. We received a message to go to the desert on February 7, 1974 and that there we would see a ship. The journalists verified that there was contact in the desert that night. Around Lima there is a desert where there are big stretches that are unpopulated. One can be undisturbed in these places. Our group of young people arrived (at the desert sight) and exactly at 9:00 PM saw from behind the hills of this desert, appear an object shaped like a disk, full of lights. It descended toward us. It stopped eighty meters above us. We all felt a great deal of fear and panic. Never had any of us felt such panic as we felt at that moment. Then they spoke to us--as though we could hear them speaking into our ears-- and they said: "You don't know how to control your emotions, you have to take some time for preparation before the next contact." Eight months later, the ship landed in the sane desert spot. It's landing gear looked like that of NASA's ship that had landed on the moon. UU: Three legs? Paz: What we saw were two legs in front, but I can't tell you what was in the back. It could have been four (legs). Afterwards, the mark in the ground showed four prints. At that moment, there were a lot of things that I didn't make note of. After we saw it, and it moved, we saw that it wasn't exactly a disk, it was more like a Manta Ray. From the ship, came a being about 2 1/2 meters tall, very tall, it's appearance was like a Scandanavian. The communication (with him) was all mental. We all heard in our heads what he said. UU: Did all twenty people in the group hear what was being transmitted? Paz: Yes, at the time of the first contact on February 7, 1974, we all saw and heard the same thing. At the time of the second contact, eight months later, there were only four people present for this experience...those who had the opportunity to get close, to see the ship come down and the beings get out. One month and a half later, Juan Jose Benitez of "Gazetta del Norte" from Viscaya in the north of Spain and EFE agency (the Peruvian AP) came with us after reading a notice in the paper about our contact. He asked us: "If these beings really want to have contact with us, why don't we have a test with journalists present? A photograph is always manipulable and people, even if they are many, are always subject to suggestion. Why don't you have an impartial or objective journalist present as a witness? This would give the experience more value." Anyway, we said we would ask and they (the ET's) told us: "Yes, they (the journalists) could come." He (Benitez) couldn't believe the answer. He didn't know whether to think we were crazy or not or if we were going to prepare some kind of a show for him. And so, that which we saw on September 7, 1974, made such a strong impression on him that he wrote the book "UFO's... S.O.S. to Humanity", the unusual experience of a Spanish journalist in Peru. He had never written a book before. In the book, he says: "In the end, I can only have faith in one thing: they were really UFO's-unidentified flying objects. I was profoundly afraid, profoundly happy and anguished." From that moment, he continued with abandon his UFO investigations. To date, he has published more than forty books. He has become a "pursuer" of UFO's. He goes everywhere where there have been sightings. He's spent many nights in deserts and fields where people say they have had experiences. Today, his investigations are of great depth. And, above all, he is personal journalist of the King of Spain. He works personally with the King. This is recognition of the seriousness of his objectivity. Above all, of the values that he retained to come out on top after witnessing and writing about a subject that was very "touchy" sixteen years ago after saying: I saw them, at least I can say I saw something." Fifteen years later, in March of 1989, we invited again, journalists, and about forty journalists came from eight countries. UU: Jacques Vallee, noted scientist, author and UFO investigator, in his most recent book "CONFRONTATIONS" says that there is not enough evidence today to make any conclusions about what is happening in the UFO world. PAZ: What is happening is that we don't have the elements within terrestrial science to be able to investigate, analyze, measure and quantify the UFO phenomena because these beings come from other dimensions to which we have no access. They come from a technological place which is far beyond what we know today. We have a series of barriers - barriers which even halt our speculation. Because, as of today, we have not been able to move to other planets...not even as far as Mars. We are sending satellites out to catch, within their capabilities, information which could be arriving in a very simple way. And we, rudimentary as we are, are very complicated. There are many things which we are failing to understand because our level is far below that of other civilizations. In a world such as ours where we spend so much money in armaments, where there's so much tension around the world and so many border problems, if all of this money, all of the scientific riches, that is: scientists working to develop arms and weapons, would be spent in another way, for the service of men, not only would there be no hunger or poverty in the world, we would long ago have put an end to barriers, like the barriers of light (travel). These are barriers that we can pass. There are not measures within today's science to analyze a thing like the UFO phenomena. It is certain, as Jacques Vallee says, that we must confront this information. And it is still difficult to do because the big nations guard their information as their own and keep it classified...Thus, the scientists continue to work in the dark trying to assemble a puzzle of 1,000 pieces with only 250 pieces. As long as the situation continues like this, it is going to be very difficult. UU: Do you think that the situation in the Soviet Union is different now that it has opened up, since the USA has dictated to western nations about how they should handle UFO information, but not to the Soviet Union for the last forty years? PAZ: This is the situation. I had the opportunity to attend the "Dialogue with the Universe" conference last year in Frankfurt and Sergei Vornsev, the TASS correspondent, spoke of the case in Voronezh, Siberia that was reported about September/October of last year. He had the opportunity to weigh the contradictory information which tried to negate the fact that the UFO had landed, that beings had come out and were accompanied by a little robot and that the witness was left with a "calling card" in the form of a red, stone-like crystal. Sergei certified the seriousness of the investigators. Scientists from the Geophysic Institute of Voronezh and that the kids from the middle school #33 saw separately, the same exact thing. Within the context of Peristroika inside the USSR, there are organizations within, who are competing with each other to be the most open with their information. So what happened is this: In the case of Voronezh, which is just one of many similar cases that have come up in recent years, the military tried to debunk the case together with the Ministry of the Interior. WHY? Because these two agencies have not yet recuperated from the scandal of the landing of the plane in Red Square by a West German boy. This (event) showed the Soviet defense systems to be obsolete and that with this event, they couldn't account for all the money being spent on the edge of the twenty-first century for technological development. Our planet is so small. So they can't accept publicly that extraterrestrial beings are coming from very advanced civili- zations into Soviet airspace and that they permit themselves to land in a public park and take with them - as though it were a dog on a walk - a little robot. It is scandalous. It is a blow to the morale of the armed forces. They should be guarding the air space and guarding the Soviet Union. This is why armies exist. If they (the ET's) had wanted to harm us, they could have done so long ago. The ET presence continues to be systematically hidden. For instance, in January of 1986, when the Challenger was in the air, there was a UFO nearby at the time it exploded. Three months later at the time of the disaster at Chernobyl, many UFO's were seen around Europe when the nuclear cloud went overhead. The UFO's followed the cloud and strangely, the cloud came from and returned to the same place. UU: How do you know that the UFO's were around at that time? PAZ: Because I was in Europe when the cloud passed over. The photograph of the UFO that was close to the Challenger was published here in Peru in the newspaper "Commercio" and in the magazine "Somos". UU: Why wasn't this photo printed all over the world? PAZ: Well, there are times when we see things in papers and they are tiny little photos with a tiny little notice underneath. Some newspapers give them importance and some don't. There are places where they say that there is freedom of the press. But the truth is that the freedom of the press is only for certain things. The subject of UFO's continues to be treated with much prudence. Either because there's political pressure or psychological pressure. In Europe, they think that anyone who investigates these things is not very serious, is ignorant, like Christopher Columbus. There are many people who have pre-conceptions and those who have pre-conceptions have no access to the truth. I want to show the relationship to what happened in Chernobyl, in April of '86 with reactor #4 and with Challenger. So, you have January and April of '86 and in the month of June in the same year, the United States and the Soviet Union had an emergency meeting in Geneva and they signed a pact and the news came out in the papers that they signed a pact of mutual aid in the case of extraterrestrial aggression. This is ridiculous! They have spent more than two hundred million dollars in projects of investigation and statistics to demonstrate to the public that UFO's don't exist to the people of the USA. Spending the taxpayers' money. How can it be that they can't agree on basic things, important and transcendental things, yet, they agree and sign a pact of mutual aid in the case that "they" invade us...IN CASE WHO INVADES US? WHO? UU: Speaking of international organizations, you have spoken to the United Nations, haven't you? PAZ: I spoke at the U.N. in New York on August 13th and 22nd of August in 1986. I was invited to speak by the "Mystics Club", made up by the members of the United Nations. There were also many journalists present who cover various kinds of information within the U.N. The original invitation was only for the 13th, but they were so interested, that they invited me to come back again on the 22nd. And they told me that the doors of the United Nations would always be open to me. The interesting thing about my talk was that they weren't interested so much about how the ship was or if the being had two or three eyes, the interesting thing to them was WHAT THEY THOUGHT ABOUT US, how they see us, if they thought we have hope. So that which I shared with these people was the MESSAGE OF RAMA. We must take into consideration that there are many contactees that say many different things because of the way the contactee perceives things, so we must be careful in this sense. RAMA, the group of contactees in Peru, is not the only, nor is it the most important group - it is simply one of many. However, it has a place in history as it has invited journalists, the last time in March of 1989, to see that the UFO's are there and in contact. The message that I was referring to before is a message of hope. According to the ET's, man can create that in which he believes. If we believe that there is hope in the world and if we make a responsible promise for (the world), we can get the world to change. If, on the contrary, we think that things have no solution, we are self-programming our own destruction. Even the 16th century prophet Nostradamus said that the future is reversible. The prophesies were made not so they would happen, but so they WOULDN'T happen. There are many people who want the prophesies to come to pass, but no, it is a truth that will help us to modify the future. How many people dreamed that they might die woke up and did something about it, like the people who ripped their ticket for passage on the Titanic in two? These people CHANGED their future. It is easier to change the future of an individual than to change the future of many people, but this, too, can be done. We must only try. The ET's tell us that the world is a "big project", we are NOT laboratory rats, our world is NOT a farm as some SCIENCE FICTION writers in the United States who write about ABDUCTIONS and kidnappings (by aliens), all of this talk is an assembly of what is called: THE POLITICS OF POISONING OF INFORMATION, putting into people's heads a contradiction of the truth. UU: What, then, is the truth? PAZ: Lamentably, in a certain way, it is something with which we can experiment with directly. On one hand, we can experiment with it in many ways...we can go through it with our instinct and with intuition, the sixth sense, ESP...or even with common logic, logic is the most common of the senses. In a universe as dense as ours, there has to be the possibility that there is life...the possibility is incredible. Here on Earth - Earth which is a little dot of sand - we have men, for instance, who go around naked, eating what they can from trees as they did one million years ago. UU: Wait, what about the BAD ET's, the "GRAYS", that seem to be not so good? PAZ: This is just what I want to say to you. This is relative to the forces of good and bad. Think of this: A group of beings come "down" to make a scientific investigation...I'm not trying to justify them, alright...and they come and take samples - or they take a person inside a ship, take their clothes off and make a series of analyses...Anyway, these beings, it's not as though they have come with the intention to make us suffer or to hurt us. This is entering into Bud Hopkin's or Whitney Streiber's territory where they try to make the ET's look like mad scientists...or the keepers of concentration camps, like in WWII. It's not like that, that is false. I don't have anything against the USA, the Soviet Union, or anybody for that matter, however, the "Big Nations" have within their "war politics", not only psychological war, but astral and psychic warfare as well. It is known that at various North American bases that there are people who specialize in psychic development, the power of psychic power and psychic manipulation. With this tool, they can imprint in the subconscious of people images which are hallucinations and which make the people believe that they have been abducted. Don't you think it's strange, for example, that these beings that come to Earth and take the people into their ships use syringes, "injectors" just like ours? In the book by Whitney Streiber, for example, the GRAYS even use little tubes to cut off circulation. It seems to me that these are all examples of psychological programming. UU: So, what are those little gray men, the ones we call "GRAYS"? PAZ: Look, if in this world, we have Pygmies - we have little beings - why can't we have little people? The problem is that we want to believe that because someone or something is little or ugly or different, they must be bad. This is an example of Chauvinism on the part of Man. I don't want you to think that I am being an advocate of the ET's. There is EVERYTHING in the Universe...There are those which we call "the good ones" and there are "the bad ones", too, but very few "bad ones" have come to Earth. UU: So, the "bad ones", then aren't the "Grays"? PAZ: Some of these grays - and there are many types of grays...tall ones...little ones - it is not that they are aggressive because it is their plan to be harmful, it's just because they are here for their own self-interest. Often, self-interest is the need for survival. There are some species and civilizations who are almost extinct. For about twenty years, our planet has been in a sort of quarantine, because of these other civilizations, who are not allowed to come only in their own self-interest , to interfere in the history of Humanity, because the Earth is a t a moment of crisis, by definition. So, we have a certain kind of protection. These books of Whitney Streiber are cases of psychological manipulation on behalf of the USA, of the governments. With all due respect to these writers, please remember that Whitney Streiber was a science fiction and horror writer. His stories use many themes that appeal to the literary tastes of the U.S. including morbidism and sadism. For what? To create this situation. When you talk about the Matrix information or about William Moore or about those government "confidants" who have made revelations - the "Condors", the "Falcons", ex-members of the CIA, what they have all said publicly, all these things are false. So, in the end, one gets to the point of wondering: What IS the truth? What it is that they're trying to create is a mildew of disinformation, an information chaos or on the other hand a (chaos) of fear that makes one think "Oh, I'd better not get involved with these things, because sooner or later, someone is going to hurt me." On one hand, the government says: "These things don't exist", on the other hand, the government filters information that makes people think that they (aliens) do exist and that they are terribly, terribly bad. On yet another hand, they filter another kind of information that is contradictory and the (poor) investigators find themselves with nothing in their hands that is of any help at all. In this type of atmosphere, it is difficult to have access to anything solid or consistent. So, what I can tell you from being in contact with these beings, is that most of all this information that is going around is not real. I tell you that is all manipulation. I have also found out that the alleged pact signed at Holloman Air Force Base in 1964 is also an untrue story. UU: How do you know that this story is false? PAZ: Because I have extraterrestrial contact. The act of being involved with these things and having demonstrated a certain level of seriousness for sixteen years has allowed me to speak on a certain level. One must tread in this territory sure of the pureness of their own contacts. One must go with caution and not fall into the catastrophic messages predicting the end of the world and mix these messages up with God and religion. It's real easy to fall into this error or even let people "take you away" with the information that they bring to you. One is a lot better off with information that one can verify themself. Until now, we (RAMA) has been able to maintain this standard. At times we are even able to verify through other investigators, messages that we have received. Little by little, the truth is coming to light and it isn't true that the United States has signed an accord with the ET's. Do you honestly think that the ET's would sign an agreement with the U.S. to sequester and experiment upon people? They could very well go to China or India where there are lots of people and there are no international organizations that investigate the millions of people who disappear. None of this makes much sense and it sounds like it's straight out of a movie. UU: Aren't there abductions in Peru? PAZ: There have been cases of abduction here in Peru. UU: Like the typical ones of those of the "Grays"? PAZ: No, we don't have them here, nor in Chile. There are cases, but not ones where the people are sequestered and forced. The ships come down, they invite you up, you go up, then they show you things, then they talk to you about things, then soon they take you back down. Taxi drivers, military men, policemen, many people have lived through this. But, there isn't this type of case where the people are taken by force. UU: Why do some people have contact and people don't, or someone who wants to have contact can't? PAZ: This always depends more on the ET's than it does on us. It is they who communicate with us and not us who communicate with them. They select the people. But, they don't necesarily select people who are easily manipulated. Often, they choose either young or very simple people; people so simple that when they receive these messages with a lot of knowledge, they make a big impression on the investigators and the scientists. Surely, they figure something must have happened when these simple people demonstrate the (new) capacity they have. Something had to have happened. They choose young people because generally, they don't have many preconceptions. UU: But, in RAMA, one can prepare oneself to have contact? PAZ: Naturally, one can prepare to have contacts, but it always depends more on them than it does on us. What one must do simply is to sensitize oneself. One must learn to relax, to try to control one's mind with meditation. What happened is this - five thousand years ago when ET's had tight contact with various colonies in India, these were the same exercises that they taught them - meditation, introspection - to fortify their will. What they taught was to fortify their will so they couldn't be manipulated, not by anyone or anything...not by ET's nor by their own consciousness. UU: How many people are in each group? PAZ: Between fifteen and thirty. UU: Are they specifically made with fifteen to thirty people or does it just happen like that? PAZ: We prefer groups of twelve, they're easier to move around. It's difficult to have this ideal number and most groups have between fifteen and thirty. There are groups in thirty-three countries at the moment. We calculate that there are more or less ten thousand members. There are people in Australia, Tahiti, in all of the South American countries, the U.S., Mexico, Spain, France, Switzerland, Germany, South Africa, and those are the major countries...Oh, and the Soviet Union. There are three groups in the USSR, two in Moscow and one in another state. The third group was formed by a woman, an electrical engineer, who joined in the Dominican Republic and then returned home to the Caucasus. They not only let her talk on the radio, but allowed her to have meetings in various libraries. I have an invitation to go in October. I haven't been yet. The formation of these groups coincides with the last year when things began to open up. UU: We spoke of the contact that you had last year in March. What were the words of this invitation? PAZ: I had a message through automatic writing, it came to me when I was meeting with a group of about thirty people in the Dominican Republic, in the city of Santiago. Sometimes one or two people receive messages and other times more people might receive messages. There we were and EIGHT of us received the messages. We try to check the reception so it does not become a "message hunt" - because one can easily lose the sense of equilibrium. It's hard to maintain oneself in a serious, balanced and objective way in these things. Anyway, the messages said: For the month March, 1989. The message was received on the 10th of February, 1989 and we were told to invite journalists to come to Peru after the 24'th of March. There would be a planned sighting for the press in Lima, Peru, in Chilca, 63 km from Lima in the south in the desert. Chilka is where I had my first contact sixteen years ago and where I went inside the ship when the sip came down and we went inside and they took us up. This happened in very few cases...perhaps once every two years. UU: Are the ET's just in the ships or they also here with us? PAZ: They have told us that some of the civilizations have a few of their beings living amongst us, living with us all over the world. There are some civilizations that have beings very similar in appearance to us or they can assume our appearance. So they can live with us. UU: Can you tell they're ET's? PAZ: It's very difficult. It's very difficult because they have to be the kind of people who pass unperceived. Otherwise, they couldn't live among us. Anyway, today we see all people as being so strange, that our last thought is if they are ET's or not. We wonder about people who come from the East Village in New York where you see such weird people walking on the street. You wonder more if they are exhibitionists than if they're ET's. In any case, you're usually too afraid to go near enough to ask! UU: Getting back to last year's contact - I don't think it was so effective internationally, as very few people heard about it. The ET's made a preparation to have the contact, but even people in the United States, important investigators, still haven't heard anything about this contact. I'm still telling people about it as NEWS - they haven't even heard of RAMA. PAZ: I want you to understand one thing: We are not running a popularity contest. For example, here you have (he demonstrates) a copy of one of our books. You cannot buy this book, we don't sell it. We are trying to demonstrate not only that the contact is real, we are also trying to demonstrate our intentions. In this book, for example, we tell about how (RAMA) started and the experiences of our contacts, the development of the contacts, etc. We share this book. "The ET Guides and the RAMA Mission: with people who are interested, like press people...we share this type of literature. We've done it this way because it is not good enough to be good, you also have to look good. The best demonstration that RAMA is real is simply NOT to sell it, but to, invite little by little in a slow methodical way, journalists, we have invited them five times, the last time was in March of '89 - the first time was in September of '74. We invited the journalists as witnesses to be objective and impartial. We aren't saying "THIS IS REAL", we are leaving it up to the journalists to say if it is real. So this is the way we have been doing it. We are just a group who contributes to one more test of demonstration, one of many. If I say to you here and now that I saw this ball-like thing flying around and it did this and that, and there were ET's while you are filming, someone will always say this was all pre-arranged - it's a show! There will never be sufficient proof until the politics of hiding information and silencing of information, until the government says..."We have proof, we have UFO's in a hangar." Until one of the astronauts like Armstrong or Collins or whoever says: "I had an experience - I saw them.", people always say , "He's just an astronaut, maybe he went crazy, maybe he saw something." There are many people in the U.S., who until the government says it's true, won't believe. So, if the government says "The sun is green.", people will say, "The sun isn't green, but if the government says so, so it must be." So, there are many people who believe the official information. In the meantime, until the government says something different, the people will continue to believe that which is official. UU: Can you enter the United States today at will? Didn't you have a problem last year in Miami entering the country? PAZ: Yes, I did have a problem. I had a visa to enter the U.S., an indefinite multi-entry. UU: All of your papers were in order? PAZ: Correct. All of my papers were in order. I have traveled to the U.S. about twenty five or thirty times, to a conference at Columbia University, at John F. Kennedy in San Francisco, to the United Nations, invited by Channel 23 and 51 in Miami on various occasions. I never had any problems. I have had and used up almost 5 passports from all the travelling I have done. I had all of the stamps in my passport. I have never stayed in the U.S. for more than fifteen days. I have never demonstrated any kind of wrong behavior. Yet, my trouble happened after the contact of last year. During April, the journalists went back to the U.S. to spread the information (about the March contact). What happened? It seemed as though there was a strong opposition to the journalists. They returned with their filmed mater- ial, two people from one channel and five people from another channel. They had planned to prepare a special one hour program for the U.S. and distribute it internationally, if the material came out well and it had. They had come to Peru to film with that intention. So, what happened was that they got back to the U.S. and they called me and said, "Listen, Sixto, we have encountered a very strong opposition. The management of the channel has told us that we can't do the one hour special and they wouldn't let us broadcast this news on a national level - only on a local level - a three minute story!" How could it be that they went to all this expense to send the journalists to Peru, a country with social tension and terrorism, to do a three minute story? They had this great exclusive story that they had witnessed the reality of this important thing. Don't you think it's a bit strange? They said: "Listen, Sixto, it seems that the management of the channel received an order that this news be treated in the most silent form possible, as though it was frivolous, to give the story the littlest possible coverage. We were surprised. We didn't believe you when you told us about the politics of censorship. Now that we have seen it first hand, we don't know what to say." So, they invited me to go to Miami to Channel 23 so that I would go speak (to the management) and give them support. I went with the invitation, the airline ticket, the hotel voucher and everything. I arrived at the airport in Miami. I went to the immigration window, we spoke and they asked me to step aside with a federal guard. I thought that this was some kind of a random check, so naturally, I went along. Anyway, I spent ten hours incommunicado, they didn't even allow me to make ONE phone call! UU: What were the charges? PAZ: Nothing, they told me nothing. They took me to the runway. THE RUNWAY, in one of those closed cars. Then they made me go up into the plane from the runway. They then handed me my passport with the VISA CANCELLED without offering me any kind of explanation. UU: So, now you can't enter the U.S.? PAZ: Wait, the affair is like this: I wrote to the immigration office in the U.S. a declaration explaining how I'd been mistreated. How I wasn't offered any explanation as to WHY I was mistreated, even though my papers were in order. Grupo RAMA, in the U.S. received a reply which explained that there had been a confusion, that they were very sorry and that they would re-instate my visa. UU: So, do you have your visa now? PAZ: No, we have requested it, but it seems to be a transaction that takes a long time, a strangely long time. UU: It's been about a year now, hasn't it? PAZ: Yes, doesn't it seem like an awfully long time to you? UU: Yes, that's why I would still like to know what the charges were. PAZ: I've already told you, there weren't any. I really should have protested. It's not possible that they can detain a person for TEN hours without letting him see anyone, without letting him eat, in a country that is based on freedom and is so concerned about human rights. I tell you, it leaves one a lot to think about. UU: What do your guides say about the caves and caverns under the sacred mountains of PERU? PAZ: They say first, that The Earth is not hollow. The Earth is covered with tunnels and caverns, reminiscent of Jules Verne's "Voyage to the Center of the Earth." Inside these tunnels and caverns, live remnants of other civilizations, beings left over from other civilizations which have disappeared. There are also archives of information in three caverns in Peru which contain the information about the past history of our planet. UU: Do the beings from these other civilizations still live in these caverns? PAZ: Few "intraterrestrials" still live there, many used to live there. Underneath South America, there still exists a part of this civilization. UU: Are these the beings we refer to as REPTILES? PAZ: Well, it's not that they're reptiles, it's that their pigmentation is a little green, because they are subject to t light/energy that allows them to live underground in an almost artificial way; so it gives them a green skin tone. This could be interpreted as reptile, but it isn't like that. They are called INTRATERRESTRIALS. UU: Do people that have had UFO contacts have stronger psychic powers than others? PAZ: You see, from the time that they experience such contact, their psychic faculties become more sensitive. They would not necesarily have had these powers previous to their encounter. We all have psychic powers. They develop or are born with some people. They can also develop with some kind of exercise or practice or with some particular kind of circumstance. Most people who didn't have any special type of faculty, have their own faculties moved or awakened from the time that they first undergo a contact experience. End Interview. ******************************************** * THE U.F.O. BBS http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo * ********************************************