The more you talk, the less people listen. (Meg White) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: In his book 'Deep Survival' Laurence Gonzales talks at one point about one of the factors that does in young US Navy pilots who are learning to land jet aircraft on the moving, swaying deck of an aircraft carrier at night. The factor that gets them in trouble - and kills a small percentage of them and nearly kills many more - is that despite consciously knowing they should not come in too low they subconsciously desire so much to be lower because lower means 'safety' (i.e., landing) on a deep emotional level that is quite difficult to override when you're under enormous stress. They know to not come in low, that being too low is the greatest danger to them, but their own emotional-subconscious drives them to do it anyway. Similar problems are at work undermining the majority of attempts at root-cause analysis of quality problems. People are so geared to find solutions, propose solutions, get on with fixing things that they will begin to work on 'fixing' something that if you ask them they will admit they do not know the cause and will even claim they are working on root-cause analysis. They will do this even as they are proposing fixes to try out or even in the middle of implementing them! They may even tell you that they know you have to get to a root cause before working on solutions or you have no real chance of solving the problem - even while they've been saying they know it's inadequate drying of the mold wash that's causing the loose sand defects in the castings and the molds need to be dried longer. It is so comfortable and comforting to be talking about solutions you can implement that we skip right on over finding the cause first. Finding and implementing solutions is rewarded. Putting out fires makes you a hero. Almost no one sees the value of finding the actual cause and finding a good permanent solution. NO CARRIER