Points and Lines are Fictional things, yet we depend on them for everything it seems. Thoughts? [1]Like * * [2]Share * [3]Massimo Melli likes this. * [4][IMG] [5]William Kuch They may be fiction, they may be real (exist tangibly). There's no way to know. If you proceed as if they exist in nature you'll probably do just fine. And if you convince yourself that they are just models which for whatever reason coincidentally work properly for whatever unknown reason ... you will also be fine, just fine. There's no way to know. This not knowing is complicated by the fact that 'certainly fictional' and 'probably fictional' suffer the same issue, and as well 'certainly tangible' and 'probably tangible' also suffers the exact same problem. Amazingly these ambiguities are not really a problem but a solution, they only look like a problem. [6]13 hrs * [7]Unlike * [8]1 * [9][IMG] [10]Kenneth Udut [11]William Kuchwholeheartedly agreed. Ambiguity is the answer. Having alternatives to "I don't know" (combined with our seemingly built-in desire for making patterns - ie - "drawing lines") feels comforting, as does agreement.. engages whatever brain/body chemicals there are that reduce that awkward ambigious feeling because, well, someone *else's* mental machinery of thoughts is running similarly to one's own [12]12 hrs * [13]Like * [14]1 * [15][IMG] [16]Kenneth Udut [17]William Kuch I like analogizing to machines and being the hamster in the wheel that's turning it frantically while also taking orders from the fast inner machinery and the outer machinery (people, environment, body, etc) as well. Poor hamster. [18]12 hrs * [19]Like * [20]1 * [21][IMG] [22]William Kuch The only reason Relativity works properly is because of ambiguity. Equivalence is just very slightly ambiguous, and so its perfectly adapted to nature. Ambiguity is a powerful thing. [23]12 hrs * [24]Unlike * [25]2 * [26][IMG] [27]Kenneth Udut [28]William Kuch Indeed. I love the ambiguity of numbers. Precision depends on human needs. When human needs grow, the precision grows and yet the goal seems to move further away. I don't mind attempts at precision in engineering because we like to build things for our use. We know how manipulate things like electrons and such rather grossly but effectively more or less, hence this lovely technological world that I'm glad to live in. I love the patterns of nature; our visual system seems to be designed to outline objects in one area, giving us perspective and knowing where one thing seems to stop and another thing begins... and another system that seems to fill in the colors and textures and such. But humans tend to be arrogant. We know a little something and think we know a lot more than we do. Excessive certainty can lead to so many troubles. It helps when applied properly but a heuristic (rule of thumb) becomes a stereotype (the nearly religious fascination with Occam's Razor among some people who claim to be anti-religious is maddening to me) - and when its applied to people... you end up with situations involving racial profiling and such... and lots of messes too numerous to count. Recognizing the ongoing fuzziness of the lines, depending on their veracity only as much as is necessary and not a drop more, would seem to be at least part of an answer I think. I dunno. [29]12 hrs * [30]Like * [31]2 *