and john - to finish off - you and me aren't like that - we're "nice guys" who do stupid things sometimes. Ppl like you're talking about don't understand genuine satisfaction - they understand, "I WON! I WON! YOU LOST!" -- some people don't feel like they won unless someone else loses. you 'n me don't care if everybody wins or nobody wins - 'cause it's just a game anyhow. (life is)] "