It's an interesting "few glasses of wine" discussion topic; one of the things I love about the Internet, it's like that great cocktail party (or beer keg or college pot smoking session - pick your social lubricant) discussion, but at any time and any place and without the puking or hallucinations... well, youtubepoop nonwithstanding :P I want to believe in Many Worlds or Copenhagen - either one would be quite nice.* But here's where I think an example of the sticky thing is: optical illusions. In particular, the diagonal line. As humans, we find quantizing the / into x + y particularly confounding; a2 + b2 = c2... or in an opposite direction, square root of 2 - a never-ending ax-cut into the number system itself that pushes fractions deeper and deeper into the abyss with no end in sight. Or Pi - the attempt to cut a circle and turn it into a line and coming up with this number that makes us go "woah". And I believe it is a fundamental limitation of human perception that extends and becomes deeply embedded into our way of thinking in so many ways. Why do I mention optical illusions?* Look how easily our visual system is confused by the wireframe 3D box.* It's just a hexagon with lines through it; and yet it appears to jump out and push back simultaneously; our visual system can't process it.* No matter how we retrain ourselves, for at least a brief moment, it works. We are mystified by examples of purely 3 dimensions.* Cantor's Sets leading to infinities of different kinds; running that diagonal - easily resolvable by flipping the set "up" into a 3rd dimension instead of a grid; the infinity is perfectly containable in a higher dimension. But we're mystified by it.* It goes someplace that seems improbable... because it's something we can't visualize with our mental systems entirely well... and this lack of ability based on our biological limitations extends into the very theories we use to describe the Universe. I'm not against many worlds, or wave-particle duality - or any stories that fuel the human imagination and take us to fantastic places - and systems that describe such fantastic places in detail; whether it be through literature or through mathematics... or art.. or music or movies. And I'm not discounting that numbers are practical; not at all; but I don't believe the Universe is mathematical; rather the system of mathematics describes the Universe very well; to a greater and greater degree of precision. But, to steal from a Buddhist concept (I'm not Buddhist but I like some of their stuff): do not mistake the finger that points to the moon for the moon itself. It's a tool; useful; practical; we're going to continue to make amazing things by it.* But I don't think its necessary to believe that numbers have an existence beyond the humans that use them, in order to continue doing what we do with numbers. I don't know if this makes any sense or if it's just babble :P