SUBJECT: UFO CONTROVERSY FILE: UFO2606 #: 133519 S10/Paranormal Issues 05-Feb-88 21:01:41 Sb: Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: All As temporary SysOp for the Paranormal subsection , until Jim Speiser can return, I am proposing a series of threads. The series would be based on: . "What if UFO are really extraterrestrials and the US gov't admits they have been aware of them for forty years." . Continuing, the senario, the gov't also admits that they have no control over the "visitors" but they believe the ETs to be harmless scientists from another civilization studying us as we would study animals in, say, Africa." Each week we will discuss the theoretical impact on different aspects of our civilization. Possible subject would be the impact on: . The stock market Defense budget Public opinion Space program Education Entertainment industry etc. . How many would be interested in participating in these discussions? If you are interested what aspect of our society would you like to see discussed? Would you prefer to have a weekly conference or "Gee great idea Ted but no thanks." All of the above are valid responses. Any takers? #: 133608 S10/Paranormal Issues 06-Feb-88 21:07:31 Sb: #133519-Controversy Fm: John Aultman 72716,2731 To: Ted Markley 76067,3777 (X) Ted, the idea sounds good. I think that there is sound reason for giving the subject of UFOs investigation; that there is solid evidence to support the reality of the phenomenon; and that one of the possible explanations is ETs. I am well aware of the scientific community's reluctance to pay attention to the phenomenon, and the see-saw interest the general public gives to it. As I have stated to Jim, until we, the "UFO community" get our act together, neither science or the public is going to give the subject the attention it deserves. Now, with that out of the way, the idea you suggested is a good one. With ETs as one highly possible explanation, we must give thought to what the impact of just that would be on society; not what the impact would be if our CIA is in cohorts with the ETs. That brings up another set of questions, which are many of the same raised by other events in recent times: how much can we trust our own government. One aspect you didn't mention was religion. Being in the deep south, in the heart of the fundamentalist bible belt, such a revelation would have dramatic affect on religion, especially the fundamentalist. I have have a number of individuals in this area who are of the fundamentalist sect, get disturbed with me just over my mentioning the possibility that UFOs are anything but creations of the devil. At any rate, the idea is a good one, and put my vote down for it. Can't promise that I will be able to participate much due to having to use long distance to get into Compuserve, but I will if and when I can. John #: 133631 S10/Paranormal Issues 07-Feb-88 10:41:59 Sb: #133608-Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: John Aultman 72716,2731 John, Thanks for your reply. Not being one who is a follower of any of the more popular religious Faiths I hadn't considered that as a first topic. However now that you brought it up and I have had time to ponder the subject I think it is quite a good one. I am from the northern mid-west and have spent most of my years in or around big cities (currently 30 miles from NYC). Folks in these areas tend not to be of the "Fire and Brimstone" thinking variety. Subsequently those of us whom frequent these environments tend to become inbred, so to speak, and don't recognize there is a whole world of thinking that may be just as valid. The thought simply never occurred to me that a large body of people would think of extraterrestrials as "creations of the devil." (Evil - possibly but satan inspired - no.) Thinking back to my college days in a small southern Ohio town and the Sunday night Revival meetings that went on I can now see your point. What impact do you believe such a revelation as visitor from another world would have on the deep south folk? #: 133866 S10/Paranormal Issues 10-Feb-88 19:33:50 Sb: #133631-Controversy Fm: John Aultman 72716,2731 To: Ted Markley 76067,3777 (X) Ted, I've thought about this a little since Saturday, and it would have impacts on religion, or at least I think it would. The exact reaction or effect is hard to tell. The devoutly fundementalist can react in ways one wouldn't expect: they can condeem (sp?) such practices as drinking, but can be just as quick to take a "repentant" drinker to heart. I've seen this go as far as to elect someone to public office on the basis of having gotten drunk in public, and then making a "forgiveness" speech. That life might exists elsewhere in the universe is a concept that many fundamentalists don't even begin to consider a valid theory: God created the heavens and the earth, and then created man to inhabit it. Other segments of the Christian religion aren't so harsh with scientific theory as fundamentalists (or so it has been my experience). One possibility would be a total loss of faith in their religion (no pun intended). What could happen from there I can't say: you might see some suicide, but then again, you might not. No doubt, some would still comdemn the aliens as dillusions of the devil, and some would come up with things I can't comprehend: three years ago I wouldn't have believed that Pat Robertson would finish in the top three in the Iowa presidental primary. Then again, fundamentalists might just adapt to the situation and welcome "our brothers". One never can tell. Exploration of the earth, and discovery of the new world, no doubt had effects on religion: the Christian religion today is nothing like what it was 200 years ago, and certainly nothing like it was 600 years or 1000 years ago. However, proof of alien life would present a challenge to fundamentalists, and possibly have more of an effect on all religions, not just fundamentalist Christians, or just Christianity, than any of us might think. John #: 133877 S10/Paranormal Issues 10-Feb-88 21:18:26 Sb: #133866-Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: John Aultman 72716,2731 John, You are obviously much more informed on this subject that I. But I would like to ask a question. Do you think that the fundamentalists have a strong devotion to their earthly leadership (Ala Pat Robertson?) If so then I contend that the leadership is fairly "street wise" when it comes to realities of the world. If they accept the ET's then I expect their followers will without caos and suicide. (I also expect that with sufficient evidence - and it would take a lot - Pat Roberston would find a way to rationalize to ET's with their teachings of GOD.) What say you? #: 133913 S10/Paranormal Issues 11-Feb-88 07:17:21 Sb: #133866-Controversy Fm: Tom Mickus 76650,1021 To: John Aultman 72716,2731 Why isolate the effects the EBE's would have on just fudamentalists? I am more in agreement with the direction your last statement was taking, in that most ALL religions would be affected in some way by their coming out into the open, as in official "Contact" being made. Personally, I can't see too many positive results of such an event, at least in the beginning. Unless the EBE's can incorporate their eexistence in some way that won't upset the various religions' traditions and dogmas, their existence can be nothing short of traumatic for those who don't know quite where to put them in their scheme of things .order their day to day lives. According to LEAR.TXT, the EBE's say that they created Christ. As I've told John before, such an announcement would seem to be foolish, in that they would create mass confusion among millions upon millions of people as they unexpectedly found their belief systems pulled uup from underneath them. Purposeless, unless this is precisely the desired efeffect of the EBEs, to supplant belief in Christ for the alternative, which is what?, in THEM?? From the sounds of things, they have a lot to be desired. The effects of aliens finally coming out into the open, and being officially recognized are going to be like nothing this world has ever sseen. And by attacking peoples belief systems, the part that makes peoples' lives understandable; by attacking the "jugular" so to speak, confusion will no doubt reign among the world populace. And just when we're weak and embattled... -Tom #: 133631 S10/Paranormal Issues 07-Feb-88 10:41:59 Sb: #Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: John Aultman 72716,2731 (X) John, Thanks for your reply. Not being one who is a follower of any of the more popular religious Faiths I hadn't considered that as a first topic. However now that you brought it up and I have had time to ponder the subject I think it is quite a good one. I am from the northern mid-west and have spent most of my years in or around big cities (currently 30 miles from NYC). Folks in these areas tend not to be of the "Fire and Brimstone" thinking variety. Subsequently those of us whom frequent these environments tend to become inbred, so to speak, and don't recognize there is a whole world of thinking that may be just as valid. The thought simply never occurred to me that a large body of people would think of extraterrestrials as "creations of the devil." (Evil - possibly but satan inspired - no.) Thinking back to my college days in a small southern Ohio town and the Sunday night Revival meetings that went on I can now see your point. What impact do you believe such a revelation as visitor from another world would have on the deep south folk? *** There are replies: 133866, 134014 *** More *** #: 133866 S10/Paranormal Issues 10-Feb-88 19:33:50 Sb: #133631-#Controversy Fm: John Aultman 72716,2731 To: Ted Markley 76067,3777 (X) Ted, I've thought about this a little since Saturday, and it would have impacts on religion, or at least I think it would. The exact reaction or effect is hard to tell. The devoutly fundementalist can react in ways one wouldn't expect: they can condeem (sp?) such practices as drinking, but can be just as quick to take a "repentant" drinker to heart. I've seen this go as far as to elect someone to public office on the basis of having gotten drunk in public, and then making a "forgiveness" speech. That life might exists elsewhere in the universe is a concept that many fundamentalists don't even begin to consider a valid theory: God created the heavens and the earth, and then created man to inhabit it. Other segments of the Christian religion aren't so harsh with scientific theory as fundamentalists (or so it has been my experience). One possibility would be a total loss of faith in their religion (no pun intended). What could happen from there I can't say: you might see some suicide, but then again, you might not. No doubt, some would still comdemn the aliens as dillusions of the devil, and some would come up with things I can't comprehend: three years ago I wouldn't have believed that Pat Robertson would finish in the top three in the Iowa presidental primary. Then again, fundamentalists might just adapt to the situation and welcome "our brothers". One never can tell. Exploration of the earth, and discovery of the new world, no doubt had effects on religion: the Christian religion today is nothing like what it was 200 years ago, and certainly nothing like it was 600 years or 1000 years ago. However, proof of alien life would present a challenge to fundamentalists, and possibly have more of an effect on all religions, not just fundamentalist Christians, or just Christianity, than any of us might think. John *** There are replies: 133877, 133913 *** More *** #: 133877 S10/Paranormal Issues 10-Feb-88 21:18:26 Sb: #133866-#Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: John Aultman 72716,2731 (X) John, You are obviously much more informed on this subject that I. But I would like to ask a question. Do you think that the fundamentalists have a strong devotion to their earthly leadership (Ala Pat Robertson?) If so then I contend that the leadership is fairly "street wise" when it comes to realities of the world. If they accept the ET's then I expect their followers will without caos and suicide. (I also expect that with sufficient evidence - and it would take a lot - Pat Roberston would find a way to rationalize to ET's with their teachings of GOD.) What say you? --TED *** There is a reply: 134101 *** More *** #: 134101 S10/Paranormal Issues 13-Feb-88 20:39:00 Sb: #133877-#Controversy Fm: John Aultman 72716,2731 To: Ted Markley 76067,3777 (X) Ted, it has been my experience that most religous individuals who choose to follow fundamentalist ministers are strongly devoted to them and very strongly follow their lead. It takes something very drastic to shake their faith in those like Robertson. If sufficient evidence could be provided (even short of actual open, undeniable contact by the ETS) then the fund. ministers would almost be forced to somehow rationalize them, and would in ways I can't foresee. These ministers are very 'street wise'. I've seen solid evidence of some deeds done by these ministers that ranks right with a lot that 'organized crime ' has done. They will do almost anything to protect what they have built, and recent events have brought some attention to that. The big question (other than the actions taken by these ministers) would be just how big a 'shock' would proof of the reality of ETs be to individuals who belong to fundamentalist (and other) religions. Would it be sufficient to shake their faith in the guidance of the ministers? Probably the only way to know would be to see it happen. John *** There is a reply: 134226 *** More *** #: 134226 S10/Paranormal Issues 15-Feb-88 12:22:27 Sb: #134101-Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: John Aultman 72716,2731 If you can believe John Lear (SEE LEAR.TXT and LEAR.CO in DL10) we won't have long to wait. Seriouly though, I think the 'street wise' minister would jump on so fast your head would spin. *** More *** #: 133913 S10/Paranormal Issues 11-Feb-88 07:17:21 Sb: #133866-#Controversy Fm: Tom Mickus 76650,1021 To: John Aultman 72716,2731 (X) Why isolate the effects the EBE's would have on just fudamentalists? I am more in agreement with the direction your last statement was taking, in that most ALL religions would be affected in some way by their coming out into the open, as in official "Contact" being made. Personally, I can't see too many positive results of such an event, at least in the beginning. Unless the EBE's can incorporate their eexistence in some way that won't upset the various religions' traditions and dogmas, their existence can be nothing short of traumatic for those who don't know quite where to put them in their scheme of things .order their day to day lives. According to LEAR.TXT, the EBE's say that they created Christ. As I've told John before, such an announcement would seem to be foolish, in that they would create mass confusion among millions upon millions of people as they unexpectedly found their belief systems pulled uup from underneath them. Purposeless, unless this is precisely the desired efeffect of the EBEs, to supplant belief in Christ for the alternative, which is what?, in THEM?? From the sounds of things, they have a lot to be desired. The effects of aliens finally coming out into the open, and being officially recognized are going to be like nothing this world has ever sseen. And by attacking peoples belief systems, the part that makes peoples' lives understandable; by attacking the "jugular" so to speak, confusion will no doubt reign among the world populace. And just when we're weak and embattled... -Tom *** There is a reply: 134103 *** More *** #: 134103 S10/Paranormal Issues 13-Feb-88 20:53:21 Sb: #133913-#Controversy Fm: John Aultman 72716,2731 To: Tom Mickus 76650,1021 (X) Tom, it got started on fundamentalist probably because I've had more contact with that sect of the Christian church than any others. (Partly because of where I live and because I'm concerned with the direction much of the teachings of fund. ministers could have on our society.) I don't think it would be limited to just fundamentalists, but it might have more of an effect on these sects than others due to the more conservative viewpoint they take of religion. I frankly think it would be difficult to rationalize the existance of ETs in light of Christianity, especially fundamentalists. It's been a while since I did any real studying of the Bible, but I can't think of any passage which could be used directly to support the existance of ETs. However, this isn't to say that ministers couldn't come up with some way to rationalize it. I haven't had time to dig into anything with John Lear's statement. Some of it matches statements I have read for at least ten years. Others I don't quite know what to think of. That ETs would have created Christ is something that I can't see any purpose behind unless they also managed to 'create ' much of the New Testament, and the second coming would be some sort of means of manipulating humans. (Egad, I can just imagine the reaction one woman I know would have to that last statement.) But then, if that were a plan, why spill the beans? Even accidentally? Yes, proof of the existence of ETs could create mass confusion, at least for a while. But humans are often illogical, and the most illogical things could happen under such circumstances. At any rate, I don't know as definite proof will ever be obtained without someone ' 'in the know' going public in such a way as not to be proved wrong. JOhn *** There is a reply: 134181 *** More *** #: 134181 S10/Paranormal Issues 14-Feb-88 17:11:53 Sb: #134103-#Controversy Fm: Tom Mickus 76650,1021 To: John Aultman 72716,2731 Personally, the only way Fundamentalists could rationalize the existence of ETs, is by putting them in the category of some kind of odf diabolical spawn of Satan. I have really little doubt about that kind of reaction. What they could do about it though is anothanother question. Perhaps if Robertson did get elected,... As far as the EBE claim that they "created Christ", it seems significant that they would mention that, but to what end? As I've menmentioned in another thread on ParaNet.Alpha, I am in agreement with your observation that for them to reveal such a statement would seem on the surface to be a foolish move, provided unless they have some ulterior motive, or hidden agenda for saying such... Previously, I had put forth the idea that if the EBEs wanted to be less disruptive and threatening, and if they did want to manipulate uus in some way..., that the best tactic would be to use the Christ angle to their adbvantage by using the promise of a 2nd Coming to their own purposes. For instance,to paraphrase, they could come back from the clouds in glory with their "holographic" Christ and h his "angelic host" (...the EBEs) and end up ruling the world via use of their Christ in a fashion similar to that of "the Wizard of Oz" They could dazzle us with their apparently superior technology, and end up bringing in "the blessed millenium" with a new era of peapeace, love, etc... Why on earth would they want to destroy the Christian "myth" of Jesus when it could so obviously work to their advantage. You'd think the timing would be right on, since a lot of Christians are looking towards a 2nd Coming. In addition, it could fit in not to difficutly one would think with both the Jewish and Muslim messianic expectations. But..., perhaps the EBEs do have a different game plan. I have yet to hear a logical one though. The genetic deficiency is interesting... , yet not wholly satisfying an answer. There just has to be more to it. I', m still confused as to exactly what is the Power relationship betwbetween US and THEM. I mean, if they have superior technology, then why don't they just cut this charade and mmove in? And if *** There is a reply: 134182 *** More *** #: 134182 S10/Paranormal Issues 14-Feb-88 17:19:53 Sb: #134181-Controversy Fm: Tom Mickus 76650,1021 To: Tom Mickus 76650,1021 (X) ...And if we are holding an alien captive, working frantically on SDI, and other activities apparently in opposition to the EBE's interests, why can't they stop us? Obviously they know what is going on (or maybe that isn't so obvious...), and can only operate iin our sphere with limitations. What exactly are these limitations anyway? Are they working to overcome them? Are we in a race of sosorts to see who can come out on top first?I along with others are still awaiting answers... -Tom *** More *** #: 134014 S10/Paranormal Issues 12-Feb-88 22:00:16 Sb: #133631-#Controversy Fm: Doug Roberts 76510,3430 To: Ted Markley 76067,3777 (X) It would be a devastating revelation. The evangelical Christian theology and Christianity in general leave no room for such a possibility. Those who adhere to a literal interpretaion of the Bible, hold that if there were other worlds, God would have mentioned it in the Bible. (Of course some say he/she did in some passages). If they suddenly were faced with such a reality, I think the results would be very shattering both in terms of reaction and long term mental well being. One does not have the basis of thier belief system take such a shock without a deep and negative effect. -Doug *** There is a reply: 134191 *** More *** #: 134191 S10/Paranormal Issues 14-Feb-88 21:06:47 Sb: #134014-#Controversy Fm: Scott Hauger 73057,706 To: Doug Roberts 76510,3430 (X) Doug: Whoa! I couldn't speak for Evamgelicals, but I consider myself a mainline Christian, and I rather suppose that there are millions of other intelligent creatures out there. For an interesting read on the topic, try James Blish's "A Case of Conscience," written about 20 years ago, as I recall. Scott *** There is a reply: 134316 *** More *** #: 134316 S10/Paranormal Issues 16-Feb-88 19:23:29 Sb: #134191-Controversy Fm: Doug Roberts 76510,3430 To: Scott Hauger 73057,706 Scott- Speaking as a rather liberal Southern Baptist, I too suppose that rationally thre are other worlds out there. But, many, many Christians, both mainline and evangelical reject the notion, at least in the light of biblical interpretation. As the fundamentalists take the bible literally word for word, they especially are prone to deny that God created any other worlds. I view the Bible too as the word of God, howerver I believe that it also must be viewed in terms of the times in which it was written. The notion of ET's, UFO's and planets in general was an unknown quantity, and God didn't see any need to refer to it. (Although there are several intriging passages that some say hint of it.) My main point was, though, that such a revelation as the existance of ET's would cause a great tumult and dysfunction among Christians in general and evangelicals in particular, especially if any revelations were directly contradictory to doctorine. -Doug *** More *** #: 134114 S10/Paranormal Issues 13-Feb-88 23:28:33 Sb: #Controversy Fm: Jim 73405,1357 To: Ted Markley 76067,3777 (X) I think it would be a very intersting discussion. I think one of th problems that the government undoubtably has considered (if we accept the original premise) is that there would very likely be a very large number of people who would want to "do the little critters in" no matter what it takes. That may well be why the government took so long in deciding to "come clean" on the issue. It would be a very emotional subject for many (all?) and political carears might well hinge on whether or not the officer holder or seeker ran on a "kill the critters" platform.Much like today where in many areas it is impossible to get elected unless you are pro defense. *** There is a reply: 134227 *** More *** #: 134227 S10/Paranormal Issues 15-Feb-88 12:29:55 Sb: #134114-#Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: Jim 73405,1357 I like that "Kill-the-Critter" platform! Thats an angle I hadn't thought of. Obviously, there would be emotions that would run very strongly in that direction. Perhaps we would see a return to the days of slinging a gun at your side. If you can believe what John Lear says and what Budd Hopkins implies (with regard to the ability\ of the EBE's to bamboozle us) a whole indusrty would emerge to design build and sell EBE detectors, shields, weapons etc. I can just see it now " Coat Your Roof with the NEW and IMPROVED little grey men REFLECTIVE atomic paint!" *** There is a reply: 134239 *** More *** #: 134239 S10/Paranormal Issues 15-Feb-88 14:35:30 Sb: #134227-#Controversy Fm: Michelle & Charles 76701,11 To: Ted Markley 76067,3777 (X) Actually, the idea of an EBE detector and defense isn't just for crackpots and quick-buck artists. In the reports of most UFO sightings, there is some affect the UFO has on the environment, whether it be jamming of radio, nervousness of animals, etc. I think if we carefully limit our assumptions about how their physics and engineering works we might be able to make some headway on their technology. If, for example, we were able to analyze the lights from a UFO, we would be able to better understand the source of that light. If it turns out that UFOs always produce some amounts of radio-frequency interference, we might be able to come up with a UFO "radio-fingerprint" that would allow for better detection and verification. I'm actually somewhat disappointed that most of the literature seems so passive in response to UFOs -- content to analyze data that falls into researcher's laps but unable or unwilling to go collect useful data. That there is so little hard data seems to be the biggest argument against UFOs being bona fide creations of non-human intelligence.... -- charles *** There are replies: 134319, 134320 *** More *** #: 134319 S10/Paranormal Issues 16-Feb-88 21:14:05 Sb: #134239-Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: Michelle & Charles 76701,11 I am glad you feel that way! You have played straight man to a pet peeve of mine. Most (but not all) UFO investigations have been reportorial in nature. Reporting on who saw what, where it happened etc. etc. The brave will even speculate on WHY. While I do not agree with all that John Lear has presented, he has had the courage to speak up with a hypothesis. I recently conducted (you know because you were there) a CO with John, and I was proud of the way our CO attendants conducted themselves. There was ample opportunity for cheap shots and ridicule but there was none. (You could take a lesson Phil Klass). Back to the pet peeve. I have been around electronics long enough to know that physical objects can be detected. Some may require expensive, sensitive equipment but none the less they can be fabricated. I, for one, would like to see a proactive group focus it's attention on, more positive action. For example, Whitley Strieber mentions in several interviews he has a plethora of video equipment and cameras "just waiting" to catch the EBE (if I may borrow a presumptuous term) in action. He then commiserates that when "they arrive" he never has enough will to hit the "start button." Well, hasn't anyone heard of "Slo-Scan" TV. Let a frame-by-frame video recorder run all night, grabbing snatches of his room on tape. Come on! Let's use a little imagination! . [continued...] *** More *** #: 134320 S10/Paranormal Issues 16-Feb-88 21:17:29 Sb: #134239-Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: Michelle & Charles 76701,11 [...Continued] . Charles, GREAT! Let's aggressively go after the hard data. Let trap the little SOB's in the act! We know where they go. They monitor Whitley, they harass Kathy Davis and (according to Budd Hopkins) 137 documented others poor souls! . [Getting off the soap box - and getting really serious for a moment] You're right Charles, why all the passivity? Where's the adventurous group. Who will join the Budd Hopkins' of the world and get off their duff and ACT. . Well, maybe I'm one. We'll see. . Okay, what do the rest of you have to say?!? y somewhat disappointed that most of the literature seems so passive in response to UFOs -- content to analyze data that falls into researcher's laps but unable or unwilling to go collect useful data. That there is so little hard data seems to be the biggest argument against UFOs being bona fide creations of non-human intelligence.... -- charles *** There are replies: 134319, 134320 *** More *** #: 134319 S10/Paranormal Issues 16-Feb-88 21:14:05 Sb: #134239-Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: Michelle & Charles 76701,11 I am glad you feel that way! You have played straight man to a pet peeve of mine. Most (but not all) UFO investigations have been reportorial in nature. Reporting on who saw what, where it happened etc. etc. The brave will even speculate on WHY. While I do not agree with all that John Lear has presented, he has had the courage to speak up with a hypothesis. I recently conducted (you know because you were there) a CO with John, and I was proud of the way our CO attendants conducted themselves. There was ample opportunity for cheap shots and ridicule but there was none. (You could take a lesson Phil Klass). Back to the pet peeve. I have been around electronics long enough to know that physical objects can be detected. Some may require expensive, sensitive equipment but none the less they can be fabricated. I, for one, would like to see a proactive group focus it's attention on, more positive action. For example, Whitley Strieber mentions in several interviews he has a plethora of video equipment and cameras "just waiting" to catch the EBE (if I may borrow a presumptuous term) in action. He then commiserates that when "they arrive" he never has enough will to hit the "start button." Well, hasn't anyone heard of "Slo-Scan" TV. Let a frame-by-frame video recorder run all night, grabbing snatches of his room on tape. Come on! Let's use a little imagination! . [continued...] *** More *** #: 134320 S10/Paranormal Issues 16-Feb-88 21:17:29 Sb: #134239-Controversy Fm: Ted Markley 76067,3777 To: Michelle & Charles 76701,11 [...Continued] . Charles, GREAT! Let's aggressively go after the hard data. Let trap the little SOB's in the act! We know where they go. They monitor Whitley, they harass Kathy Davis and (according to Budd Hopkins) 137 documented others poor souls! . [Getting off the soap box - and getting really serious for a moment] You're right Charles, why all the passivity? Where's the adventurous group. Who will join the Budd Hopkins' of the world and get off their duff and ACT. . Well, maybe I'm one. We'll see. . Okay, what do the rest of you have to say?!? ********************************************** * THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo * **********************************************